Can I really do this #5

[MrsJLS]

JustSad- so sorry for your pain you are experiencing, sounds like you really love your wife and your children. I do wonder if WASs are secretely enjoing pursuits by their LBSs like in your case your youtube video, and maybe somewhere deep inside things like these touch them and make them stop and think of what they are doing. I don't mean pursuing all the time, but when an odd slip happens like you did I don't think you should beat yourself up for that. The fact is that you try and she knows. She is the one who will have to live with the thought that she has destroyed a family, not you.

To me it looks like she doesn't quite want to let you go- by her mixed messages when you were sleeping together.

You sound like a perfect husband btw, I wish mine was 10% as nice

[SteveLW]

So GAL, 180, etc. etc. put us all in a limbo state that sacrifices our children's immediate needs and keeps us all in a bad situation? Just struggling with this, how to justify it for myself, and how do WE (my entire family) make it through to hopefully the other side?

For better or for worse.......

This period of limbo is giving you a gift! That gift is to be able to look your kids in the eyes and tell them without reservation that you did everything you could to hold the family together. Even through this rough patch.

The great lie out there is that kids are better off from a broken home than in a broken home. (Some big southern bald guy likes to say that.) I say HOGWASH. Kids are better off with parents that care enough about them to put their personal wants and wishes aside for THEIR betterment. So I know you are saying "I want to do this for the kids. But deep down is it really for them? Or for you?"

You can't control what the other side ends up being. But you can control whether your family makes it through. At least you and the kids. Your wife is not in a mental state right now to be a parent that puts personal wants and wishes aside for the betterment of the kids. So you be that for them.

[MMM12]

So GAL, 180, etc. etc. put us all in a limbo state that sacrifices our children's immediate needs and keeps us all in a bad situation? Just struggling with this, how to justify it for myself, and how do WE (my entire family) make it through to hopefully the other side?

For better or for worse.......

This period of limbo is giving you a gift! That gift is to be able to look your kids in the eyes and tell them without reservation that you did everything you could to hold the family together. Even through this rough patch.

The great lie out there is that kids are better off from a broken home than in a broken home. (Some big southern bald guy likes to say that.) I say HOGWASH. Kids are better off with parents that care enough about them to put their personal wants and wishes aside for THEIR betterment. So I know you are saying "I want to do this for the kids. But deep down is it really for them? Or for you?"

You can't control what the other side ends up being. But you can control whether your family makes it through. At least you and the kids. Your wife is not in a mental state right now to be a parent that puts personal wants and wishes aside for the betterment of the kids. So you be that for them.

Always great advice Steve85.

[Dtrmned]

Thanks for the input everyone.

MrsJLS, I wish my wife would see it that way!

Steve, I am truly wondering if it is for me or the kids. I am not wanting to justify anything through them. I know they are better off in an unbroken home. Can I "outlast" my W's issues to get there? I would love to say I am strong enough but there are days.... I know that I am and that I can, but each day, week, month that passes, we just seem to get further apart. She is more distant. Is this normal? How will she realize how her life could/would be without me if she doesn't? If I provide for my family and life is "easy" not perfect, but easy for her to just "maintain" and plan for her exit, is that a good thing or a bad thing? Would it be better to pull the rug out and let it play out that way?

I DON'T KNOW! I don't think anyone knows. That is the question before all of us. There are tons of scenarios that could or may play out. Is this the right way, the wrong way, or is this the best way? Which path to take? Truthfully,my concern is more on our children than my MR as this will affect them WAY more in their viewpoints on their relationships than it will my W and I as we are adults and can understand much better.

I need to take my family and just lay on a beach for a week! I would love that, dream of that often. Just no problems, issues, etc. no pressure, just relaxation and family time.

This possibility is a total dream at this point and I know that. But a man needs to dream sometimes.

Thank you EVERYONE for your input. I am WAY too NGS and am working on that. DB all the way.

Thanks for being there. Just venting and getting feedback helps more than you can imagine.

JS out.

[JRuss]

I went on one final beach trip with the full family while I was in my long limbo in-house separation. I had incredibly high hopes, but it was miserable because the (now) ex was miserable and acted like she was younger than out youngest and made it very clear that she was uncomfortable and wanted to be anywhere else. How about a trip with just you and the kids? I did that, too, several month further into our in-home separation, and it was awesome -- one of the best weeks of my life. It was very healing and reminded me I can parent on my own, which I needed to remember, especially at that moment.

The only other thing I'd say is that, should things go to divorce, you definitely don't want to be saying things to your kids afterwards like you did everything you could. That will cast your ex in a bad light in front of your children, and that's a cardinal no-no for their healing and development. Even if she deserves every bit of it, you have to avoid the temptation of doing it. No, just live your life now so that they'll KNOW you did all you could and leave it at that. And they will know, especially at their ages (same as mine, BTW).

[SteveLW]

The only other thing I'd say is that, should things go to divorce, you definitely don't want to be saying things to your kids afterwards like you did everything you could. That will cast your ex in a bad light in front of your children, and that's a cardinal no-no for their healing and development. Even if she deserves every bit of it, you have to avoid the temptation of doing it. No, just live your life now so that they'll KNOW you did all you could and leave it at that. And they will know, especially at their ages (same as mine, BTW).

Doesn't this amount to the same thing?

[Dtrmned]

No matter what happens. Whether we agree or disagree, I will never speak badly about the mother of my children to them ever.

My children will know by my actions how I conducted myself (and likewise how my W conducted herself). As to how they view how things happened or will happen, that is up to their interpretation.

I know my W is lost presently. She is not the person she used to be. I hope that someday she will get through and get to a better place whether with me or not.

She does love our children. I know that and they know that. I cannot stand in judgement of her. I can only control myself and my actions.

[Dtrmned]

I didn't sleep last night. Laying in bed going through the week. Integrating logic in a very illogical situation. I didn't do great, but I didn't do horrible this week. Some steps forward, some back. Reflecting back, I made the mistake of jumping on the rollercoaster ride a little too much, let things get inside my head and affect my overall attitude. Although it wasn't horrible, I could have done much better if I was adulting better. Trying to soak myself into work to distract me and at the same time making sure my kids are not left behind during this total disconnect with my W. Weird. As I lay resting, contemplating, reflecting, etc. all through the night. I have realized my W's sleep patterns. She starts off fairly cold, distant and farther away. By 3-4 am, she is moving over towards me. I am giving her space, but if I am steady and awake or not, she is moving towards me. The skin/skin connection (totally non sexual) happens in that time period. Example, this morning the actually reached out toward me and when her hand met mine, she grasped and held my hand. WEIRD. A few other minor, but skin on skin contact happened coming from someone who supposedly is moving on and is "done" with me. D had a bunch of friends stay the night and they were loud, stayed up late and I believe they had a great time. LOVE the fact that even though my D and I have a strained relationship, that her friends are very comfortable around me and feel safe and happy in our home. W is still all over the place. Cordial sometimes, even actually nice at others, but as soon as she feels that she is back in a comfort zone, she rebels and closes up and for the best descriptive term for the woman I love, she becomes a cold hearted B.

Taking Steve's advice to heart. and I have said this for the last few weeks. Limbo [censored], but it is a gift. As of this moment, WE (my family) have made it through another week in our home. Not perfect by any stretch. I may be blind as a bat as to what my W is really doing out there. Reminder of the health challenges, kid summer responsibilities, health issues, and all of the other stuff, I still feel my wife is looking for a way out presently with the very weird interactions all along the way.

Detaching better will help. Tough to do with an in house Separation. Hopefully my GAL gets better. I hope to have lunch today with a High school friend that is in town. She is Totally married, and of course so am I, so it is just a friend get together.

Up early again today. 3 teenagers in the house attributed to the no sleep thing. I do love that my D feels totally comfortable with her friends over. W expressed concern that she wasn't in the mood for that earlier in the day. I said I would take care of getting them dinner and watching over them.

To recap. Not a crazy week. I did ride the rollercoaster WAY too much and need to work on jumping off that ride and being more of the lighthouse.

Headed into the unknown (weekend and what may/may not happen) but at the moment I feel actually decent about our week. No ultimate hopes or dreams as this is a LONG process.

Happy Friday to all. I hope your weeks went amazingly better than mine. I do read and follow other situations. NOT a vet by any means, but if I feel I can add, I will definitely comment.

Sandi2, Am I just crazy, or on the Ozzy Osbourne Crazy Train?

[sandi2]

Her sleeping "patterns" are bothering you and taking up too much head space. I look at it the same as having a dream. It is not intentional, and you should not give it any meaning. Is there a spare bedroom?

If there is going to be an in-house separation.....then by gosh, start behaving as if you are separated. Can you do that, Mr. Nice Guy? Obviously. what you've been doing hasn't worked. It's time to really apply the last resort technique.

Seriously, you have to stop being Mr. Nice Guy. Which do you want more, to save your family......or always be seen as this nice guy with your W & kids? I think you need to honestly answer that question for yourself. There is a time and place for a man to be gentle, but I promise you it is never the time & place.... whenever you dealing with a wayward W. And, you have a daughter taking cues from her wayward mother...….and a son who is learning how to be a man from you.

So, she basically gives you the bomb drop again, and the two of you go on as if nothing was said? That's what happened last time......and it wasn't successful. So, I suggest you 180 from the previous blueprint.

[Dtrmned]

Sandi.
As always you are absolutely correct.

The NGS has got to stop. I didn't read your post until this morning, but I did have the chance to utilize it this weekend.

An uneventful weekend until Sunday afternoon. D wanted to go do something social and asked for money. I informed her, what I had before, that if she needed spending money, she should see her Mother as my D had told me specifically that she "hates" me, doesn't even like me and doesn't want a relationship with me. I told my D that I love her, will always be here for her, but she must respect me in our home. Also informed her that I would make sure she had all the essentials, food, water, roof, clothes, etc. but that I would not be funding anything else.

D asked, I declined. She asked her Mom who then came to me and actually asked that I give her the money so she can give it to our D. My W and I had discussed our position to hopefully guide our D back to respect and responsibility. BUT the FIRST time this issue comes up, she says she has changed her mind and it isn't fair. I said, why didn't you say this a couple of days ago? She said, well, it didn't come up. I told her that I am just trying to do what I feel is right (as parents we all make mistakes and sometimes fly blindly, so if anyone has some input on this, please respond). I stuck to my guns. My W then proceeded to tell me that this was "all about me" again. I said it absolutely is not, it is about our D and trying to get her to learn respect and responsibility for the future. She is my D and not my friend. I am her father. She doesn't have to live me now. I just hope that some of the lessons and guidance that I am trying to instill will help her in the future. I would much rather have her respect and friendship when she is an adult, that a false teenager friendship now.

W left. She was cold and distant and predictable the rest of the day.

Back to the major situation. My W is cake eating a ton. I am allowing it. I am going to re-read the LRT part of DR today. I have ordered NMMNG and will begin reading when it arrives.

I thought about what you posted (not even reading it until today so very meaningful to back it up when I did) a lot this weekend. My children are going to take their relationship examples mainly from their parents.

What example am I setting?
My own 2x4's to myself:
I have sacrificed my dignity to try and save my marriage.
I have been withdrawn and pretty much a doormat for a long time (not as much lately, but still a doormat) and have pretty much almost "accepted" within reason my W's actions.
I have been holding on to the remotest of hopes of R and a new MR. This I don't see as terrible as I do want them to learn that anything worthwhile is worth fighting for.
They have seen me angry, depressed, and truly not myself through a lot of this prior to DB. Things are changing, but there is some damage done there and I take responsibility to work on this and repair it.
The relationship with my children has suffered as I went through the financial collapse and the resulting choice of my W to end the MR. I would love to say I am better at shutting things down and not letting it affect me in front of them, but I (we) lost everything and then to have my W quit sometimes was a bit too much and yes, it came out badly.

What example is my W setting?
Just to clarify, our D knows as she heard some of the conversations and arguments. She knows that my W absolutely wants out and she also knows that I would do anything for us to stay together as a family.

My W doesn't want to be married to me. Why is she still there? This is showing my D that she should remain in a bad relationship that she doesn't want to be in, for MONTHS, even years, sleep in the same bed, interact socially occasionally, have family dinners, etc.

What is this showing my D about life, relationships, self-esteem, dignity, respect, responsibility, etc?

This is very disturbing to me and I am very concerned.

Questions for all PLEASE!!!

DB seems to have an affect. It has only been a little over 4 months but we have kind of gotten into a pattern of her space/my space. Comfortable space with nothing happening at all. Things will be calm for about a week, then usually on the weekend my W has to push something to get the issue back to the forefront and seemingly justify closing off again. But nothing happens. I am doing way better (need lots of improvement still) on validation. Detachment is difficult due to the in house S, financial issues, etc. Maybe this is just myself making an excuse not to get out more for GAL to help me detach more. One of the issues I have written down to contemplate over the next day or so.

QUESTION: I don't want to be a Mr. NG any longer. What are the best steps to accomplish this knowing that this is going to enrage my W?

Again, my issues are that I don't know how to do this and picking the best path. I know there is only a 50/50 at best shot of getting this to work. Knowing that, there are going to be many, many paths to choose along the way, and they will change. I need to learn how to recognize which is correct for the long term, and not just which one is good to "keep the peace" for now.

QUESTION: If Limbo is a gift, how is pushing it a different way going to help better?

Big questions and I am hoping for some great feedback.

Major eye opening experience on Friday not related to my MR happened that caused this big reflection over the weekend. Life is too short. If this takes 3 years to keep my family together, I am up to the investment. If my W and I end up at our 50th anniversary, That would mean we invested a very short time during our marriage through this major issue. A small sacrifice for love and a lasting MR and keeping our family together.

Happy Monday to all and I hope the sun is shining in some way on your life!