OrangeK, there are signs that my husband has been feeling loss similar to what you describe you wish your wife would feel. Oddly enough, it doesn't seem to make much difference in the overall situation. Last night, once again, my husband started crying on the phone when he did FaceTime with our daughter and said he had to go. His fantasy life has ended but the fact that he's feeling loss doesn't seem to make me feel any happier and it doesn't appear to increase the likelihood that we'll reconcile in the future. I'm just sharing that so you can see the same could potentially happen in your case. It seems like it would help to bring closure when the other person feels loss, but strangely enough it doesn't seem to work that way.
I dont want to reconcile. Really. I wish people would believe me when i say this. PDWIFE is a toxic manipulator. All i want is to know MY best methods and knowledge to keep myself emotionally defended when she decides to manipulate again. It will happen. Past Patterns Prove this.
M: 35, EX-W: 3, S:4 All Divorce Proceedings Complete - Oct 18 ----------------------------------------------------- 2nd EX - Was Engaged - Diagnosed BPD 2 Major breakups. 2 Rebounds
Do i miss her sometimes? Yea, i do. Do i wish we were still together and happy? Yes. Do i recognize the massive abuse she put me through? You bet. Would i allow such abuse again? Never Can i recognize that despite missing her, or R is dead and she is an abusive partner, and i deserve better? YES.
Do i have the right to want to know as much as I can to keep myself safe and healing? Yes. I do.
Does that mean that I want her back, that I am obsessed or deliberately denying detachment? No. It doesnt.
M: 35, EX-W: 3, S:4 All Divorce Proceedings Complete - Oct 18 ----------------------------------------------------- 2nd EX - Was Engaged - Diagnosed BPD 2 Major breakups. 2 Rebounds
Why is it nobody can seem to believe that I want knowledge about how she will act / react for the sole purpose of keeping myself emotionally defended?
Because we've all been there. Because we can see in your stream of consciousness posts that there is still that pull of caring about what she is feeling/thinking. Because true detachment means you don't give a single bit about her feeling of loss, whether she stays with OM or not, etc. And until we truly detach, then we are still attached.
Anyway, again, I knew how'd you answer. I was looking for you to do some self reflection is all. Her thoughts, feelings, emotions, sense of loss, lack of sense of loss has ZERO to do with your emotional state. Unless you let it have an effect.
OK, you're going to be okay because you work hard at it. All we are doing is trying to help you with the journey.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
OrangeK, I interpreted your last few messages to read that you want your wife to feel loss and to realize what she's done but I didn't see anything that indicated you want her back. It seems pretty clear it's too late for you to want her back. I apologize if my message seemed to respond to the wrong point - I was just trying to say that my husband is kind of doing what you wish your wife would do but it doesn't seem to be helping me to feel much better (or worse, or anything at all).
OrangeK, I interpreted your last few messages to read that you want your wife to feel loss and to realize what she's done but I didn't see anything that indicated you want her back. It seems pretty clear it's too late for you to want her back. I apologize if my message seemed to respond to the wrong point - I was just trying to say that my husband is kind of doing what you wish your wife would do but it doesn't seem to be helping me to feel much better (or worse, or anything at all).
Nicole, no need to apologize. I just saw where you mentioned reconcillation. It seemed like you thought that was still my goal.
I appreciate you letting me know that seeing it happen isnt helping. that is useful.
M: 35, EX-W: 3, S:4 All Divorce Proceedings Complete - Oct 18 ----------------------------------------------------- 2nd EX - Was Engaged - Diagnosed BPD 2 Major breakups. 2 Rebounds
Do i miss her sometimes? Yea, i do. Do i wish we were still together and happy? Yes. Do i recognize the massive abuse she put me through? You bet. Would i allow such abuse again? Never Can i recognize that despite missing her, or R is dead and she is an abusive partner, and i deserve better? YES.
Do i have the right to want to know as much as I can to keep myself safe and healing? Yes. I do.
Does that mean that I want her back, that I am obsessed or deliberately denying detachment? No. It doesnt.
Agree with everything except: "Do i have the right to want to know as much as I can to keep myself safe and healing? Yes. I do."
First, knowing as much as you can has zero to do with being safe and healing. Second, a "right" is still trying to exert control over her. In reality you have no right to knowledge she doesn't want to share. Why? Because you cannot control her. Second, because no one EVER knows the entire truth. This is even true when you are in a MR with another person! That is why self-differentiation is so important in a MR. You cannot control the other person. They are going to think what they want, feel what they want, and do what they want. When we are unhealthily attached is when we feel out of control when we can't control our spouse. When we are self-differentiated then we are healthy and safe despite what we don't know.
This is especially true once we encounter a WAS scenario. This is why detachment is so important. Because that separation, for the overly attached, is a scary place to be. And without differentiating....without detaching, we will emotionally continued to hold on for dear life.
The only right you have is the right to know anything that affects your son's well-being. Above and beyond that, there is no such thing as a right to knowledge.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
OK, I follow your sitch and have only commented a few times.
MHO, I think what everyone is trying to get across to you is that you cannot prepare yourself for every situation that might arise from your stbxw's actions. Working on yourself is the best defense for everything. If you are good with you, what does it matter what she does or how she acts? If she creates a situation, and you are in a great place personally and you are again good with who you are, you will simply shrug off her actions since outside of her being the mother of your child, she doesn't matter to you any more emotionally. See where I am going?
WAY easier said than done and I struggle with this DAILY myself. BUT, each day I see myself detaching more and better than that, I feel myself getting stronger within myself and re-discovering who I am again.
Somedays are still rollercoaster he!!. And others are just the ones you are down. I do my best to keep my head up around my W and children (we still live in the same home). Not overly enthusiastic unless something good truly happens, and definitely not faking it.
My point is that no one is telling you that you want to control her. It just seems like you are way to attached to what she might do or act. Don't let her be the center of your world any longer. Your innermost circle is you and your child. Period.
Take care of you. Take care of your child. The rest will take care of itself.
This isn't easy and there are many here pulling for you and I see the improvements you have made over the past months.
M51 W44 T21 M18 D14 S11 BD date 9/17 W filed 02/18 W withdrew petition following week In house separation 03/18 In Limbo and DB'ing since 03/18 W is moving out by mid Nov 2018 A drawing up paperwork 11/18
OK, I follow your sitch and have only commented a few times.
MHO, I think what everyone is trying to get across to you is that you cannot prepare yourself for every situation that might arise from your stbxw's actions. Working on yourself is the best defense for everything. If you are good with you, what does it matter what she does or how she acts? If she creates a situation, and you are in a great place personally and you are again good with who you are, you will simply shrug off her actions since outside of her being the mother of your child, she doesn't matter to you any more emotionally. See where I am going?
WAY easier said than done and I struggle with this DAILY myself. BUT, each day I see myself detaching more and better than that, I feel myself getting stronger within myself and re-discovering who I am again.
Somedays are still rollercoaster he!!. And others are just the ones you are down. I do my best to keep my head up around my W and children (we still live in the same home). Not overly enthusiastic unless something good truly happens, and definitely not faking it.
My point is that no one is telling you that you want to control her. It just seems like you are way to attached to what she might do or act. Don't let her be the center of your world any longer. Your innermost circle is you and your child. Period.
Take care of you. Take care of your child. The rest will take care of itself.
This isn't easy and there are many here pulling for you and I see the improvements you have made over the past months.
"and there are many here pulling for you" So true! I am probably overly attached to your sitch OK, because I so want to see you "safe and healing" as you say. I have invested more emotionally into your sitch than anyone else's here save my own! That is why when you react strongly, my initial response is to pull back. Because maybe I am too emotionally invested in a sitch I have no say in. But JS nailed it on the head.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Why is it nobody can seem to believe that I want knowledge about how she will act / react for the sole purpose of keeping myself emotionally defended?
Because we've all been there. Because we can see in your stream of consciousness posts that there is still that pull of caring about what she is feeling/thinking. Because true detachment means you don't give a single bit about her feeling of loss, whether she stays with OM or not, etc. And until we truly detach, then we are still attached.
Anyway, again, I knew how'd you answer. I was looking for you to do some self reflection is all. Her thoughts, feelings, emotions, sense of loss, lack of sense of loss has ZERO to do with your emotional state. Unless you let it have an effect.
OK, you're going to be okay because you work hard at it. All we are doing is trying to help you with the journey.
I know youre helping Steve, and you do help. A lot. Its just tough because i have explained this several times, and its frustrating to mean and believe something and have nobody take you seriously about it.
I dont 100% agree with this.
"there is still that pull of caring about what she is feeling/thinking. Because true detachment means you don't give a single bit about her feeling of loss, whether she stays with OM or not, etc"
I dont care about her FEELING of loss. It comes down to he justice / karma thing. She simply doesn't deserve to get anything she wants, or feel successful in her R with OM. I dont care if she is with OM. thats a fact i accepted a long time ago.
Hammurabi's Code. thats all I want to see occur Steve. Its only fair. I seek balance.
"Her thoughts, feelings, emotions, sense of loss, lack of sense of loss has ZERO to do with your emotional state. Unless you let it have an effect."
Agreed. I had a hard emotional spin out last night. You can see it building in my posts yesterday, when i got to my "Explaining Anger" post, i was calling myself a 3.5 out of 5 on my "Anger Scale" I reached critical mass last night, and then had a HARD cry with SIL.
SIL, Brother and I had a long chat about anger and emotion. i explained it like this.
My anger is a bucket under a gutter. It eventually fills, and tips over and spills. In the past, it would only fill when there was a "Downpour" or some external event that was actively making me angry. This was a very very rare occurrence. maybe once or twice a year? However since BD, i get "Steady rain". Even if there is no "Downpour" type of event occurring, the bucket still slowly fills a bit each day, seemingly for no reason. When it starts getting close to full during these "Slow fills" i start feeling the anxiety symptoms outlined in my "stages of anger" post. Then its just a matter of time before the bucket is to full not to spill over, even without an external event "filling" it. these "Slow fills" never happened before or with PDWIFE, but since the emotional damage and scarring, it has become a fairly predictable cycle.
Still waiting to hear back from IC, and a few new ones i called. I need to discuss detachment, trauma bond healing, anger issues, self-image issues and possible meds with a professional. I feel if i do not i will keep just running the same circle. Bucket fill, Bucket Spill, Bucket chill. Bucket Fill, Bucket Spill, Bucket Chill.
F**K it, i dont want the bucket.
I want to plant a flower garden under the gutter instead. TO filter the the "Rain" that is my anger, into beautiful growing things.
M: 35, EX-W: 3, S:4 All Divorce Proceedings Complete - Oct 18 ----------------------------------------------------- 2nd EX - Was Engaged - Diagnosed BPD 2 Major breakups. 2 Rebounds
You're out for blood and revenge and anger. None of that is ever going to help you. You need to figure out how to get past it and deal with it. She may never feel loss. She may go on to have a fabulous life filled with everything she wants. Yeh, life is unfair. Get over it. I am not trying to be flippant, but you get caught in loops and you need to develop a strategy to figure how not to get caught in that web. That's the pattern I've seen with you.
Also, here is the best thing I have heard about revenge and anger - it is a poison you feed yourself believing the other person will die.
Waiting for karma/justice is like trying to cook an egg on the pavement in winter. It's not going to happen in your timeline. there is absolutely no sense in waiting for it.
