Need advice on detaching- Part 2

[kiro]

Hi all,

Thank you for your supporting words. I do appreciate more than you can ever imagine what this forum is offering. And this is why I keep coming back. And I do appreciate the time that you put to reply to me. And yes, I know how invaluable Sandi's advice is, but also everyone else.

Today, I called a lawyer for 1 hour and got a lot of information about divorce and mediation. It's a free service I have through my employer and I can call as many times as I want. It is super cool as a service. I learned a lot about what to expect in terms of dividing assets, spousal support, child custody, etc. The lawyer told me that my best option is to go to mediation and negotiate a deal.

Apparently, it's more beneficial to me financially that I start this process as soon as possible because the more I wait the more I would be spending money that I will not recuperate. He also gave me an idea of how much I would be paying for spousal support. I asked him if it was better if I stopped paying her car, her insurance, etc., but he had a good point. He said that it's better not to upset her now so I have her cooperation during mediation. Otherwise, she will be angry and will be tougher during the negotiations.

Anyway, I am curious to hear your thoughts. The lawyer recommends going to mediation sooner rather than later. But some of you thought that it's better not to do anything now and to give it more time...

[kiro]

Everyone that posts here want nothing more than for Kiro to be posting here in a year, well into piecing and R, and giving sound, direct and sometimes tough advice to others.

Steve, so I am curious about that comment. This is what I thought when I bought the DB and then DR books and when I first started reading this forum. My focus was to restore my marriage. To me, the term Divorce Busting could not be clearer than that: It clearly indicates that it is about Not getting Divorce. Yet, many people (or maybe most or all) on this forum use DBing as meaning becoming a better person, accepting the Sitch, and being reading to move on with or without the spouse.

My problem is that the more I use some of the techniques (like LRT or detaching), it is true that I start really not to care whether we get back together or not.

Then, when I used in one of my previous posts the term DBing as meaning to me the hope of restoring the marriage (because this is what Busting a Divorce means literally), I am told that I am misusing that word. I am confused!

If my only goal is to feel good about myself and heal after Divorce, there are plenty of resources and other forums that I could have gone to. IMO, we cannot say that the goal of this forum is just to become the best person we can be and that we should not have hope of R. Am I missing something here?

One of the sites that I read a lot earlier is the Heartsblessing site. It has a lot of good information especially about midlife crisis. The author always said that as long as there is hope, everything is possible. If I have no hope for a possible reconciliation, my best interest is to end this marriage right now.

[kiro]

The other thing that I just want to throw out there for what it's worth is that before starting this forum and the DB techniques (especially LRT, no contact, GAL, detaching), and for the first 7 months after BD, I mostly followed another marriage coach who recommended putting love first and basically pursuing the spouse through gifts, date nights, talks, etc.

Anyway, my point is not to analyze or judge what this other coach was preaching. But I have to say that he was right about something. While doing all these things to my W, my love to her was kept alive and even growing. And I became much more forgiving and understanding toward her. But it didn't stop her from leaving.

As soon as I stopped doing these things and I started using the DBing techniques I mention above, my love seems to have dissipated into thin air. I don't feel much love for her anymore. I became indifferent toward her, and it didn't help either my marriage situation.

I don't know...

[SteveLW]

Kiro,

First, pursuit and pressure, nor DBing techniques can or will control your W. And if you read the other sitches and many of our posts in those sitches, WASs have an UNCANNY ability to detect if their LBS is doing things simply to manipulate them. It is like a sixth sense.

Likely this is what occurred in your sitch. You got bombed on BD. You found this other marriage expert and he preached pursuit. (I think I know who you are talking about, and I also used his techniques. I think they can work BEFORE BD, but I don't think they are as effective after BD.) You immediately started buying gifts, trying to date her, talking to her. Maybe even touching her. So look at it from her perspective. She says she wants out, and needs time and space. You start smothering her with attention, gifts, trying to talk to her all the time, trying to ask her out on dates, maybe even touching her even though you rarely did before BD. Do you see how counter-productive that is? After BD WASs least want MORE of their LBS.

DBing does exactly what you mentioned above. It makes YOU a better person. But not to manipulate your WAS, for you moving forward. You become a much more balanced, easy going, secure person. You start becoming mentally, physically and emotionally what you should have been PRIOR to BD. And here is the catch.....it isn't to manipulate your WAS into staying, it is so you are ok no matter what happens in your sitch.

Now here is the real kicker. Once you GAL, institute 180s, and detach, you become an amazing person that other people want to be around, including sometimes your WAS. The reason it is called DBing is because if you do it well there is a good chance your WAS WILL take note. Whether that spurs them to want to R and stay in MR or not, they will take note. DBing is no guarantee of saving your MR. But it is a guarantee of saving yourself, and making you awesome and ready for a new R, whether that is with your WAS or someone else.

The key is in what you said: once you start doing DB techniques you REALLY start to detach. Not fake detach to manipulate, but really start to question why you wanted to save your MR to begin with. It is a strange phenomenon. In fact, the majority of the long term posters on this site were not successful in saving their MR. But they were successful in that DBing let them prepare for what lay next. Many of them, despite their WASs desire to R, made the choice themselves to D!

So when you DB well, there is a high likelihood that your WAS will take notice. Either they will come back to the MR and you will accept them back and start piecing. Or they'll take notice, but still walk away. Or they will try to come back and the LBS will say "No thanks." That is DBing. The name is a bit ironic. Yes MWD created DBing techniques based on what she observed gave the best chance in sitches like ours to move toward R.

Kiro I get the impression you were looking for a magic bullet. For something you could do that guaranteed you would save your MR. If you are looking for that then yes you will be disappointed. When you found DBing what you found was techniques that greatly enhanced your chances of success in R. But guaranteed you would be okay to move forward no matter what happened with your MR.

This go long, but you brought up a very deep subject that many of us struggle with especially early on.

[kiro]

I know... I know... I think I am still struggling between acceptance and denial... I hear you and I know this is what everyone is saying, but my mind still struggles with some of these thoughts...

Here are some additional questions, just food for thought:

- How about moral values? Where did family values go? Commitment? Sacrifice? I still value the marriage vows and I try to look at what is best for everyone in the long term.

- I am shocked that after such a long history together and so much intimacy and sharing, one partner can decide to leave without trying to work out issues, without communicating his/her intentions. And I am shocked that the LBS needs to be attractive so that the WAS takes notice.

Really? This is what it boils down to? A selfish WAS who needs to feel attraction again, putting all the burden on the LBS?

This sounds like a recipe for failure:
- A WAS who becomes selfish and loses attraction to the LBS, and decides to rewrite history, forget the marriage vows, and commitments.
- A devastated LBS who puts a Herculean effort to change and become a better person
- A WAS who may take notice and feel attraction again to the LBS and may want to reconcile, but still doesn't realize the damage he/she has done, the selfishness, and still is unsure he/she is ready to put the necessary effort to change and commit

Again, I know that all of this doesn't matter. I am an idealist. The whole idea of marriage was that if taken seriously, it puts a framework that let partners put more effort to work on issues because they wouldn't want to live miserably the rest of their lives together. But when marriage becomes a worthless piece of paper that anyone can walk out on at any time without any regret or feeling of guilt, people are left to their own desires and impulses. I guess I am too naive.

[kiro]

I know that I will be Okay without my wife. It will take some more time to adjust and there will be losses and damages (financially, emotionally, psychologically, etc.), but I am confident that eventually my kids and I will come out of this strong and successful. And I have full faith in God. This is why deep down in my heart, I am not all that worried.

I know what I am about to say will sound cheesy, but many times what disturbs me is not what will happen to me and to my kids. It's what has happened to my W, and mostly the fact that she has lost faith in God. She had been such a good believer and had such good moral values. I feel sad to see what has happened to her.

She is an early childhood educator, meaning that she works with young children (4 to 12 years old) all the time. It just seems so contradictory that she is neglecting her kids and in my view losing her good moral values, while influencing such innocent children.

A funny anecdote: a few months ago when we were still talking, she told me about a training she was taking as part of her job. It was a group exercise where each educator had to draw something showing the different interactions in their job. Apparently, all the other educators drew the children in the center and then all the different stakeholders (teachers, parents, educators, etc.) around them. She was the only one who drew herself in the center and everyone else around her. She felt a little embarrassed telling me the story, but she was laughing about it. I laughed as well, but inside I was feeling really sad for her.

[kiro]

I will stop all my useless nonsense posts and will focus again on DBing. I decided to re-read the DB and DR books and start real work to move forward steadily.

Going forward, I'll try to only post short meaningful messages showing my progress with DB. Otherwise, I'm wasting my time and everyone else's time.

[kiro]

First step forward is accepting that W has changed and is free to decide who she wants to be, who she wants to be with, where she wants to live, and how she wants to live. I may not disagree with it and may think that it is totally insane, but what I think does not matter when it comes to what she will do.

I don't have to like who she has become, but I won't waste any more time judging her just like I don't waste time judging anyone who lives with values I don't agree with. She is like that cashier in the supermarket.

I think this is what Sandi, Steve, Eric and everyone else was trying to tell me.

[jaylove]

I know... I know... I think I am still struggling between acceptance and denial... I hear you and I know this is what everyone is saying, but my mind still struggles with some of these thoughts...

Here are some additional questions, just food for thought:

- How about moral values? Where did family values go? Commitment? Sacrifice? I still value the marriage vows and I try to look at what is best for everyone in the long term.

- I am shocked that after such a long history together and so much intimacy and sharing, one partner can decide to leave without trying to work out issues, without communicating his/her intentions. And I am shocked that the LBS needs to be attractive so that the WAS takes notice.


Really? This is what it boils down to? A selfish WAS who needs to feel attraction again, putting all the burden on the LBS?

This sounds like a recipe for failure:
- A WAS who becomes selfish and loses attraction to the LBS, and decides to rewrite history, forget the marriage vows, and commitments.
- A devastated LBS who puts a Herculean effort to change and become a better person
- A WAS who may take notice and feel attraction again to the LBS and may want to reconcile, but still doesn't realize the damage he/she has done, the selfishness, and still is unsure he/she is ready to put the necessary effort to change and commit

Again, I know that all of this doesn't matter. I am an idealist. The whole idea of marriage was that if taken seriously, it puts a framework that let partners put more effort to work on issues because they wouldn't want to live miserably the rest of their lives together. But when marriage becomes a worthless piece of paper that anyone can walk out on at any time without any regret or feeling of guilt, people are left to their own desires and impulses. I guess I am too naive.

Kiro I feel exactly the same about vows, decency and no communication from someone who until recently was the love of your life.
I also struggle between acceptance and denial- the BD opens a huge gaping hole in us and leaves us suffering from emotions not experienced before. I lost my first wife in a freak tragic accident, but in all honesty this sitch is far worse because it’s not clear cut and so much is unresolved with so many questions that my W won’t answer
3 months ago she dropped £6000 on a new MBR bed, which would leave one to believe that the plan was to be sleeping on it together for twenty years. Today I received the draft D petition- I simply can’t get my head around this total change.

[kiro]

Kiro I feel exactly the same about vows, decency and no communication from someone who until recently was the love of your life.
I also struggle between acceptance and denial- the BD opens a huge gaping hole in us and leaves us suffering from emotions not experienced before. I lost my first wife in a freak tragic accident, but in all honesty this sitch is far worse because it’s not clear cut and so much is unresolved with so many questions that my W won’t answer
3 months ago she dropped £6000 on a new MBR bed, which would leave one to believe that the plan was to be sleeping on it together for twenty years. Today I received the draft D petition- I simply can’t get my head around this total change.

Herbie, I know exactly what you feel. It's tough to have all these unresolved questions. The only difference is that your BD was 1 month ago. Mine was 12 months ago. So it is normal that you are still struggling with these questions. It takes time to accept that there is nothing you can do about it and that you may never get the answers to these questions. And then, you'll start realizing that your best choice is to let go and focus on what you can control, which is your own happiness, your kids and the other people who decided to remain in your life.

But after 12 months, I should be way past this by now.