Can I really do this #4

[Dtrmned]

Hi, my name is JS and I am in bad place today.

Examining the scenario, me stepping forward and moving things ahead seems to be a clearer and clearer decision. I am greatly struggling with this all night and today. I am not going to do anything other than give it the weekend and see what happens. I can only control me.

I got home, got ready and did my run yesterday. I came home and put my shoes back in the closet. W was coming down the stairs (and I found out later, since I was in the closet putting up my shoes, she thought I was going through her purse). (I didn't and wouldn't). I asked to speak to her and informed her I had a job offer today. Job is a good career opportunity but my concern is the time involved may be more than I can give. I quickly pointed out to her than I was just keeping her informed of the offer, and that even though it seemed like I solicited advice, that it was my decision and I just wanted to keep her in the loop. I did comment that this would be the first time I have made a decision like this without her input in 20 years! She agreed that it was a little weird. We started talking about our D her privledges back soon and how we were going to handle that. We spoke briefly about my rebuilding my relationship with our D. It was a decent conversation back and forth. It did get a little escalated when I commented on how her own actions are showing a bad example to our D. She asked what I meant and I just replied that when things got tough in our marriage, that her response is to leave the person she loves and abandon that relationship. Not a very good overall example on values and relationships. I wasn't trying to dig at her, but did want to point out this as an obvious oxymoron. "you have to have a relationship with your father" "Why" - D might ask "You don't want one". We discussed a little about how the D will affect our children. Best example I can bring up is she is still reeling over her parents divorce 30 years ago! Her denial of this and how it would affect our kids is mind boggling to me. I understand she has to justify. She mentioned a few times about our MR. She mentioned that she likes the "new" me, but is just waiting for the angry guy back. I told her I understand her frustration and apprehension. I also let her know that that angry guy is gone. He is not coming back. She said she hopes so because it costs us our MR and she doesn't want to see it cost my D. She was wanting to fight. I resisted and we did talk for awhile. We didn't talk about our MR other than she tried to rewrite history again and I corrected her. She tried to emphasize her "victim" role in this and I called her on that and we both need to own our part in the MR and the mistakes we made. Neither of us is to blame. If we choose to D, then that is what happens. If we choose to work on our MR, then that is what happens. She of course said it was too late for that. I merely stated that I was talking that happiness is a choice and you choose whom to be happy with. I choose my family. She really wants to tell our S quickly. She wants to give him time to process this prior to his starting school in a few weeks. I just don't want to break his innocence. Thoughts on this?

Other issue related to telling my S along with values, morals, relationships, parenting, etc. I am thinking of telling my W if she wants to tell our S, then she needs to move to the guestroom. That it would be inappropriate to let them know it is acceptable to sleep with someone other than your spouse. I am struggling with this now even with our D who knows this is my W's choice (she heard some arguments) that I love her and would do anything. So my W is sleeping in the same bed as someone she doesn't want to be with. My D knows there is a spare room. How can this not affect her with how she views relationships and what is acceptable? Should I ask her to do this? The two are not totally dependent on one another, but I am at a tipping point where I an contemplating whether I should trigger this or not. Knowing my W. Without her actually experiencing what life is without me (it may be wonderful, I don't know) I don't think she will realize how hard of a world it is out there. She is a strong woman, but hasn't had to worry about anything for 20 years. Add in the health issues, a job, and 2 kids, and it will be tough no matter who you are. It is going to be tough on me as well. Hence my concern on the job whether to take it or not with the time. Not that my kids can't do more than they are, but trying to make sure I am there for them. Its not about overall money, it is about time and quality. W wasn't too interested in hearing that. Said no one is going anywhere for a few month so take it and go if it is a good opportunity. She commented that me being gone more right now would not be a bad thing. I didn't take the bait.

It was a long conversation. No one yelled. I called her on the carpet a few times, regarding relationships mentioned above, and she tried a couple of times to rewrite history. I pointed out that my recollection of the events were vastly different. I didn't pursue. I validated. I ended the conversation as well.

She was rather cold the rest of the evening and said she was just going upstairs to read. OK. I came up a few hours later for bed and as I was crawling in she asked if I had found what I was looking for. It took me a few questions for her to accuse me of going through her purse. Now, My W and I have been together over 20 years. She has a lot of purses. I know where she keeps the ones she is cycling through right now as well as her other currents and where she keeps her not being used now bags. We do not go anywhere together any more. We have not been in a vehicle together since Mother's Day. I truly couldn't tell you which one of her current ones she is using. I have seen her switch them so many times over the years and I have never violated her privacy by doing that to her. Why would she think I would do that? Was it just bad timing? Was it that she wanted to find something to fight about? Did she want me to go off? Were her comments during the conversation escalated by her thinking I had just done that?

I responded back after we determined that going through her purse was what she thought I had done that I had not. She got up to check on our S and commented that I sure didn't deny it much. When she returned, I re-iterated that I didn't even know what purse she is currently using. That I did not go through her purse. I am respecting her request for space and would not violate her privacy. I commented that there was a charge recently through our joint account on her debit card. All of the transactions through our joint account are from merchants and stores that we both know. This was different. I wasn't snooping but I checked the merchant through google and found it was a scam. I struggled telling her this as I feared she would see it as that I was trying to snoop and control her. Not the issue. If I had pulled up the merchant and it was just a regular purchase that she had made I would move on. She said that we were both paranoid. I just commented again that I was just putting my shoes and hat in the closet. She said OK, I don't know if I believe you. I said good night and we went to sleep. Up early of course. W got up early again as well, but after me. When I left for work she seemed to still be a pretty icy and cold towards me.

Nearing the end of the week, I always feel something is coming. I wasn't disappointed.
Thoughts on this?
Should I just pull the trigger, let her experience life without me since this may be our only chance as I see it?
How do I handle the value/morality questions about our MR with our children?
Do I take the job?

Struggling this morning feeling a little hopeless on the sitch and it leaning way more towards D at least what I am seeing as the only option of moving us all forward. Together or not.

Again, not making any rash decisions (don't know if W will or not) so please respond and let me know what you guys think!!!

[SteveLW]

Are you leaning towards D to ease your pain? Or because that is what you really want?

[Dtrmned]

Steve,
I'm struggling. I don't want a D. Unfortunately (at least for the last 12 hours) I feel that if we stay in this state much longer, that we are going to despise and hate each other. Lots of blaming and then the bitter end of not doing anything then the struggle if i does happen that there is that much more emotion and perhaps one of us wanting to make it more difficult for the other. I don' t know if this is to ease my pain, everyone else's pain, or is it possibly the only path to:
1- get out prior to both of us hating each other.
2- quicker/cleaner/more amicable arrangement without the #1 involved turning into a bad #2 (yea, a funny)
3- Give my W the ability to experience life and the world. I only want her to be happy. My belief is that the world is a lot harder than she believes and this may cause her to reflect and look back. I wouldn't want her back due to just financial issues, but her realization that my contribution to our MR by dealing with the real world was just as much of a sacrifice of her being a SAHM. That our MR is a choice. That she would choose to R and look for a new MR. Odds are very low for this I know.

I am not looking for a magic bullet, a quick fix or anything. Just my W's attitude and comments of "I am so far across the line to even look back" is making it difficult to see a way. Pushing through with affirming the decision with our children. The reason I am posting here is to get some feedback. A lot of it comes from my own ability to look at it as I am posting. I'm not trying to sugar coat my posts or anything. I was a very angry man for a while and I don't know if my W would ever allow me back in again. Do I think we could rebuild? Yes. I just don't know how long or even the correct path that she needs. I also know it is not for me to decide her path and if it even includes me.

[arsh18]

JS, stop focusing so much on her and what she says. She is more confused, hurt and in limbo than you are. Why are you wanting a quick solution? Like you say yourself there is no magic bullet, the first mantra of DB is patience. Please slow your thoughts down and be very very patient during this limbo period

[Dtrmned]

As you can see by my quick response, I am waiting for any feedback I can get on this.
My question and I'm am realizing as I type and get the feedback I desperately need, is that is more of my W "creating" a crisis to justify her decision rather than my seeing an actual issue and reacting and how I react to it.

I know she is confused. ALL of her words, actions, etc. tell me and everyone else that. Arsh, I appreciate you checking in and I know you are dealing with a TON of stuff (though I don't have much to add or advise on) your sitch is one that I am diligently following and I am rooting for your family and happiness all the way!

The grind is just so hard. day by day. What surprise is next? Is this really possible? Or should I move on? I would love to say patience is one of my strong parts, but truly it is not. Entrepreneurs tend to lean toward the "solve the issue now" mentality and move on to the next. This is not a problem, it is a life changing challenging issue that is before my entire family. It affects me and everyone else.

So yes. I am in limbo. It hurts so much to have the person you vowed (and they as well) to be together and through anything for the rest of your life, looks at you with dead eyes, disdain, resentment, etc. etc. etc. AND you knowing almost totally that their path that is without you is filled with so much more struggle and strife that it doesn't make sense to anyone. I just don't now how to turn the page and I'm so worried that taking longer will result in us despising and hating each other more in the future.

[SteveLW]

Limbo is the gift of time. Use that time to engage in behaviors that move the ball in the direction you'd like it to go.

DON'T BELIEVE WHAT SHE SAYS! This rule is for positive and negative things she says. WASs rarely say the truth! Everything they say and do is calculated. Or predicated on the emotions of that moment. Put no stock into it.

When she says she is too far over the line to come back, do her actions corroborate or contradict that? Actions speak louder than words. Both for the WAS and the LBS.

Don't fall into her traps. Verbally nor emotionally. Slow, steady, even-keeled wins the race.

[Dtrmned]

So much easier typed than achieved.

Nothing good comes easy and I am giving this some time. Just worried about the response my W will make regarding yesterday. I know I can only react to what she does and it does nothing to "worry" about what she may or may not do. I see the effect it is having on my children and truly don't know what is better to do. I am conflicted in my duty to protect my children from harm and my vows to my W.

Does this make any sense?

[Dtrmned]

An interesting weekend.
Kept busy, not as much hanging with the kids as I'd like, but got some work and housework done.

W didn't mention anything all weekend about telling our S.

As I stated, I was going to give it time and see if she pressed.

Saturday was good. I went out and picked up dinner and we all ate at the table as a family, laughed, chatted and had a great time. After, W and I watched some tv and went to bed. No other real interactions.

Yesterday she woke up in a horrible mood. She was short, distant and purposefully stayed away from me all day. I just did my thing and gave her her space. As we sat down for dinner, W was VERY short with me. D even noticed and gave her a look of "why?" then looked at me like and smiled like she didn't know what to do. I shrugged it off and we ate. I'm going to write yesterday off to an "I don't now what was going on with W or if it even had anything to do with me" day. We still watched a few shows, although much more silent than usual. She's been struggling with the health/medication regulation issue which does cause some very severe mood swings. She hasn't been sleeping well, etc. etc. So, trying not to mind read. I just gave her space and vowed to myself to make it through the day without being baited in to any discussions or arguments. I made it.

Busy week for work and lots to do. Who knows what this week will bring, but I will state again as I have for the last few. Limbo is awful, the alternative is still worse, and WE (our family) made it through another week in the same home.

[SteveLW]

JS, well done. Limbo is the gift of time. Yes being in no man's land feels bad at times, but like you said it is better than the alternative. Just keep working on you. Your W will either come around or she won't.

Have you ever said what the nature of her health problems are?

[Dtrmned]

Steve,
I have eluded a few times, but they are numerous.

A couple of spinal surgeries that now are debilitating and cause chronic pain. Some days are better than others, but it has affected her (our) entire life. She used to be so active. Pre-kid she worked and worked out a lot (amateur fitness competitions prior to first spinal issue. Even post kids she was active and loved to have fun both as a family and a couple. Now can sometimes barely make it to the couch to get on her heating pad, but still manages to get most of what needs done, done. I help out a lot and so do the kids.

Various other surgeries. Melanoma, bladder prolapse, hysterectomy, ovary removed, appendectomy and probably a couple of others.

Outside of the spinal/chronic pain issue. She has some very severe IBS isues. The last issue started in September and lasted for about 8 months. She could only eat broth and jello. Test after test after test. Solution after solution after solution that just led to nothing being solved and more tests. When this kicks in badly, it wears her out.

On top of all that, I think the worst is she had to have her thyroid taken out about 8 years ago. They couldn't save any of it. She will be on replacement medication for the rest of her life on this. Her levels are now off as happens a few times a year. Unfortunately, whether you are hypo or hyper, it is not a good place. One makes you tweak out, edgy and can't stop (tough if your IBS is acting up or you are having a bad pain day). The other just makes you moody, exhausted and totally fatigued (tough if you have ANYTHING to accomplish). We are currently dealing with the exhaustion issue one. It takes about 6-8 weeks to get it back to any sense of "normalcy". It takes a couple of weeks for her to realize her body is off, has the blood work done, medication is adjusted, then it takes another 2-3 weeks to get everything back to some sense of normalcy.

That is the reason I kind of let the lashing out on me last week and the Sunday isolation and mood slide. I know she is struggling with WAY more than just our MR and our family. As much as I would like to think so (we are all selfish in our own way) I know that what she is dealing with sometimes has absolutely nothing to do with me. Hence when I insert myself into something that has nothing to do with me, it never ends well. She does her best to forge through. Sometimes she uses our issues to motivate her to push through harder. Unfortunately, whether it involves us or not, if she pushes too hard, it knocks her out for the next 2-3 days. Saturday, though a decent day as I was busy with chores and errands most of the day, my W was exhausted and on the couch. She said she slept ok Friday evening, but was back asleep on the couch from 7-9am, then again from 1-4pm. Hence the reason I volunteered to go and pick up dinner for everyone. I'd already cleaned the kitchen and thought the pick up, easy clean up and hopefully comfort food would give her a little comfort.

But Sunday came and again she was very short with everyone, not just me. Everyone kind of gave her her space and she spend most of the day up in her room either reading or napping.

I hope this gives you some insight into our situation just a little more.

I take my vows very seriously and I know I have a ton of NGS in me. I have stopped a lot of it, but I can't bring myself to not pitch in when the health issues arise. I can see that her future holds a ton of issues with or without me.