This is awesome, Steve! Very happy for you. You are an inspiration and asset to this board. You have helped me and many others during these tough times. And I am sure that I speak for everyone when I say thank you very much. Keep up the good work and I wish you the best of luck...
Me: 38 W:31 Kids: S16(mine from previous R), D10, S9, S4 M: 10 years T:12 years BD:Jan 3, 2018 W moved out: Apr 13,2018 Filed for D: Jun 2018 D final: Sep 2019
Anyway, this is so much the woman I married! To see her transformation from where she was in December, to where she is now is incredible. Guys and gals, NEVER, as sandi says, NEVER give up. There is always hope. If you had asked me for the odds of us being where we are today, in July, in January, I would have told you there was less than a 10% chance of this happening.
NEVER give up. There is always hope.
This is amazing Steve, what most of us would not give to see the lost spouse in the being that WAS has become. You did the work and you are reaping the rewards now, I wish the best with your move and your MR 2.0.
Well we moved on Saturday. However, I have been moving since a week ago Sunday! LOL
I started out by taking all the garage and polebarn stuff to the new place. Then as the week went on, I started moving the stuff we had packed, and as my W packed stuff I'd move it too. Had a good start with some help of a friend and my dad.
Then Saturday we did the big move. It went well. Friends and family all worked hard and all the big stuff got moved. Still had some residual small stuff, so yesterday we went back and took a couple of more loads.
We are ALMOST done. LOL I will meet her at the old house tonight to get hopefully the last load. Though I still have the zero-turn at the old house to cut the grass. And there are a few more things we need to do before we put it on the market. But it is close.
But now for the update:
Last night taking the second load to the new house, we had to stop for gas. She was in one of our cars and I was in my truck. We pulled into pumps next to each other, and I went over to pay and pump her gas. She rolled her window down and said "Fill 'er up please!" I laughed and got both our gas pumps going. She then called me over to her window again.
She had tears in her eyes and she said she was having a rough time. That she felt like she keeps "leaving her home". (She gets sentimental every time she moves. I moved her twice before we got married and she got emotional both times.) I rubbed her back and asked her if she wanted me to move us back, (half joking), and she said no. But that she was just feeling homesick. We talked a little about it last night, and how with 19 years in our first MH, we had a lot of good memories.
This morning I noticed that when we went to the new house on Saturday to unload the trailer, she stayed behind to keep packing. She did several private videos on the singing app with her singing to sentimental songs (like Remember When by Alan Jackson), while filming the house and the property. She woke up as I was leaving for work and I hugged and kissed her and told her I loved the videos. I then offered to move us back if that's what she really wanted, but she said no.
Anyway, this is so much the woman I married! To see her transformation from where she was in December, to where she is now is incredible. Guys and gals, NEVER, as sandi says, NEVER give up. There is always hope. If you had asked me for the odds of us being where we are today, in July, in January, I would have told you there was less than a 10% chance of this happening.
What are you going to do differently than you did in your past relationship, to make sure that things don't get stale and you find yourself right back here in a few months ??
How can you show her that you appreciate her, and her willingness to communicate with you ???
Cause while I understand where you are now, there is still an undertone of YOU being the caretaker of her and her feelings...
It Didn't Start On Bomb Day a DBing Dissertation by Steve85
I thought I would post a treatise on a phenomenon so many DB newbies struggle with. And that is the thought or idea that their sitch began on BD.
This is patently false. The truth is that for most WAWs (and presumably WAHs though they tend to be a bit more impulsive) the sitch started long before BD. Most anti-divorce experts suggest that for most WAWs the exit strategy started about 2 years prior to BD. (Sitches can be different, for instance in my sitch I initiated BD, so it happened a bit quicker than in most sitches.)
MWD describes this as the point the WAW gave up on the MR. But she doesn't tell her H. Instead she just stops trying and that manifests in her stopping complaining. MWD points out that this is exactly what the STB LBH was wanting all alone, so he feels great. She isn't nagging him about how bad of a H he is anymore, or how bad their M is. He thinks "she's finally happy!"
Oh contraire!
In fact, she is more miserable than ever because now she feels stuck. From the day she gives up she is now planning her exit strategy. Most WAWs, at that early point, do not even know what the strategy is yet, but just that they are on the lookout for finding the quickest, easiest, least painful way to exit.
This up to 2 year period is a very dangerous time for the WAW. This is when she is most susceptible to an OM's charms. When you feel stuck, and you no longer feel in love with your H, OM, just about any OM that shows interest, seems like a better option. And this is why for the WAW EAs and PAs are so common. A lot of newbies think, "her EA/PA led her to being a WAW." In reality, it was her being in a walkaway mindset that led to her EA/PA.
The key takeaway from this is that she has been in this mindset for up to 2 years! It is usually due to laziness, or denial, or a combination of the two that the LBH spouse completely misses the fact that his W is no longer trying. This is also why on BD a WAW will often claim that they tried to tell their H how unhappy they were for years but that the LBH just wouldn't listen. He immediately thinks back to the up to two years prior and insists she never said anything! In reality, she tried for a longtime prior to finally giving up. This is where this dichotomy often occurs. She is talking about PRIOR to giving up, he is thinking about the 2 years leading up to BD where she never complained. They are both right, in a way.
Missing The Warning Signs
During this up to two year giving up period, the STB LBH misses a lot of warning signs. I remember in my sitch, almost exactly a year before BD, I was in the kitchen with my W. I was complaining about how dirty the floor was. And the dishes piled in the sink. She looked at me and said "We should never have gotten married."
Things had been so good for the weeks leading up to that, other than my complaining about the lack of housework she was doing, that I blew it off. She waved a huge red flag in my face, and I just laughed it off. I put it out of my head even, until a year later, when BD hit.
Maybe you can look back at the weeks, months and even years that led up to your BD and think about the red flags you missed. The little comment here, or the rolling of the eyes there. Maybe she started spending more time alone in some activity in another part of house. Maybe she shutdown instead of engaging in disagreements. Maybe she got so far to the edge of your bed when you were in bed together that you thought there was no way she wouldn't fall out of it.
Red flags during this period are everywhere. And they get worse over time. Especially when an EA and/or PA start. And she gets secretive with her phone. She no longer undresses in front of you. Affection trickles down to barely a peck on the cheek or a side hug. And yet we STB LBHs are clueless. Blind to the red flags that are waving everywhere. Until finally BD.
BD Isn't The Beginning, It Is The Beginning Of The End
One of the biggest mistakes LBHs make immediately after BD is to start behaving in ways that we should have behaved long before BD. And this is why it is important to realize a simple truth: Your sitch did not begin on BD.
If you begin to behave as if BD is the beginning of your marital problems, you will be doomed to failure. Begging, pleading, pledging, promising, pursuing, being affectionate, opening doors for her, buying her gifts, hanging on her every word, following her around the house, waiting on her hand and foot, not complaining about lack of housework, speaking her love language, employing the love dare, kissing her hello, kissing her goodbye, trying to sit close to her, trying to put your arm around her, trying to hold her hand, trying to hug her, trying to snuggle in bed, cooking for her, taking her out on dates, taking her out to eat, cleaning up after her, doing the laundry, cleaning the kitchen, cleaning the bathrooms, vacuuming, sweeping, dusting........................................
None of that works after BD. All of that would have worked wonders 2 years prior to BD. It may have even worked a year before BD. Maybe even 6 months prior. But at some point before BD that ship sailed Usually it was after she was in the emotional or physical grips of an OM. But regardless, she is no longer open to physical touch, acts of service, words of encouragement, spending time with her, or any other act of pressure or pursuit.
Thinking BD is the start of your sitch is why DBing techniques seem counter-productive to newbies. After all, if you feel in your gut that BD is the first time you are awakened to the problems in your MR, then the intuitive thing to do is the list above.
The problem is that you have to see it from her perspective. She gave up on you. She started moving on from you emotionally and physically. She finally got to the point where she was ready to drop the bomb on you. Where she tells you she is done, ILYBIANILWY, that she needs space. And the LBH's first instinct to smother her with the above list of things, and many more pursuits and pressures not listed there.
It is like trying to climb into a cage with an animal that is already too big for the cage. The outcome of that is going to just be bad.
If you view post-BD from the perspective that she has been done with the MR for up two years prior to BD then it becomes easier to realize that the above list isn't going to work. And once a LBH comes to that realization they also realize that they have to try a different approach.
Those that struggle with detachment the most are those that cannot or will not see that perspective. They are determined to love, pursue, date, slave, and convince her to change her mind. But none of that will work. Truly detaching, letting her go, and giving her the space she asked for is the only chance the LBH really has of potentially turning his sitch around. To pursue and pressure is to push her out of the MR, into a D, and potentially into the arms of the OM.
Your sitch started up to two years prior to BD. She has been coming to terms with ending your M, breaking her vows, giving up on her core beliefs and values, causing you and others pain, and completely turning lives on their heads for months, if not years. The time for words, and pursuit and pressure are over. After BD the only action the LBH can take is to step aside, and let her go. To work on themselves through GAL and 180s. Become the person and a spouse only a fool would leave. And maybe, just maybe, the WAW will at some point take notice, change their mind, and return to a new and improved MR.
Fix your perspective to one of BD NOT being the beginning, and maybe it won't be the beginning of the end.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Fix your perspective to one of BD NOT being the beginning, and maybe it won't be the beginning of the end.
This post was crazy good and insightful. Thanks for posting this Steve!
W 31(WW) Me 32 Married 7 years together 12 1 kid - 1.5 yr old S BD 23/05/2018 Separated since BD I moved out 20/06/2018 for my own sanity OM or just fling? Not sure...
100% agree that BD is just the moment when the iceberg pokes above the surface of the water. It has been forming for a long while, even if we can't see it. To us it looks like it suddenly appeared out of nowhere as it upends our lives and leaves us shipwrecked, but it has certainly been growing and growing.
I am still torn about the approach on this board. For the vast majority of us there is simply no hope of R. I feel like there is a lot of false hope encouraged. There are certainly some folks on here who are ready to give us 2x4s, but so much of the conversation on here is focused on R. It seems like 90% of the conversation is about R which occurs in less than 10% of the sitches. Now, most of us, myself included, were simply not ready to hear that when we first got here, nor for a long time afterward. The part of DB that is effective is the community support, and the focus on self-improvement. It really has very little to do with saving Rs and all about saving LBSs. We all want to hear about the stories of successful Rs but that is delusional and misguided. I feel like a lot of this just encourages us to hold onto false dreams and not let go completely. I am incredibly happy for you and for anyone else who is able to work towards towards R, but I don't know that reading them encourages the detachment that so many of us need.
W 34 Me 42 Married 7 years together 8 0 kids 1 beloved dog BD 4/6/2018 I moved out 4/7/2018 I moved back in alone 8/05/2018 I file 3/06/2019 D official 5/7/2019
Thanks Bewas, bhappy, and Davide. This has been ruminating in my skull for a couple of weeks now.
Davide, I get your point. However, it IS possible to detach but still have hope. They are not mutually exclusive.
Look at sandi's rules.
Almost everyone of them has to do with detachment. And then there is #33.
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
There is always hope. Even after a D is final. There are cases of the WAS coming back to the LBS. Often times the LBS is no longer open to R at that point, but it has happened.
If you truly feel there is no hope then it behooves you to take the bull by the horn and follow through on the D, there is no point in waiting if you don't even have a sliver of hope.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Well explained Steve- this may also be why WAW/WW are so far ahead in the grieving process. While they have had 2 years to process and grieve -we are left behind to pick up pieces. Just my 2 cents.
M51 w50 T-20Yrs M-16Yrs S15- mad at W for not trying and giving up 1 Awesum dog BD 10/31/17 separate rooms 02/08/18 wife moved out 05/17/18
