Can I really do this #4

[sandi2]

I agree with Another Stander.

[Vanilla]

Me too

V

[Dtrmned]

I appreciate the input and am handling that part. I am giving her until tomorrow and then will ask her decision on the contest win.

Nothing marital related happened this weekend.

Just a big blow up with my D yesterday and myself and she again said some very hurtful things to me. She is struggling and I am struggling with how to handle it. She is blaming me for everything in her life and I know she is just a kid. I laid awake all night thinking of my baby girl having such a hard time. I just want to hold her and protect her, but she feels she needs protected from me! That I am the bad guy. She, unfortunately, has heard my W and I argue when we were really going at it so she uses some of the same words my W used during those against me as well. She is a great kid and has no idea that how bad she thinks her life is right now, how it will very much change in the future. She has already sworn that she doesn't want to spend any time with me, that she doesn't like me, etc. etc. and stuff. Yesterday, unfortunately, she used the hate word. Stings like a blade through the heart. W did stand beside me, didn't say much, but was shocked at how she was speaking to me. She said a few words to her later by themselves. We (meaning I did and W supported) took some priveledges away from her due to her actions.

Prior to that, it was a calm, decent several days. After, you could feel the tension from my W huge. I am just afraid that W will see this as a sign she needs to move the D forward. We spoke for a bit about how our D is having a tough time, that she is just a kid, and we both want to support her in every way that we can. Unfortunately, as a parent, sometimes that is saying "no" and/or not allowing certain behaviors to happen. Most of the time that falls on me so I am the bad guy. I am not a perfect father. I was angry from the financial collapse for a few years. I own that. I believe that for awhile I was changed and I did take it out on those whom I love deeply. This is not about me at this point, just giving you the information so you know a little more. I wasn't there for them as much as I should have been. I was reeling from losing everything, starting over, and very much worried about paying for rent, food, utilities, etc. Things she doesn't and shouldn't have to worry about yet. We are still tight on money so she can't do everything she wants. She knows Mom doesn't work, so she always asks me for money. W encourages this as she says "you have to ask your Dad, I don't have any money". So then I have to say "no". Not fair I know, but W is in the same boat. Why doesn't W get a job and help? Good question and I don't know.

Outside of making sure all the bills are paid, there is very little money in our joint account. I feel it prudent to remain that way just to be safe. I am not "rolling in cash" by any stretch of the imagination. I am doing all I can to recover and move everything to a better place, hence looking for a better job. ALL of this D talk puts a huge strain on my productivity as it is hard to shut off the feelings no matter where I am. I am working on this part though.

I believe W may see the financial woes, the financial collapse, and the fact that I did everything wrong in the beginning of this several months ago and still sees me as weak. I don't know how to change that in her mind. I can only do what I can do. Get on better footing and make a better living. Tough to do when you aren't a team. I sacrificed a lot of my time with my kids to try and provide a good life for all of us. I also picked up more and more as my W went through her health struggles to make sure we were ok as well. One example would be during one of her surgeries, my S was still fairly little 18 mos I think and D was 4. W had a surgery and recovery was 8-10 weeks. During this time she wasn't medically allowed to pick up our children. Our business was in another state, so I did have to travel 3 of those weeks. I hired a live in nanny during that time to make sure everyone was taken care of. In my day, never heard of!

My teenage daughter is spoiled. I don't fault her for how she feels. I just don't know what to do about it. If it takes her to hate me to grow into the person she needs to be, I am fine with that. This is not about me, it is all about our children. Looking up counselors this morning to try to get her in asap.

Worst part, if she thinks it is bad now, I unfortunately don't see it getting any better if my W and I D. When I was litte, a dozen donuts from Dunkin or a bucket of the Colonel's chicken was a very rare and a total luxury item! With today's Iphones, netflix, and immediate gratification lifestyle, those things they presently enjoy I believe will decrease very rapidly. This may turn out to be a good thing for them and teach them a little more about the world. I don't wish this upon them and will do all I can to protect them moving forward. W didn't sleep last night and got up at 4. Don't know if it health or stress related. Time will tell and today should be interesting as I feel something will happen from her.

[SteveLW]

Hang in there man. My D15 is very up and down with me. It is that age. I was hoping she'd be the exception, but nada.

You are going to be fine, JS. Just remember that. No matter what happens.

[Dtrmned]

Thanks Steve.
Whatever it takes I will be ok.
I am more concerned about our children and how this extended issue will affect them for their future. I know my W and D are very close since they spend more time together. I am grateful they have that. I am not jealous, but I do wish I had more time to spend with her and that she wanted to spend time with me. All I can do is be her father. I am not her friend.

The other part is I feel, and I know this is mind reading, that my W will use this in some way to push her fantasy agenda forward. Maybe it is just me in my own head worrying over nothing as I have been known to do. I'm just going to relax and let it play out.

[Dtrmned]

Another night of nothingness.
I will quickly retract that as when I got home, D was laughing while she had a break from her room (grounded for 2 weeks due to huge disrespectful incident on Sunday. W and D (I believe W didn't want to hear our conversation) were a little "confused" as to the ruled. Old school grounding. No electronics, no tv, no communication through mom's phone and she is in her room with the door open all day for 2 weeks outside of eating, chores and of course shower/bathroom time. I had to be the bad guy again and was fine with that as of course "she hates me now" totally expected as a teenager and not my job for her to like me, but to give her values, morals, responsibility and show her consequences to her actions. When I went upstairs and re-explained what her mom and I agreed to, she was shocked! A couple of hours later, I was so impressed that she was taking the time to re-arrange furniture in her room and re-organize her shelves and closet. She was, of course, baiting her younger brother to get in and "help" which meant to distract and play with him. I LOVE when she has not electronics since she is much more personable and fun loving instead of tied up in the social media life. So only day 1 and she loves (and I love this about her) that she is not going to give in and "let" me win (not about me winning at all, just guiding her hopefully the best way I can to be the best person she can be). So 24 hours hours in and she is happier, more pleasant to everyone (including the one she presently hates) Zero communication with friends. I find this old school punishment to be more impactful. I loved my father, but he did use corporal punishment in our time. I look back and do not think it was total abuse. Also, my W and I made a huge agreement when we had kids that we would never strike or beat our children. Outside of slapping their hand away from a not iron, electrical outlet, or reaching for the oven or stove when necessary when they were too young to know, that is all. I know that was day 1 of 14 so it will be a rollercoaster along the way. S is so sweet that he want to interact with his big Sis and I had to let him know that his D was being punished for her actions and he needed to leave him along. I won't lie. There was about 45 minutes I heard the laughing and playing together so I took the time to let them enjoy each other prior to interrupting it and making sure everyone was on the same page while ensuring my S knew he did absolutely nothing wrong.

As far as MR. W was a little pissy yesterday due to health and exhaustion issues. I would love some HUGE insight from all of you as to why she does the following:

1. Why hasn't she left?
2. Why does she still sleep in the MBR?
3. With #2 in mind, why does she just sleep next to me in just her bra and panties. She knows I am attracted to her that way (and all others) and it is either a tease to keep me on or a stab showing what I cant have any more. (not trying to turn this into a porno as nothing has happened in 10 months, but really? Is it just torture or her just making sure since she knows I know she is gorgeous, love her and desire her that she is tempting me to keep me in.
4. Lots happening in the next 2 weeks that will require decisions.
5. Least of which is the fun trip I won and am going to ask er tonight her decision if we can take advantage of it, get away for 2 days, and not pressure to R, but relax and enjoy a few days.


I would love everyone's response on these. Sandi, Steve, AS, Etc.

As of this moment today, she has made no effort to move this forward. Brief, pleasant interaction this morning as she got up a little later 6am so I hope she got some rest. I already had 6 miles in by then. This GAL thing is good. And I look really good if I do say so myself.

She is still struggling with the health issues greatly. I asked, since she got up so early yesterday (4am) If she was tired and going to be able to sleep. Her response was that she could nap for 5 hours a day and still sleep soundly at night. Doesn't seem to be that she is looking for a job. Ideas on how to handle this are greatly appreciated as well. Concerns are :
1- Quality of life for W and kids when she moves out due to the inability to live within her then be means.
2- Do I ask or insist that she immediately find a job so she can see that most employer's frown on a 5 hour nap a day!

Not a bad, but not a great morning so far.
Good Day to all and I look forward to the great insight and any 2x4's coming my way...

[Dtrmned]

Conversation with W today:

W: did you hear anything on the job offer?

Me: Talked with National Manager yesterday and followed up with the regional who said I knocked it out of the park. Just waiting for them to decide.

W: Well, we need to start looking into schools.

Me: I will get you some information and send it to you so if/when we agree we are ahead of the game. I still don't know how we are going to accomplish this as it will be very expensive.

W: I don't either.

ME: Are you still wanting to relocate?

W: Yes, that would be my preference.

Me: I just don't know how we can do that financially. Do you have any ideas?

W: You always handled that.

Me: We can discuss this more when the offer actually comes in.

Me: Did you handle the issue with the bank account (automatic charge that was supposed to be handled)?

W: No. I didn't know I was supposed to.

Me: We spoke yesterday about it. I don't take any money out of our joint account and don't even have a debit card for it.

W: I thought we were going to discuss it.

Me: We did yesterday.

W: Whatever.

Me: Could you explain to me what you mean by whatever?

W: No.

Me: I am not trying nor wanting to argue with you, I just wanted to discuss an issue.

W: No, you want to put words in my mouth and make it all my fault.

Me: No. I just asked a question.

W: Whatever

Me: There is that word again.

Me: As I'm looking into the relocation school areas, I am concerned about the financial cost of breaking our lease, the cost of moving and the cost of new housing and how that is going to work.

W: What do you mean how it is going to work?

Me: Our living arrangements, but I don't want to talk about that now. I will do the research on the schools, send them to you and we can discuss if/when the offer comes.

W: Whatever..

Me: I'm gonna let you go. As I said I am not trying to upset you or argue about anything and I am not trying to put words in your mouth.

She persisted and went on to talk about money more and I mentioned her getting a job. She said that I keep putting that out there and she can't work and isn't sure that she can even keep a job.

I ended the call I'd say not totally amically but before it escalated any further.

So yes, No Sh!t she can't hold a job. I'll be surprised if she can get a job making money. A few more parts to the convo but I wanted to get the gist down to get some feedback.

She is exhausted, doesn't feel well, and the weight of this is going to wear on her fast and I am the only person she can blame.

Thoughts?
Input?
Please...

[SteveLW]

You need to do more validation.

Ex: W: You are putting words into my mouth. You: I am sorry you feel that I am doing that, however, I was just trying to discuss an issue with you.

Also ignore the "whatever". It is passive-aggressive and when you react it gives her exactly what she wants. It is a verbal eye-roll. Ignore it, and likely she'll quit saying it.

I would stop bringing up her getting a job. That is for her to decide, not you. Your decision is whether or not to keep supporting her financially. She is the WAW. Likely you'd have to pay alimony for a while in a D but you don't have to do that until court-ordered to.

On the move. Either you can afford it or you can't. She doesn't bring in income. So you will need to decide if you can relocate or not. From someone that just moved, it is expensive, no question about it. If you can afford it and want to, then do it. You are not currently obligated to support a second home for her. If you can't even if you stay together, then don't consider it.

Above all, DO NOT MAKE THIS MOVE AS A MEANS TO TRY TO GET HER TO STAY IN THE MR! That will backfire.

[Dtrmned]

Thank Steve.
I am working on the validation more and more and definitely not perfect. I did tell her a few times that "I was sorry she felt that way" and she later said that she hates that phrase. That it seems demeaning to her and she would appreciate me not using that so I am trying to find some different validation phrases.

Alimony shouldn't be a question as it is specifically excluded in the prenup. Only child support and we have pretty much agreed on that part. As far as affording it. I don't know. I mentioned before that I don't want to "foot" the bill to move her up and then have her bail a month or so later. I am not trying to do this as a way to save our MR. IF it opened the possibility of getting all of us to a different city, starting over as a family and working on things, I would consider it. Otherwise, I would be looking at the opportunity for the future for my kids and myself and W would have to foot her own bill. NOT trying to hold that over her head, but I won't be a doormat and be used either.

[hongaku]

You can also use things like I understand that is how you feel... or I know this is hard to talk about, it is for me, too... and I respect your opinion and I see your point, however..., etc.

Do not get stuck using the same phrases every time, as it will come off as mechanical and disingenuous. Put some thought into your communication skills and be present, relaxed and calm enough in actual conversation to be natural with it and improvise effectively. Use agreement when you can as well, in tandem with validation (this does not mean you agree with everything she says wholesale, but it is very hard to continue arguing with someone when they are agreeing with you on something, so when used at the right times, it is a very effective disarming tool).