Thread #6: Piecing and R.....plus parenting a 15yo

[Vapo]

Davide,

you drop the expectations, not hope. Expectations, unmet expectations hurt. You being a newbie at this, you still have a lot to go through. I am not familiar with your situation, but it says here you registered in May 2018. My BD was June 2014 so some 4 years ago, so I do have some experience at this. First 3 months after the BD is the time of shell shock, where the LBS cannot quite grasp reality, cannot quite fathom what happened. Then reality starts sinking in. About 6 months post BD reality has just about set in and you still try to find the silver bullet, that one action that will save it all. It will not. Correctly you concluded, that the vast majority of cases here will not reunite. And when you come to the conclusion, that the main purpose of this page is to offer support and to save the LBS, then your path to recovery starts. It is a slow path, it is a winding road, with many forks in the road, where you sometimes stray and have to back up some.

As for the no EA/PA in your signature, I would not be so sure. In 95% of the cases it turns out there is an outside influence.

[Davide]

Sorry for the hijacking of your thread Steve. If you prefer, we can continue this conversation on my thread.

Where I come from they refer to the lottery as a tax on stupid people, so I've never played. Isn't that just an example of delusional hope leading people to make poor decisions and waste their hard earned money? You are demonstrably better off not playing the lottery than you are participating in it.

You asked why I am so attached to this idea that one must drop hope to detach. Obviously, I personally feel like hope is what is holding me back. Unrealistic hope. It feels to me that once I extinguish that completely I will be more ready to move on. Maybe I am wrong about that. I freely admit that I am a noob and don't have the experience of so many of you. At the same time, I don't know that I want to be on these boards in 4 years still in limbo (not a dig at you, Vapo, I have no idea of your sitch.)

[SteveLW]

As always great post Steve, very insightful . I see most of the warning signs in my sitch too but about 3 months before BD. I understand you say WAHs can be impulsive but exactly 11 months prior BD we conceived Baby 2. She was 10 weeks at BD. What I cannot understand in my sitch is how can someone go from wanting to have another child to not wanting MR in 11 months? I know WAH and WAW think and act differently but in a man’s perspective does this time even make sense?
And I can see how OP is a side effect not the root cause for most sitches

Detachment is a process for a LBS, final stages of grief where we move into acceptance. If LBSs didn’t beg, plead, pursue it probably was because they must have been done with MR too at BD right ?

Arsh, there are many similarities, obviously, between WAWs and WAHs. I only made a distinction because I think that for many WAHs, they come to the realization they want out, and more immediately take steps to make that happen. Therefore, they don't typically have the same long ramp-up time that you typically see with WAWs. WAHs may have been feeling the way they are feeling about leaving for a few weeks or a few months. WAWs have literally been DONE with the MR for many months, or even years before BD. But all sitches are different, so this isn't all true in totality.

But yes, WAHs taking action more quickly does make sense. As a guy I know that my W and I can vary wildly when it comes to decision making. Say we want to buy a new vacuum cleaner. I go to the store, pick one out based on brand, price, what's on sale, does it look like it is built in a quality way, etc. But my decision is made quickly. For her she spends hours, days, maybe even weeks researching the pros and cons of each vacuum cleaner, making a list and narrowing it down over time until she finally says, "THIS is the one we should get."

I don't think your assumption about the LBS being done with the MR if they don't beg, plead, and/or pursue on BD. Some people are much more emotionally secure, less codependent, and healthier emotionally (or more emotionally mature) than others. I think that if I ever BD'd my W she would say "Okay. Bye." And not because of our latest problems, but because she has emotionally matured to the point where she knows it will all be alright even if she were to move forward without me.

Early in our relationship this was not true. My W admitted that she was very clingy. That if she felt someone was moving away from her in a relationship she would grab hold and hang on for dear life. Did you see what I said above about her researching vacuum cleaners? Guess what, she has done similar research on why she was so needy in past relationships and even earlier on in our relationship. Even when our MR was healthy and strong she talked about how she had come to a place where she no longer felt that her world would end if I were to leave her. I remember in the first couple years of our MR, when we had some friends going through marital strife with one of them cheating, she said to me in a very pleading, begging way "PLEASE never cheat on me."

Since that time her attitude has changed to "If you cheat then that's it. We are through." (I know, based on her EAs that seems a tad hypocritical, but we all know these things are complex!) Or, if you leave I won't fight to keep you. Her emotional maturity through time and self reflection have led her to a point where she knows that she will be ok even if I were to bolt. But that doesn't mean she isn't trying to improve the MR or that she doesn't think it is worth keeping in lieu of my cheating or leaving.

[SteveLW]

Steve,

I've been lurking and following along with your threads, and all of the advice you give everyone. I really hope that one day my wife will wake back up and want to R, and stories like yours give me some hope when I just want to give up. I want to be able to let go the way you did and just trust that God has a plan for my life and my family.

DB346, thank you and good luck to you. If you had asked me in the days following BD if we had a chance for R I would have put it very low. At 2% or less. She just seemed so resolved and sure. And her actions definitely said that she was moving forward with her initial plan to get job, get an apartment and to D me. Sometimes her words said something different but for those first 3 weeks she seemed so resolved.

It wasn't until late January, that I started to see some actions that suggested she might be changing her mind. She quit working on her resume. She quit looking for apartments. She wasn't researching quick and easy divorces anymore.

Verbally she still rebelled against the MR, and she still did some things that weren't lining up wtih R (like messaging other guys). But the point is that her actions started to show something different than what she was saying.

If my sitch creates false hope for anyone it is probably more the hope that things will turnaround fairly quickly. Our sitch turned around fully, where she was back invested in the MR in about 2 1/2 months. That is very unusual and should not be expected. Many here were very skeptical because of the speed of the turnaround. Even I was wary of it and for 2-3 months afterward kept expecting the other shoe to drop at any moment.

So keep hope, bu more than anything BE patient. So many LBSs get impatient and give up on DBing. We recently had a poster here that insisted he knew better, started to do things that undermined his progress (and he had made great progress with DBing techniques), and the results were not good.

Hope is a powerful motivator and that is why I disagree with those that say that hope prevents them from DBing. Hope is what motivates most of us to keep DBing even in the face of evidence that suggests we should have no hope. But hope has to be coupled with patience, or the LBS is doomed to produce what they fear most and to be miserable while they go through it.

[SteveLW]

Sorry for the hijacking of your thread Steve. If you prefer, we can continue this conversation on my thread.

Where I come from they refer to the lottery as a tax on stupid people, so I've never played. Isn't that just an example of delusional hope leading people to make poor decisions and waste their hard earned money? You are demonstrably better off not playing the lottery than you are participating in it.

You asked why I am so attached to this idea that one must drop hope to detach. Obviously, I personally feel like hope is what is holding me back. Unrealistic hope. It feels to me that once I extinguish that completely I will be more ready to move on. Maybe I am wrong about that. I freely admit that I am a noob and don't have the experience of so many of you. At the same time, I don't know that I want to be on these boards in 4 years still in limbo (not a dig at you, Vapo, I have no idea of your sitch.)

I actually agree with you on the lottery. I am pretty staunchly opposed to gambling, legally or illegally. But mtb made a good point that most that play the lottery do so reasonably do to the hope of winning, without depending on winning it for their future well-being. But guess what, you are right, the vast majority would all be better off NOT playing it. Just like the vast majority of us would be better off NOT having to go through our sitches.

I also like that you gave a caveat on your feelings of hope, whether you did so intentionally or not. You said "Unrealistic hope". Now that is completely different! Unrealistic hope, the way I define it, is hoping for something that is completely impossible. Like "I hope a million dollars materializes out of then air on my table!" or "I hope that I could have the power to perform magic!' Yes, that is unrealistic hope. But I submit to you that there is always REALISTIC hope in our sitches. It is COMPLETELY possible that WASs and WSs can come to their senses, realize what they are doing is bad and harmful, and resolve to recommit to their LBS and work on the MR.

I think you are confusing "LIKELY" and "POSSIBLE". Possible means it COULD happen, even if unlikely. (Like winning the lotto is POSSIBLE, though unlikely, vs a million dollars materializing out of thin air on your table which is IMPOSSIBLE.)

So yes, unrealistic hope is foolish. It is chasing the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. But realistic hope is a powerful force that we should always encourage to hold on to. The cancer patient's realistic hope that they can be cured is what causes them to endure tough and difficult treatments that might help them realize that hope. I would submit that your sitch is the same way. There IS realistic hope, it is POSSIBLE that your W could change her mind and reconcile. It may not be LIKELY, but it is possible.

[Vapo]

Davide,

I am not limbo 4 years later. I am a success story. Not in the manner of speaking that I rescued my relationship with my W, but I saved myself and I am thriving and my kids are thriving aswell. The reason I still frequent these boards from time to time is to give something back to the community, to share my take and my experiences and most of all to give hope and encouragement to all the newbies on the forum, that it does get better, it really does.

[MoveFrwd]

you drop the expectations, not hope. Expectations, unmet expectations hurt.

^^^^ This is what I came here to post.

You drop your attachment to the outcome. You learn that you can be happy and healthy whether or not your marriage will reconcile. Sure, you can PREFER to reconcile. And HOPE to reconcile. But you know that it is going to be OK if that isnt the result. If you judge your success in the process and in your life by whether or not you reconcile, you are setting yourself up for failure and hurt. Take control of your life.

[DB346]

So keep hope, but more than anything BE patient. So many LBSs get impatient and give up on DBing. We recently had a poster here that insisted he knew better, started to do things that undermined his progress (and he had made great progress with DBing techniques), and the results were not good.

Hope is a powerful motivator and that is why I disagree with those that say that hope prevents them from DBing. Hope is what motivates most of us to keep DBing even in the face of evidence that suggests we should have no hope. But hope has to be coupled with patience, or the LBS is doomed to produce what they fear most and to be miserable while they go through it.

Steve,

Thank you. I am trying to let go completely without losing hope but it's a constant struggle. I'm putting all of my faith in trust in God to bring me out of this, and I appreciate how so many people on this board, yourself included, approach these situations with such strong faith. It makes it easier for me to relate your situations to mine.

[SteveLW]

Davide,

I am not limbo 4 years later. I am a success story. Not in the manner of speaking that I rescued my relationship with my W, but I saved myself and I am thriving and my kids are thriving aswell. The reason I still frequent these boards from time to time is to give something back to the community, to share my take and my experiences and most of all to give hope and encouragement to all the newbies on the forum, that it does get better, it really does.

Thank you for that Vapo! And this speaks to hope as well. The healthy hope it that you are going to be mentally, emotionally, and physically okay, even better, no matter what the future holds.

This is very important because I recently came across this blog post by MWD: http://www.divorcebusting.com/blog/till-death-do-us-part-what-really-happened-to-real-housewives%E2%80%99-taylor-armstrong%E2%80%99s-estranged-husband-russell-armstrong/

Scary stuff. Davide, Bewas, all of the newbies struggling with detachment please heed Vapo's words. Take care of you. Make sure you are okay. Prepare for the future with or without your WAS.

[Dtrmned]

Steve,
Great Posts. I always love your insight and appreciate your comments on my sitch as well.
Valuable tools. Realizing that our WAW/WW didn't just wake up one day and BD. They struggled with their decision for a long time. Reading through other's stories, similar reactions. "This came out of nowhere" "We had a great MR" " We weren't perfect but we were happy", etc. etc. Not realizing that the seeds were planted long, long ago. I look back and own my mistakes. The red flags were definitely there and some I ignored, some I picked up and waved back in her face, some I was oblivious too, and rarely I recognized some, tried to do something about it, but it was not the correct way to handle it. I don't "blame" my W for her decision. I know she did not come upon it lightly. She is definitely, at this moment, not the woman I married. She is struggling with her decision. She is also struggling that she has made a decision to move on after a LONG time of contemplating it. The journey before most of us will not be quick. It will not be easy. It will take resolve and commitment. I resonated a lot on the unrealistic hope comments. At present, Faith and Hope, realistic hope for a new and better me and hopefully a new a better MR are my concentration. I have zero control over my W. Detachment is key. Sandi's rules are key. DB'ing is key. I don't know if in my situation that in the end we will be together or not. I do know that I will be a better person and father. A 2.0 version of myself rebooted with a better operating system and the knowledge of what is truly important to me in this world.

The support of this board is amazing, but this is a journey that we have to do ourselves. We have to wake up each morning determined to be the best we can be. My focus is there.

Good Day to All!