Can I really do this #4

[Dtrmned]

Thanks Arsh and Steve.
The get together would be good. My kids would be the only ones that aren't adults now so they wouldn't have anyone to "play" with, but they do enjoy it. I just know that these are professional, educated and people that notice and they will notice that my W isn't wearing her rings. You really couldn't miss the engagement ring. I will think on that and plan accordingly. I do need to get them out regardless and do something.

And yes, I do realize that my W is not who she was. That she has made her decision and any change will take time and will not happen overnight. I enjoyed us reading together for a short time yesterday in the same room, but I did make it a point that I closed my book an left the room and did some other things after awhile. Again, not a puppy dog and not a doormat. This road to R or D is definitely confusing. If I didn't have the GAL, 180's and detachment I would drive myself crazy. I will be consistent. I know I will not be perfect and will not persecute myself when I make a mistake or a wrong decision. I will get up, dust myself off, realize what I did and make the proper correction to move forward. Each day I feel myself get stronger. There are definitely some days and parts of days that I am so in my head and distraught that it feels like I am falling apart. I don't let her see this, hear this or send any type of communication regarding this. She sees me for who I am. The spouse only a fool would leave.

I am the lighthouse. I am the rock for my family. I love the small signs but do know that even if there is one step forward, that tomorrow could be 5 steps back. I love this board and the support it gives. Regardless of how our MR works out I know that I have done everything within my power to give us a path to an amazing MR.

[sandi2]

The way I see it, you are making the family activities more of a stumbling block than necessary. Your friends know about her health issues, right? So, why can't you and the kids plan to attend the barbecue and fireworks......regardless of your W's decision to go? You are making everything about her. Just like the weekend you wanted to work in the yard and make it a family activity. It became pursuit b/c your motive was all about getting her involved. It ended with you doing nothing with the kids.

It becomes pursuit to her when/if she feels emotionally pressured by you. She wants the freedom to make her own choice whether or not to participate. Stop making everything about her. Make it about the rest of your family (you and the kids).

It reminds me of a person who orders a sweet treat with whip cream on top. If a cherry is not on the whip cream, he complains and doesn't enjoy the rest of the goodie b/c his mind is on the cherry that was not included...or, he might not eat the treat at all. Why deny yourself and your kids the activity just b/c of her? Why must everything hinge on her? If she participates.......fine. If she doesn't participate.......fine.

[Dtrmned]

Sandi. You are 100% correct.
I am still totally in love with her. I am doing my best to detach, but I see her walk into a room, any room, sweat pants, no make up, hair not done and I see my partner, my wife, the mother of my children and my heart leaps and then plunges all at once. I'm going to let go for a moment since I'm not with her and can share here openly. I feel her all the way through to my soul. I wish I could just turn it off, but I can't. She sees the little things, the db'ing, I am just so unsure as to how this ends up. I am so scared for all of us for our futures. I am a mature adult human being, but this is just so foreign territory to me I don't know how to handle it. We trusted each other with everything. We have children together. We have a family. So what if we had some turmoil. Everyone does. We have a love like I have never felt before in my life. Again, I wish I could turn it off. I am doing my best. I want to just say "ok" and make plans. I don't want our children to suffer through this even though I know they already are. Am I just selfish for hanging on? Would it just be better if I just pulled the plug, ended it so they could move on? I just don't know. AND I don't know if I am strong enough to do that. We have been together the majority of both of our adult lives. I know bad things happen out there. Life [censored] sometimes. I just always thought that our vows meant something and no matter what we would always be there for one another.

So, in my moment of weakness here in sharing, I hope you are as straight forward as you have always been in your response. I read the books, read the posts, know what I am supposed to do. Some days, some moments are easier than others. My S last night asked again (almost daily now) when we are going to go on vacation this summer and where we are going. How do I tell him that right now we can't go and we can't afford it. He doesn't understand. He just wants his family to go and have fun. My W, I'm sure, has had the same question posed to her and I have no idea how she responds.

So forgive my moment of weakness as I take a moment and change the lightbulb in the lighthouse. All of this just stinks. I wish it on no one. I am so thankful for everyone here as somedays you are all I have.

[sandi2]

Nobody is telling you to shut off your love. I don't think I've ever told a LBH to stop loving his W.

I want to just say "ok" and make plans. I don't want our children to suffer through this even though I know they already are.

Your children need you to have fun (not necessarily entertainment), whether your W is involved or not. Okay, so you have this great love for her. Don't you think every LBH feels the same way? The greater your fear of losing her....the greater you feel love. It's enmeshed and you can't seem to separate the two. If you read very many posts from LBH's that's just arrived, I think you'll see how they all have the most beautiful woman in the world, and how their love is the greatest of the century. And the more they fear losing her, the more intense these emotions become.

Am I just selfish for hanging on? Would it just be better if I just pulled the plug, ended it so they could move on? I just don't know. AND I don't know if I am strong enough to do that. We have been together the majority of both of our adult lives. I know bad things happen out there. Life [censored] sometimes. I just always thought that our vows meant something and no matter what we would always be there for one another.

Selfish? Why are you thinking this way today? What does this have to do with family activities?

So, in my moment of weakness here in sharing, I hope you are as straight forward as you have always been in your response. I read the books, read the posts, know what I am supposed to do. Some days, some moments are easier than others. My S last night asked again (almost daily now) when we are going to go on vacation this summer and where we are going. How do I tell him that right now we can't go and we can't afford it. He doesn't understand.

Okay, so I'll share some of my thoughts. Maybe you won't see any connection or how it applies to your sitch. I grew up hearing my parents tell me they could not afford something I wanted. I had two pair of shoes per year, barely had five changes of clothes to last out the school week, and never received gifts except on my birthday and at Christmastime. (And oh boy, I remember not getting what I wanted for Christmas!) As you may have guessed, we never had a vacation trip. That's not to say we did not have good times. We were poor, but we had family fun in ways that did not depend upon money. I see so many young families today that don't know how to create fun. They think it has to be bought. They confuse fun with entertainment....which usually requires money. They think they have to take the kids to a theme park, or whatever. I also see them going into deep debt, rather than telling them there will be no vacation.

You are not the first, nor the last, that has worried about not giving their family a summer vacation trip. Somehow, the man ties that in with how he measures as a man. At least, that's the impression I get. For the record, I have had one hero during my lifetime. It was my father. Yes, the same man who could barely provide the necessities of life for his family. I'll just leave it at that, instead of going into a long story about him.

When my father passed away, the extended family started having Christmas celebration at my house. We eat a huge meal and then play games till time to open gifts. These old games are ones that I remember playing as a child at my grandparents. Nothing is purchased to play them. Everyone has so much fun, and laughs till they cry. The kids love it, b/c nobody plays these old games anymore. I'm just saying that those memories cost nothing but participation.

Your kids may be disappointed, if they are used to having a nice trip every summer. However, it's not going to leave an emotional scar for you to tell them you can't afford a vacation trip. Just be truthful with your son, and stop putting off telling him. Tell him in an age appropriate way that he understands...and that you are disappointed and it hurts to tell him that there is not enough money for a vacation trip this summer. Let him feel whatever he feels. It's part of growing up, JS.

You don't like being the bad guy. Nobody does, and in reality, you aren't a bad guy just b/c you can't afford a vacation for the family. Kids may not know how to process disappointment, but they have to learn. He may be more able to cope if you will be honest and open with him about it, instead of trying to prolong it b/c you dread telling him. To me, it's worse by letting him assume the family is still going on a trip. Just find a time when he is calm, and softy explain to him.

Not being able to afford a nice vacation, doesn't mean you failed at being a good parent. Just as it doesn't mean your MR is in trouble b/c you failed at being a good spouse.

Yes, as parents it hurts to see our children disappointed, but I am concerned about your thinking at the moment. This all seems emotionally enmeshed with your feelings about the sitch in your M.

I am becoming concerned about your health, JS. This pressure is building in you, and a lot of it could be prevented. Staying focused on positive things, and what you can control....while letting go of what you can't control. Staying balanced in your thinking....is important to not having a nervous breakdown. Maybe I see more hope in your sitch than you do, IDK. I just feel you bring a lot of emotional stress by how you think.

So forgive my moment of weakness as I take a moment and change the lightbulb in the lighthouse.

It's okay.

Now, did you make a decision in what to do for the 4th, or does it hinge on your W?

[arsh18]

JS, Sandi has taken you under her wing, so the most I can offer you is my support and prayers. Hope you had a good 4th with family without WW. About not affording the vacations, I grew up in southeast Asia and had conservative hard working parents. Although our vacations were never fancy the memories I have are of simpler and happy times in the ordinary places my parents could take us to. It is not the destination it is what you do with the time that counts for the children. Plan whatever outing you can well, put your heart into it, it will help kids make memories that will last a life time.

[Dtrmned]

Good Morning and I hope you all had a great 4th holiday!

After my"venting" which made me feel a ton better just to get it out, I stayed off of this site until this morning. I wanted to make sure I wasn't getting too dependent on the site. I also wanted to be sure I wasn't dwelling too much on my sitch. Sandi, it seems you can see into my mind and know what I am thinking. I didn't create this situation, but I do put a lot of pressure on myself with how it will work out. I have, for good or bad, always had the way of looking into and playing out plans for the future far ahead of time. Looking at a business, forecasting for the next 3-5-7 years and beyond, seeing what will happen if/when/how this will occur, etc. Sometimes I can work through an issue overnight and "see" the outcome based on the choices before me. I am not clairvoyant. I don't believe I am delusional. Everyone who knows me either well or even someone I recently came into contact would probably say that I am stable, consistent, and reliable of which I am and have been my entire life. I go to work everyday (just like everyone else) and make it happen in that way. I am outgoing, personable, likeable and have had friends that I still speak to from high school, college and beyond. As far as what I did for yesterday, I went to the couples party that my family has attended probably for 10 of the last 14 years. I took my kids. My W was feeling very bad healthwise and had stated that she wasn't going anywhere. The kids and I went. My D had a teenager issue (nothing to do with me, just teenage drama) and I took her home early prior to the fireworks starting so it kind of just ended up being my son and I, but we had fun, enjoyed the evening. My W, I think, enjoyed the time alone. We were very close so I called prior to running my D home to let her know that I was bringing her. My son and I and our friends watched fireworks, ate, drank and had fun. Do I dwell on my situation? Unfortunately I can honestly say it is the main focus of my life. I would and I try each and every moment to "put it out of my mind" and remember that time is my friend. I can only dream that my mind would allow me that. I am being more honest on this board than I believe I ever have in my life outside of prior to the BD from my W. If, If , If.... It is all that I think about. I, I , I... it seems that all I speak about sometimes is myself and that is why I feel "selfish". My focus is totally on my MR and it seems that if I could just detach better, give it time, that things would have the possibility of working out. WHY do I say that? W has done nothing to move this forward. Over the last 2 days, we have connected and talked (briefly) about things. She seems to be interested in making sure I am attracted to her. I know she is testing my boundaries. She had an issue with a friend (that I am so NOT a fan of) that happened and I totally supported both her and her friend through the initial part of this issue. I believe she thought I was going to either go "off" or just dismiss the issue entirely. Instead, I was truly myself. Caring, honest, sincere and interested both in her friend's problem and her feelings towards it. She seemed taken aback a little by this. I took it as a sign, not of one of my 180's, but that my true self was showing through in a time of crisis.

So what has happened in the last 48 hours outside of the holiday fun?

My D and I made a dinner together, have plans to hang out this weekend and I am working and paying attention to her needs much more.

My S is AWESOME! I just need to focus on his needs a little more. As you stated Sandi, it doesn't have to cost money to make the memory. We have started playing board games together and watching more movies together. I absolutely recognize that it doesn't take money to make memories, it only takes quality time together no matter what you do!

W is still lost and confused. Nothing with regard to moving the D or S forward. In fact, we have been more cordial than ever. I don't read too much into that as I know that sometimes cordial means she may be making active plans. Just weird things that have connected us over the last couple of days. I know this will bring the boomerang effect and she will run away again soon prior to even thinking about our MR. I didn't sleep well last night, only about 2 hours so I was lying in bed tossing and turning most of the night. She moved around from time to time and several times she reached out, touched, held or was otherwise was in physical contact with me. I don't now what to read or think about this (again, my own mind is sometimes my worst enemy), but I felt it was a good sign. I have not mentioned it to her, nor will I.

Just to recap. My vent on Tuesday felt awesome to just get off of my chest. It helped me release and refocus for the last couple of days. I have a ton going on and I know that. Possible job change, possible relocation, possible S or D, so a bunch of fun going on!! I would normally be able to shake all of this off if my MR was good. The MR part has thrown a big curve ball into the mix. I am not going to deny that. It has rocked my entire world. BUT, it has knocked me down and I know that the only way to get back is to pick myself up, dust myself off and move forward. If we both decide to work on our MR then we can, but I do know that it is a major possibility that we will not work things out and I will find myself out there in the world without my W. Not a pretty picture to paint, but I know in my heart that my kids and I will be ok regardless of my W's decision.

Back at work and it will be a slow couple of days. I will get some productive things done, continue my GAL and look positively towards the future.

[sandi2]

Good post. Glad it helped to vent.

((hugs))

[Dtrmned]

Life is an adventure and always lately always something fun happening. What would generally be an amazing thing has me in a quandary.

I won a contest at work. I cannot take the cash equivalent as they just don't work that way but I won the following:

2 night stay at a very nice hotel ($300/night ish)
Dinner at the hotel restaurant (Probably about $300)
Couples massage (looked it up, with tax and tip about $500)

Total value is about $1500.

Question: In my current situation, do I present this to my wife? And if so, how do I do this?

Again, life is funny and looking forward to some interesting responses. And NO I am not interested in doing this by myself or in just sending my W for a couple of days off!!!

[AnotherStander]

I am still totally in love with her. I am doing my best to detach, but I see her walk into a room, any room, sweat pants, no make up, hair not done and I see my partner, my wife, the mother of my children and my heart leaps and then plunges all at once.

I was married 20 years, thought I would be married forever. I loved my ex but certainly didn't get all googly eyed when she walked into the room. Until BD. Then suddenly there was no woman more beautiful, more amazing, more perfect in every way. I don't know what's at work here and neither does science or the medical community, but I bet we will understand it better some day. It's some kind of chemical shift in the body and brain that triggers a change in a person when they get BD'd. What they previously took for granted now becomes a treasure they can't live without. I'm not saying not to love your wife, but I am saying what you are experiencing is not what you think it is. She's not the only woman in the world for you and you're not going to die without her. It takes time, but these agonizing feelings you have for her WILL dissipate and eventually go away. You will always love her just as I will always love my ex, but it's not the obsessive kind of emotions you're experiencing now, it's more like the way you love a family member.

I wish I could just turn it off, but I can't.

Yes, that too is completely normal to feel.

I am so scared for all of us for our futures.

Yes that's normal too. I was so worried and scared. How would we put the kids through college, how would I ever retire, what was going to happen to the house. I remember walking through the living room once and looking down and thinking "oh my God, that carpet is going to need to be replaced some day, how am I going to do that????" Just weird, stupid, crazy thoughts. My mind was running a thousand miles an hour, especially when I tried to go to sleep. It was HORRIBLE.

I am a mature adult human being, but this is just so foreign territory to me I don't know how to handle it.

Really that's what it all boils down to is fear of the unknown. You thought you knew how your life would play out and now you don't, and it scares you. Here's the thing though- your life was NEVER going to play out like you thought it was, it was an illusion you built. Life has a way of pooping all over our plans. Maybe it's a job loss, or a terminal illness, or a death, or loss of a spouse but when we get complacent then life has a way of popping up and saying "oh no no nooooo you are far too comfy and we are going to change things up!" All any of us can do is roll with it and make the best of it we can. I've seen people develop cancer and they are given a year to live and they curl up and start marking days off the calendar. And I've seen people hear that same news and immediately go about cramming the next 30 years of living into one and die with a smile on their face. What we do with our time here is a personal choice.

I've said this a few times before, maybe even in one of your threads, but BD, S and D are not the end of your book, they're the end of a chapter in your book. What happens in the next chapter is completely up to you.

We trusted each other with everything. We have children together. We have a family. So what if we had some turmoil. Everyone does.

Going back to the chemical changes I mentioned earlier, I feel that the same happens in WAS's. There is some internal physical change that happens, call it menopause or MLC or whatever but some shift happens that changes the way they view life, marriage and their spouse. It's the opposite of what happens to the LBS. In their case, it makes them want to run from everything and start a new life. It has nothing to do with the little bit of turmoil you had, or the fact that you didn't put the toilet seat down enough, or that you didn't vacuum enough or any of that. She simply changed. She doesn't want the M anymore. She may change back again but not because you put the toilet seat down more or vacuum more, but rather because that internal change shifts again. It happens. Whether it happens to YOUR W is not known, so you give her time and space and you work on yourself because that is ALL you can do.

[AnotherStander]

Life is an adventure and always lately always something fun happening. What would generally be an amazing thing has me in a quandary.

I won a contest at work. I cannot take the cash equivalent as they just don't work that way but I won the following:

2 night stay at a very nice hotel ($300/night ish)
Dinner at the hotel restaurant (Probably about $300)
Couples massage (looked it up, with tax and tip about $500)

Total value is about $1500.

Question: In my current situation, do I present this to my wife? And if so, how do I do this?

Again, life is funny and looking forward to some interesting responses. And NO I am not interested in doing this by myself or in just sending my W for a couple of days off!!!

Wow what crazy timing that is. You'll probably get varying advice on this and I'm sure some people will tell you not to go with her, but I would present it to her. Tell her you won it at work and that you know it would be awkward given the current sitch but ask her if she's interested. Maybe mention you can be sure to get separate beds at the hotel. Try to do it with as little pressure as possible. Tell her if she doesn't want to that you completely understand. If she asks what you will do if she doesn't go then say you'll figure something else out and leave it at that.