Need advice on detaching

[LH19]

I'm going through Sandie's 37 rules once more, and realizing how many mistakes I have made over the past year. Here are some of my mistakes:

* Rule 1: For the first 7 months after DB, I followed Mort Fertel's marriage coaching program, and I pursued and pursued.

* Rule 2: Again followed Mort Fertel, and called every single day for 6 or 7 months. Left voicemails when she didn't answer (which is most of the time).

* Rule 3: I pointed to good points in marriage a few times. Most of the time, I avoided this, but I slipped a few times.

* Rule 5: Same as previous, I avoided most of the time to talk about the future, but I did at least 4 or 5 times over the first 7 months.

* Rule 6: I completely screwed that one up. I contacted many members of her family and tried to get them to help.

* Rule 8: Also completely screwed that one: I followed Mort Fertel again and got her tons of gifts over the first 7 months.

* Rule 9: Same thing: Mort Fertel advice and scheduled as many date nights as I could over the first 7 months.

* Rule 11: Tried to avoid saying ILY but I'm sure I still said it a few times for the first 7 months. I even said it again on our last conversation before I decided to start the no-contact back in February.

* Rule 15: I was not scarce with my words. I would talk on and on and on...

* Rule 16: I tried not to ask about her whereabouts, but I couldn't keep this for a long time when she kept giving me mixed messages. I would hold off for a couple of weeks and then lash out and ask her what's going on and why she was distant and out all the time.

* Rule 20: I tried but didn't always succeed to put on hold questions about marriage.
* Rule 23: Argued a few times about her new life choices.
* Rule 24: Wasn't patient enough. I followed Mort Fortel who advised never to give time and space.

... And son on... I am writing this to say I feel responsible for losing her. This is maybe more for newcomers, so that they learn to trust these rules. They're good rules.

So this Fertel clown makes money off teaching people to act like a creepy stalker. Unreal! No doubt it pushed her further away!

[ovrrnbw]

I would work on refining the goals so that they are more action oriented and easily measured.

What specifically will you do to GAL? Join a bowling league? Call friends to hang out twice a week? Go to the gym a certain number of days? Join a meetup group?

Same thing with improving yourself. What are the specific steps? For me it is weekly conversations with IC, doing CBT emotional reflections journaling, reading at least a chapter a day of one of the self-help or relationship books (there is a great list on this site, I think in the MLC forum.)

Here are some specific things I need to do for my second goal to GAL:
1. I need a new social life. I don't have one now. The only people I know are not the right people for me now for many reasons. So I need to expand my social network. I will do that by registering to activities where I can meet new people. I still need to figure out what and how.

2. I need to do the things that I used to enjoy and I need to take this seriously, meaning that I will put myself first. This will include personal travel time, going places I always wanted to visit, developing past hobbies, doing things I always wanted to do.

3. I need to become more active in life, going out and contributing to the community through volunteer work for example.

4. I need to take more risks. I will start new thrilling activities.

These are just examples

Go to meetup.Com for some GAL activities.

[kiro]

[EricC]

Why shouldn't I bring the fact that she left? What is the reason to stop paying for her bills if it's not because she left? And how should I let her know that I am paying for it? Someone on this post told me that I should let her know before stopping. Should I just text her and tell her I will stop paying your lease on such date without giving any reason?

IMO, she understands what she did and how it affects your R. I do not think you need a reason. If she asks why (and that is a big if), do you need to provide a reason? What do you think will happen if you do not give her one? Again, this is my opinion only. You should do what you think is right. However, do not fall in the trap of doing stuff because of how it convince your wife to come back.

You need to respect her decisions. If she does not want to work on your R, so be it. If she talks about how you treated her, accept and validate. Your general stance should be "I am ok if we split for good. I accept her decision to leave and won't try to pursue her. I will build my life with or without her. If she wants to work on our R, I will consider it. "

Agreed, but how about if it's important for the kids?

Stuff that concerns your children trumps everything else. Always do what needs to be done. Focus on being a good dad.That is actually a great way to GAL as well.

And how about my situation now where she asked me to go to mediation (through text message)? I texted back a long message stating that I will let her know when I'll be ready (and then listed 3 or points that probably sounded as angry and resentful). Should I text her back after consulting my lawyer and tell her I am ready for mediation or should I just wait until she asks about it again?

There are several things I want to point out about this:

1) You kind of answered your own question here.
2) You sound bitter with the "through text message" bit. I do not mean to criticize you. I just want to point out that this is something you want to get past.
3) Your long message back is pursuing. You are very wind up with this. Try to be brief and to the point. Do not show emotions (esp. negative). The less you tell her the better. Let her be the one looking for you.
4) Definitely consult a lawyer and have an action plan prepared. Make sure you explain to the lawyer what your goal is here - is it to save your marriage, or hurt the boys as little as possible, or else? Then do what the lawyer advises.
5) Just a thought: What would have happened if you had not replied? Or replied something vague like "I will think about it" and leave it at that?

[kiro]

Here is a quick update about my situation.

I spoke with a DB coach yesterday. She was great!

I sent a message to W yesterday afternoon asking her to call me back about mediation. I knew this was the only way I could have a phone conversation with her. She would not answer my phone or communicate otherwise. So, she called me back. (I was on a phone call already so told her I'll call her back. Not important but thought I'd mention it).

I called her back after I finished my phone. I told her:

"First of all, I am sorry for my message last week. I was upset, but it wasn't my business to ask about what you do in your personal life."

She agreed, then I continued:

"I understand that you want to go forward with mediation. It's fine with me really and I respect your decision. But you have had time to process all this. I probably need 2 or 3 months to prepare myself and be ready. I will let you know when I'm ready".

She first agreed and then she immediately realized the 3 months wait so she asked calmly

"2 or 3 months why?"

I repeated:

"Well I need to be ready and we need to be calm in order to be fair and reasonable toward each other. I'll let you know when I'm ready." Then I added "In the meantime, we don't need to communicate except about the kids. I will text you when I'm traveling so you can take the kids." And I finished with "That's it really". She agreed. So I ended the call immediately just saying "Ok bye". And I hang up.

The entire call about 1 minute It felt longer, but I checked on my phone and it actually took 1 minute not more...

I've been feeling good all day yesterday and today so far.

[kiro]

(This message contains good stuff for newbies to learn)

And for the record, I am still DBing if someone wants to know. But it has a whole different meaning for me at this stage. I am not waiting for her anymore and I am not expecting much. I am OK to move on with my life without her. I am working on accepting the following:
* my marriage is over
* my wife doesn't want to be with me
* my marriage before BD was not what I thought it was

The thing that helps me the most to be at peace, to forgive and not have resentment is the following process:
1. Stop blaming her or thinking that she did anything wrong
2. Being realistic about our marriage. It is true that for the past 10 years or so, she didn't seem happy. When we would fight, I would not make a big deal out of it, but she would and would say that our marriage wasn't working and that it was hopeless. A few times, she had mentioned that we should go see MC. So I admit that I hadn't paid enough attention to her feelings and what she was trying to tell me. I didn't get it back then. I am not blaming myself at all, but I am trying to understand her reality.
3. She was unhappy for some reason. I wasn't there for her. She became distant. I continued not to pay attention. Then, she stopped having the same feelings toward me. Then, she met someone else and wants to move on without me.
4. I accept and I'm OK with it now. Marriage is not a prison. If she doesn't want in, that's OK.

The above process answers all the questions I had. So my mind is now finally at peace. And it helps me accept her reality and not have resentment toward her. This is her life and she is free to do what she wants. I don't want to live with a woman who doesn't love me and feels forced to spend the rest of her life with me. I know I would have dealt differently if I felt the same way she felt for the past 10 years. I would have brought it up openly and would have sought help. But people are different and don't have the same approach to life.

And it helps me regain my self confidence. I know who I am. I have learned a lot from this experience. I am ready now to take on life much stronger and with love.

If my W ever wants back, I will have to consider it then. For the time being, I am open for reconciliation and I still love her (at least in my mind). I know that love is a choice and needs work to be maintained and needs to be nurtured. I will have 2 conditions at a minimum for a possible R one day:

1. a commitment to work on the relationship. I will not settle to reproducing the same marriage with the same mistakes. Or we would end up at the same place again.

2. I believe in God and I cannot live with a partner who doesn't have faith. Since her rebellion, she has said many things that make me question her faith. That would be a deal breaker.

That's it really. Wish me luck

[Dtrmned]

Good Luck in the journey!

[paco123]

Of all the posts I have read on this site, this last one of yours, kiro, resonates most strongly.

My wife walked away last February. It is clear to me now that she was deeply unhappy over the past 5 years (perhaps in ways that were not even clear to her). I, too, adhere to the two conditions you mentioned:
1 - commitment to work on the marriage;
2 - acknowledgement of the faith we once shared.

These two are inextricably linked and it is tragic to me (and to those who love us both) that, at least for now, my wife has lost sight of these.

Today is our 33rd anniversary of what is, at least to me (even in the darkest hours) a glorious marriage. To walk away from 33 years without even bothering to put in the work to save it is perhaps the most grievous tragedy of all.

[Cadet]

Of all the posts I have read on this site, this last one of yours, kiro, resonates most strongly.

My wife walked away last February. It is clear to me now that she was deeply unhappy over the past 5 years (perhaps in ways that were not even clear to her). I, too, adhere to the two conditions you mentioned:
1 - commitment to work on the marriage;
2 - acknowledgement of the faith we once shared.

These two are inextricably linked and it is tragic to me (and to those who love us both) that, at least for now, my wife has lost sight of these.

Today is our 33rd anniversary of what is, at least to me (even in the darkest hours) a glorious marriage. To walk away from 33 years without even bothering to put in the work to save it is perhaps the most grievous tragedy of all.

Paco123 the WAS is working with a different set of rules and thoughts.

The forces working on them are so great that they can not do anything but what you see.

When this force passes then maybe the fog will clear and they will be able to see again, in the mean time best to stay out of the way.

[kiro]

Of all the posts I have read on this site, this last one of yours, kiro, resonates most strongly.

My wife walked away last February. It is clear to me now that she was deeply unhappy over the past 5 years (perhaps in ways that were not even clear to her). I, too, adhere to the two conditions you mentioned:
1 - commitment to work on the marriage;
2 - acknowledgement of the faith we once shared.

These two are inextricably linked and it is tragic to me (and to those who love us both) that, at least for now, my wife has lost sight of these.

Today is our 33rd anniversary of what is, at least to me (even in the darkest hours) a glorious marriage. To walk away from 33 years without even bothering to put in the work to save it is perhaps the most grievous tragedy of all.

Paco, sorry to hear that about your situation.

I agree with Cadet.

Note that I have only experienced my situation, but I have read a lot about others. Everyone says that every situation is different. I see a lot of similarities between many of the stories, but the really important stuff is in the details. Humans are complicated beings, emotionally, spiritually, mentally, etc. And we all have different histories and teachings. This all comes into play to define our perceptions and how we make decisions. So it is very difficult to predict what your wife will do or why she did it.

I'm saying this also because until I am 100% done with my situation which could be in a few months or a few years (who knows?), I won't know what to make of it. And then, when I'm done, I'll only have 1 experience and 1 story to tell, either one of reconciliation or one of final separation. Everyone here on this forum and even the professional counselors have biases based on their perceptions and what they have experienced.

This being said, I've been struggling for the past 11 months with many questions such as the ones you're asking. Why? How? When? etc. And it was killing me. I couldn't understand and I needed answers. I think this was all part of denial. And this is why I wrote my last post, to let people on this forum know that what helped me find peace is to find clues of what was wrong in our marriage and what I haven't paid attention to in the past. That's it. I won't try to dig any deeper than that. The only purpose of doing that is to learn for the future.

Many of the other questions are futile at this point. Things like: How can she forget all the time we had together? How can she change so much? How can she talk like that about God? Why didn't she say anything? What is she thinking?

And blaming or thinking negatively about her is also useless and will only trigger bad feelings, bitterness, and resentment within you.

Did you ever think why people commit crimes, behave stupidly, or do whatever things that don't make any sense? Because they have a choice, and people can use it whatever way they want.

There are no guarantees in life. We can only control ourselves, and this is why God will judge each one individually. No one is accountable for someone else's actions. There are plenty of stories in Sacred Books about prophets/saints whose close relatives were a total mess. How is that possible? How can someone have so much faith, yet their son, daughter, father, mother, brother, sister, husband or wife have such different values? It's because we cannot control others. Everyone has free choice.

If you asked me a question such as "which is the best direction for me to go?" And I tell you, "here are the best directions to go and they're all equally good: either north, south, east, or west." Did I really tell you anything useful to let you make a good decision? Of course not.

Not to be disrespectful to anyone here on this forum, this is what people will advise you and most good counselors too (except the ones on the web who try to take advantage of desperate LBS). They'll all tell you that because each situation is unique, your W may either come back or she may decide to move on. Duh! so what do I do?

Well, the only logical and reasonable answer is then: Move on and be strong. Get ready for the worse because no one can predict the future.

If she ever comes back, you seem to know what's important to you. In the meantime, I suggest you work on becoming strong and free yourself of any bitterness. You can only achieve that by letting her go. It takes time, and a lot of it. If you're not there, keep trying. At some point, it clicks and you will be free.