Introduction

[AnotherStander]

Wow what a crazy tale that is. Well, let's get to the crux of it- your H is actively having an affair. Your H is unlikely to file for D not because he is leaving the door open to recon, but because he's in bad shape financially and wants financial support from you in the form of insurance and who knows what else. So where does that leave you? Personally whenever I read sitches about women dealing with an adulterous, lying WAH my advice is always the same- tough love is the ONLY approach to take. NO cake-eating. NO sleeping with him, or letting him hang out or long talks on the phone, or chummy chats. Cut all but required contact. Make the house off limits to him. Let him know you are NOT playing his games or taking his crap. I would even suggest as Steve did that you cut him off your insurance at the earliest opportunity.

First words out of his mouth were, "First of all, we're getting a divorce." Interesting, given even AS WE SPEAK he has (still) not filed. It's been since May that he first swore he wanted a divorce

In other words, "I'm single and can do whatever the hell I want." To him you're already D'd, the paperwork is just a formality. I don't really know what you hoped to gain by continuing the convo after that, I guess you were hoping for a heartfelt apology but you've got to understand, you are NOT going to get it. If anything he'll find reasons to blame YOU for his affair. You didn't love him enough, or give him enough sex, or clean house enough, or hang the towels in the bathroom right. IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT!! THAT is his mindset. All you can do is leave him to this ridiculous mess he's making. Get out. GAL. Leave him alone. Focus on you.

By the way I guess you know you can't believe anything he says. If his lips are a-movin' he's a-lyin'. Just remember that.

I text him, ask if he's aware of the message, he says he is not. I ask for him to call. He says he wants to know what's going on. I just say "me too". When we finally speak, I tell him I know he hasn't told me the full truth, that I AM being made a fool of and at this point he just needs to be completely honest with me.

OK well we would have advised you against 90% of what you did, but it's water under the bridge at this point. No more of this though, you're just adding insult to your own injury. You know he's a lying cheater, there's nothing more to learn or explore about that, right?

And financially, I don't know WHAT he's up to. So while I don't want to file, I feel I will need to file sooner rather than later whether I'm ready or not just to protect myself in case he's deciding to go run up a bunch of debt with OW or something!

You are absolutely right and you are at greater risk of this then you may realize. Take action IMMEDIATELY. Talk to a L, explain everything and determine a course of action. It doesn't necessarily mean D, but you do need to make sure you are financially protected because the next time you see him he may very well be in a 2019 Corvette convertible. Even if he doesn't saddle you with that payment you are still paying his car insurance! He may do things to be hurtful and hateful, or maybe just because he thinks he "deserves" a new car, a 5000 dollar suit or a nice cruise with his GF (or all of the above). Seriously I've heart it all in my time here, if he's MLC there's no limits to the potential insanity.

[ovrrnbw]

Sorry about everything that has happened. Sometimes we go a few weeks with no change, then everything happens in a day or two.

Gotta let him go, quit putting a nice landing area for him. No more I love you's, I miss you's, etc. Don't be his plan B. Don't allow cake eating.

GAL means go start a new life. Move forward and enjoy every day! You never know which could be your last so live like it!

[TJT]

NO cake-eating. NO sleeping with him, or letting him hang out or long talks on the phone, or chummy chats.

Yeah, none of this has been happening for like a month now. He's not even trying to come to the house so that's not an issue, and definitely trying to figure out the insurance thing.

I don't really know what you hoped to gain by continuing the convo after that, I guess you were hoping for a heartfelt apology but you've got to understand, you are NOT going to get it.

I think either way I would have needed to confront him, otherwise I really didn't have any proof/validation of what happened. That's what I wanted to gain, and I only got that from him admitting it based on the clues I had and the way I positioned it as me "knowing", police style I guess, to get his confession even though I really didn't know. Sure there were other clues and the credit card but that still didn't validate what happened in my home, and we all know if I had acted before any of that based on a "hunch" it would have gotten turned around on me even worse, with the added disadvantage that I didn't have anything to back myself up. At least this way when he initially tried to backtrack from his guilt and turn some of it on me, I knew with more confidence that it truly wasn't my issue at that point, even if he hadn't told me everything in full. I think I would have questioned myself a lot more and had a harder time setting boundaries if I hadn't gotten that confirmation, or some other hard evidence some other way. Now he knows I know the truth rather than the made-up story he's been telling me (and himself), and I think it was important for him to see the pain that caused instead of continuing to protect himself from the impact his actions had on me.

I had asked him why he did all this and continued to lie and turn things on me before if I was really right, and in typical contradictory fashion he just said he didn't want to hurt me, which I know just means he was guilty and didn't want to own up to it for the sake of his own ego.

All this being said, my prior comments about him being avoidant, etc. continue to come back here, and I do realize that no matter how much is "proven" to him or how much he is put face to face with his own demons, he may never come around to change anything. Despite all the hope I try to keep alive, I don't think I'd be completely surprised at this point if he didn't.

It baffles me how people can go from a stable life to making such terrible choices and it does bring more insecurity than I'd like to admit because I start to think, wow, am I horrible to be around? Am I actually a bad wife? Of all the things he could be dealing with, was there really nothing he cared about losing in our relationship? The logical thoughts and these feelings living in parallel to each other are a nightmare.

Also, the fact that it seems this happens more frequently than I ever thought has me super scared and pessimistic about long-term relationships and whether they are even possible in reality. I know that's a whooole other thread but given what's happened to me, I'm doing that thing where it's like, well, if this doesn't match my understanding of the world, maybe my understanding of how the world should be is wrong (loving, long-term monogamous relationships where men do have a deep emotional attachment and commitment to their wives). I say that because what I've been hearing more and more about PAs with men is that they apparently really don't have capacity (not my words and something I'd like not to believe) to understand the importance of doing such a thing and the devastation it causes. "Sex is sex" and they don't really see a difference who they do it with. I really hope that's hogwash, but just laying it out there and what I've been trying to work through in my mind with all of this. Fun times.

OK well we would have advised you against 90% of what you did, but it's water under the bridge at this point. No more of this though, you're just adding insult to your own injury. You know he's a lying cheater, there's nothing more to learn or explore about that, right?

Point noted. I'm sorry guys... I will do my best to be better even though I guess what's being said here is maybe some things would have been different already had I not done some things. Would be much easier if there were little DB angels on my shoulder at all times!

It doesn't necessarily mean D, but you do need to make sure you are financially protected

I don't know what other option there would be besides filing in order to be financially protected. TX doesn't recognize formal separation. Are there other ways? As a side note, we agreed not to get lawyers involved in terms of drafting a decree - we already decided how we would split stuff and would like not to spend thousands of dollars for someone else to decide if we can. I know that doesn't mean I can't go get legal advice regardless; I did talk to a lawyer before to confirm based on TX being community state, and they said as long as we agree on the split of debts and assets, a judge will approve unless it seems crazily off-balance which is rare. And I think it's highly unlikely he would change his mind and decide to hire a lawyer and fight me on things because I don't know where he'd get that money or to be honest, what else he would even want from me. Knowing him and his behavior, it WOULD surprise me if suddenly he lit a fire under that ,and I just don't think the ROI would be there. So yeah, it's mainly just any shared debt issues in terms of him not paying or defaulting to where a collector could come after me that I want to avoid.

Without filing for D and being prepared for the end to actually occur, I feel stuck between hell and somewhere even hotter, hah.

[TJT]

Sorry about everything that has happened. Sometimes we go a few weeks with no change, then everything happens in a day or two.

Gotta let him go, quit putting a nice landing area for him. No more I love you's, I miss you's, etc. Don't be his plan B. Don't allow cake eating.

GAL means go start a new life. Move forward and enjoy every day! You never know which could be your last so live like it!

Thanks overrnbw. Trying like crazy to keep this in mind. I do find myself enjoying things on my own without him, I just can't envision the rest of my life not sharing it with someone special. I love my friends dearly but I only have a few close ones and really thrive on having deep, meaningful relationships in my life vs. lots of acquaintances. So this has really been a deep cut in terms of what I envision a happy future to be.

[NicoleR]

Hi TJT, I'm so sorry to read of your situation. It sounds like things have been deteriorating for a while. There's still hope that your husband will have a change of heart if he sees you move on and become strong and independent on your own or if he's having an affair and it ends. I wish I could offer more that others haven't already offered - the thing that has helped me recently is focusing on my career. I hope you find your own unique way to cope that helps alleviate a bit of the suffering. I also wish so badly to share my life with someone special so I can relate to your comment about that.

[TJT]

Thank you Nicole. Work has definitely been great for me too. I find a lot of purpose there and have a fantastic team who has been really amazing and beyond supportive the past few months. Thanks for your words of encouragement and I hope it gets easier for you too!

[Accuray]

he still, absolutely, 100%, does not seem to feel remorse.

Long running affairs are acts of anger -- he has built up a ton of resentment toward you, and since he's avoidant, he hasn't given voice to any of it or worked any of it through. I'm not saying you've done anything wrong, or that you deserve his resentment, it could be completely irrational, but the point is that it exists.

Once people have affairs, they *initially* feel guilty and will beat themselves up about it, but eventually self-protection takes over and they refuse to believe that they are bad people.

So if he's not a bad person, then the reason he did a bad thing must have been because *you* drove him to it, you made him do it, and therefore *you* are the bad person and he is the victim.

Once he gets there, he'll seek any evidence to reinforce his viewpoint and will reject anything that contradicts it. That's why he will vilify you and nothing you do will be good. You simply can't win because he's an expert at confirmation bias at this point.

Virtually no one gets any real remorse -- the wayward spouse will feel sorry for themselves for "how you made them feel" about the affair, but they won't really feel remorse for their actions because they convince themselves that they were justified and that you were to blame.

Sorry TJT

Acc

[TJT]

Thanks Acc. I have basically come to this conclusion as well. While I know we are all biased about ourselves, I'm confident that my "sins" are nowhere near deserving of his treatment of me and whatever he is making it out to be in his head. But I do get that if that's what he's convinced himself of, he will believe it as fact and there's nothing I can do about it.

Lately I have been remembering little things here and there, just conversations we may have had where I said one thing or another that didn't seem like a big deal at the time (like simply disagreeing on our taste in something), but that now I think, "Oh, I'm sure that was a thing he didn't like." And of course, even though I had no idea and couldn't get him to open up, and those things certainly should not be basis for divorce in any case, I do catch myself thinking that it's my "fault" because of them.

It tears me apart knowing that I'm thinking these things while also being well aware that it's his behavior that's making me feel bad about and question myself. And it's not because I don't think I shouldn't be the one to do any changing, but because I KNOW I had tried to understand and improve what I could so many times, only for it to be ignored, as you say. It's like he was building this case against me for so long, and I just don't know why he invested so much of his energy in that instead of growth (million dollar question). In fact, I recall a conversation I had with him where I directly said that it seems like I can praise him for 10 things but the one thing I disagree with him on he will take SO personally. I can't remember his full response, but I do remember he generally agreed with me that that was his response pattern!

Based on what I've read in other people's sitches, I have to say I feel like mine is pretty far gone. Aside from his inaction on the D and general lack of concern/attention when it comes to loose ends, I don't feel like there's anything left on the other side since he has moved out, or that those things are an attempt to manipulate. We've been NC for a month or more now. He never tries to text me. He never tries to come by the house. There's none of the "games" that I hear people talk about trying to get my attention and then pushing me away in a cycle. I'm slowly, slowwwly detaching, but I'm definitely resisting it mentally knowing that it will be the nail in the coffin for us if I manage to actually do it.

Part of me wants that freedom, and part of me wants to be that person that waits around for their one true love to get a clue and come back to them to live happily ever after even if it means years of holding out (definitely NOT what I want my life to be, but I hope you get my point). Then I think about all the things he's done and I ask myself, "IS THIS SERIOUSLY YOUR ONE TRUE LOVE?" at which point I realize the cocaine-effect of love on my brain and just try to encourage myself that if I can keep going long enough I will beat this addiction!!

I did get a change of address verification in the mail last week, but it didn't have the new address on it. I texted him to ask about the new address and to let him know that if any mail addressed to both of us accidentally gets forwarded, I need to know about it. I also let him know how much I'm paying each month for health insurance since it's open enrollment at work... he asked if I could simply not enroll them. I told him no, not unless he either has insurance offered by his job (which he doesn't) or I have a divorce decree. His response was to offer to pay me his portion of the benefits directly "until then". I didn't bother to ask when he was planning on "then" being.

I am certainly not obligated to put his son on my insurance, but I'd rather have him be covered than be married to his father, have something major happen, and then he has either no or very poor coverage through somewhere else with me still being legally responsible for half, if it came down to it.

Anyway though, it was a short and to the point exchange of texts. He seemed to have no problem handing over money for his portion of bills I'm still managing (not trying to cake eat), and there was nothing more to the conversation. I didn't try to get anything else out of him or act like I cared about anything else other than getting his contribution for what I'm still paying for. I didn't say thank you or anything after he agreed he would give his share. It was all business.

Before, I gave myself until the end of this month to decide whether or not I will file. I have extended my timeline to December, mostly because I have felt like I still need to "marinate" in everything that's happened and him being moved out, without thinking about logistics and taking action and getting things sorted out. It doesn't seem like it's been that long so even though it does feel pretty far gone and hopeless, I'm at least trying to give some extended length of time of truly being apart to see if it changes anything and for me to feel comfortable enough with the decision. That's the only hope I have left, albeit with very low expectations.

That's also when our anniversary is, and I figure if that goes by without any change in the sitch, it may put enough fire under me to say screw it and file. I'm pretty sure I already know what that outcome will be. Again I just feel like I've never heard of someone being so self-convinced of an alternate reality than this man seems to be, especially given the good times the relationship had. To be able to push those parts out and be so absorbed in himself and this sudden danger he's protecting himself from seems to be legitimately crazy the more I think about it. I can't help but wonder if there's truly something that can't be done in these cases to get people to see the flaws in their minds, or if it's more like a disease with no cure that some people will just succumb to without any chance of changing that.

So I just try to remind myself that these things happen. People go crazy. Accidents happen (speaking of, I had a VERY close call with the other day with someone who didn't look both ways before pulling out into an intersection - my dog was in the car, I don't know how I managed to get out of the way fast enough, but given everything that's going on in my life already it really shook me up and just scared me even more to be reminded yet again of how helpless and vulnerable I am!)

And that [censored] the worst, knowing that ultimately we don't really have the final say in what comes of it, especially the one thing that you thought you'd always be able to count on when anything else goes wrong. And aside from that aspect, it was the first time I realized that if I HAD gotten into an accident, I wouldn't have my husband to come see me in the hospital, or come to my funeral if I had died. It would just be one more thing that really sucked for me and was of no consequence to him. And that hurt and upset me in a whole new way.

[Accuray]

Lately I have been remembering little things here and there, just conversations we may have had where I said one thing or another that didn't seem like a big deal at the time (like simply disagreeing on our taste in something), but that now I think, "Oh, I'm sure that was a thing he didn't like." And of course, even though I had no idea and couldn't get him to open up, and those things certainly should not be basis for divorce in any case, I do catch myself thinking that it's my "fault" because of them.

This is a very common thing to do. The rug was yanked out from under you! When that happens its very destabilizing -- it came without warning and completely upended your life.

Your brain wants to go back and figure out what you did to deserve it. Your brain wants to say "Ah ha! I pulled that lever and that's why the trap door opened"

If you can find that "ah ha" moment, then you can avoid ever pulling that lever again and feel "safe" again that you can trust people in relationships.

That's why you're scanning history and wondering what you're to blame for. You're trying to build a simple cause and effect model of the world so you can navigate safely going forward.

Unfortunately, these are not simple cause and effect scenarios, so all this historical searching does is beat yourself up and harm your self esteem.

You need to mentally let go of the handlebars, surrender to the fact that "this happened" and accept that you may not ever be able to explain the "why" behind it.

That takes a lot of time to process, but once you get there it will free you.

[SteveLW]

Acc is dead on with this. TJT, you could have done everything right and still ended up here. There is no guarantee of long-term wedded bliss in this life! So many factors play into these things, it is impossible to know what would be different if you were different. Maybe he would have hated having someone that always agreed with him! (Believe it or not that is a fairly common complaint. "He/She never had their own opinions."

While I am an advocate of assessing what you could do better, the balance is to not fall into the trap Acc is discussing. 180ing on bad behavior (in my sitch I had a lot, things like being controlling, being overly critical, etc) is essential, but beating yourself up and making yourself believe that "if only I hadn't done this, we'd still be happy" is counter-productive.

Marriage is 50-50. Own your 50%, but do not take the blame for his 50%.