"Thanks for sharing your feelings openly. You have not often done that. I hope you realize that you should not be and should have never been ashamed of your feelings."
Me:49 XW:41, M:18 years, Kids: S18,S14 BD:JULY 2017, W moved out: DEC 2017 Filed for D: APR 2019, D Final: JULY 2019
Hi Kiro, no problem re the questions, I'm done with the M because I could never trust W again and the pesron i thought she was is gone. I communicate though email because its recorded and it's not instant so thought needs to be put into if. Its not i dont care , it's.more that i dont know that person so while.i have compassion its not my issue. As I said i will lend money but not support. I think there comes a point when as an LBS you know that your werent the real problem and the WAS has to live their reality and accept what that brings. I'm not discounting my part in the M failure but I'm also not owning it as 100% me. For me letting go was the wisest advice i got from this site. It is not easy but if you accept you have absolutely no control.of the situation then you let go or spend forever on the sorry-go-round, wallowing in the victim mentality. I see posters on here for years , still with the poor me attitude while telling everyone how strong they are.. if you look up Sottos posts or Vanillia you will see really strong people who strive to move forward and live their lives to the fullest. Sometimes they struggle but the genuine strength is there clear to.see. never once do you see these really strong people state their strength because they simply don't need to.
As for.your Ws recent post , that's her reality today, is it reality for you ? , it doesn't matter, it's hers and you have no control over her feelings or reality. Do you need to respond , no. Imho she is.looking to justify her choices and wants you to agree., again for her to feel good about her choices. You are hurt , confused and lost, step back , follow DBs advice and live your Life, enjoy your life and be the lighthouse,. This may bring her back but it will most defiantly bring you back to you living your life.
As cadet says you have the gift of time to become the best person , dad , etc that you can possibly be. Use that time and relax back from W and her reality. A very good friend told me after BD that i would be happy again and I honestly.am, i never thought i would post that but its true.
As for dating , that's for the future and you will know when its time. If i could offer my one realisation that changed things for me it was when i realised W had accepted that we were finished. Once i graped that fact it made moving forward the only option.
I would advise not sending anything to your W , not because you 'are try to control/ influence her but because she might / Will perceive it that way and that will not help no matter you think.
Kiro - there is no point in sending that first message for sure. Her foggy mind will not pay attention that long and she just won’t care about it. Imagine a kid getting a letcure.
Her message is full of her explaining her justification, her reasoning.
I have had similar conversations with my W (here are a few):
- I know it hurts now but it will be better later.
- Living authentically, my W blew up five lives. (You should not have to destroy someone else to live authentically).
- She was sad and this was her chance at happiness.
You W ended her message with I hope we will be friends and have a beautiful and peaceful divorce. She is living a reality that the different from normal folk. The is nothing beautiful or peaceful about divorce.
RD500 is correct - everything is for the LBS to heal, restoration of M is a bonus. You are also correct - all LBS here start out wanting / would do anything to save their M.
Focusing on you, detaching, letting go, gal Is all for healing the LBS. Whether an LBS stands or not, they need to do something like this to get back on their feet.
Standing is for the LBS to allow time for the MLC to do what they need to do. For the LBS to do all they can do to save their marriage. To follow their beliefs and vow.
These work really well together at the beginning. We need to heal which takes time, and we want to stand which give us time.
As the LBS gets more and more healed, the question of how long to stand becomes greater and greater.
For myself, how long would I stand? I do not know. I do not see myself as a covenant keeper, standing till the day I die. However I also do not not see myself doing that. I use the double negative because that is accurate. Right now all I see is not changing course. When I do see myself doing <something>, I will change course. And I mean - do see myself doing, not can see myself doing.
Trying to figure out the MLCers mind is dangerous. Be careful it will drive you bonkers (I love Job’s advice).
To be able to rationally think about, or rationalize, your W’s irrational behaviour and thoughts you need to think like her. You’d have to become irrational to rationalize her point of view.
In her reality nothing is wrong. Things do get confused now and then when old memories surface and conflicting emotions occur. The hope is that more and more of that happens and eventually they realize something is wrong. It takes a lot of pain and torment for a MLCer to finally look inside themselves. Not many (willing) considers themselves to be the villain in their own story. Hence the replay behaviour to keep the focus off themselves (internally) - the opposite of what the LBS does.
I am sorry Kiro you asked for specific advice and I got all rambling.
The second message is better. I would not send that either.
Originally Posted by Kiro
Thanks for sharing your feelings openly. You have not often done that. I hope you realize that you should not be and should have never been ashamed of your feelings.
You have not often done that. - Sounds confrontational and argumentative.
I hope you realize that you should... - Do not tell her what to do. And if you do, do not do it patronizingly.
... never be ashamed of your feelings - I am thinking she should be ashamed of what she has done and her feelings. I know she is not. I also believe you should not condone these particular feelings. Validate her feelings, just don’t condone.
So maybe,
Thank you for the letter and sharing your feelings with me.
I am sorry for your suffering when <mother> passed away.
Kiro
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
I am living most of my days doing other things and not thinking about my W or M at all. From time to time, I am curious about certain things so I can look it up on the net or I write a post to share what comes to my mind.
But I am happy with my life. I am busy and I am satisfied with who I am. I came a very long way compared to where I was a year ago. I feel almost fully detached from W.
But as new things I have never experienced before arise, I don't always know how to handle them. For example, I have never gone through mediation or divorce before. It's a new experience for me. So I ask and I learn from others.
Same thing about today's letter. This is a first since BD a year ago. I wasn't sure what the best approach would be. So I asked.
There is a big difference between being unsure about the best course of action and being hurt, confused or lost. I have very big responsibilities in my job and I have to make major decisions all the time. Sometimes, when I face a new problem, I am unsure what the best decision is. I seek information and I ask. Then, I usually trust my gut feeling and I make my decision. Am I always right? No, but it doesn't really matter. Life goes on and I move on and I try to learn and do better the next time.
As I said, I am not fully detached but almost there. My W's behavior doesn't affect me emotionally anymore or very little.
But W moved out only 8 months ago, I am still married, we still haven't split any assets, and we'll start the mediation sessions in 1 week. It is normal that a lot of this is on my mind at least part of the time.
"Never once do you see these really strong people state their strength because they simply don't need to." Not sure what you mean by this. I guess your comment could apply to me because I am claiming that I'm not confused and that I am happy, etc. To be honest, you are entitled to your opinion. I don't really care who you think is strong. I don't even care if I am strong with your own definition or not. I am happy for me and I follow my own beliefs.
Am I totally over W/M and am I totally ready to move forward/on? Maybe not, but I am getting there and I feel great about the progress that I have made for the past 6 months.
For you, it's been 4 years. For me, it's been 1. Am I happy 100%? Maybe not, but I am not far from that. I definitely feel much more at peace than the last few years of my marriage. I feel that I am a much better person and I have found myself again.
How much do I want her back? To be honest, it doesn't really matter to me anymore, but many times, I almost force to tell myself that R would still be the best solution.
Do I feel like a victim? Sometimes I do, but most of the time no. Like you, I realize that it takes 2 to make a M work and it takes 2 for it not to work. I have already faced myself and looked at all the things I did wrong. I know my part. But like you say, it's not me 100%. But I don't really feel like a victim. She made a choice. Is it wrong or is it right? It's a complicated question and almost becomes a philosophical one. so I won't even try to answer it.
The important thing is that everyone has free choice. She made her choice. And I am making mine too. I can't control her. And she can't control me. I'm cool with that
Last, I am not sure what you mean by living life to its fullest. People are different. Everyone has his own meaning of life. Someone could decide to be a monk and spend his meditating in a monastery and that for him means living life to its fullest. Someone else might need to travel the world to get such a fulfillment. So I don't judge anyone. I let others live their life the way they want.
Peace
Me:49 XW:41, M:18 years, Kids: S18,S14 BD:JULY 2017, W moved out: DEC 2017 Filed for D: APR 2019, D Final: JULY 2019
Well, I already sent my version. So I can't take that back I don't really care honestly. She will take it the way she will. I have zero expectations either way.
IMO, we shouldn't feel ashamed of our feelings because we don't control them. Feelings come to us even if we don't want to. What we can control are our behaviors and reactions to those feelings. I am not sure she will understand the nuance, but that's really her problem at that point. She used to be a smart person
I agree that it is dangerous trying to figure out a MLCer's mind. I sometimes enjoy the exercise though while at the same time, I know that whatever I think doesn't mean a thing because she is totally irrational. I don't base any of my decisions on what she says or what she does.
I like your approach about standing. Same for me. I don't think I'll stand till I die. It's not something that bothers me either way now. The only real difference between Standing and Not Standing is getting involved in a new relationship. Other than that, I am moving forward with my life anyway and letting her go.
When I will feel that I am ready for a new relationship, I will stop Standing and decide it's time for me to find someone else. Or maybe it will happen the other way around. Maybe when I find someone else, I'll decide that I'm done with Standing
Me:49 XW:41, M:18 years, Kids: S18,S14 BD:JULY 2017, W moved out: DEC 2017 Filed for D: APR 2019, D Final: JULY 2019
Standing vs Stepping Down. The only thing in limbo is a relationship with that “one” person. Everything else goes right along (more or less). Hmmmm. That is a lot easier than all the not not double negatives.
I do understand and see your view on feelings being uncontrollable. I also get that you see we can control our behaviours and reactions. I think you mean responses - reactions are, well reactionary in nature and less controlled. At any rate I get what you’re saying.
I do believe feelings are changeable and some what in our control. Feelings lead to thoughts, as well as thoughts leading to feelings. If we are mad and think happier thoughts do we not get less mad?
For sure feelings are real to the person experiencing them and should not be dismissed. I do admit I have had shameful feelings and yes they are real and I am ashamed. So I work to change my behaviour and thoughts so as to not have those unwanted feelings.
In truth I was not going to put in the change about she should feel ashamed. I decided to because your viewpoint is open and honest, and I know you’ll share your reasoning. In this limited medium of conversation that is the only way to get to know someone. I do like reading your views by the way.
There is nothing wrong with you sending your message, and your message was fine. I was just critiquing and offering other ideas. You are the one who has to live them, and I think you are doing a d@mn fine job.
Kiro, we have not “known” each other for long, and even with that I sense good feelings about you from the way you post. Your last post to RD500 was a bit off from your previous ones. It kind of set off my radar.
Is everything ok?
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Re:response versus reaction, you are correct. English is my 3rd language, so sometimes my words are not very accurate. Thanks for correcting me.
I see what you mean about feelings. I agree.
What I felt with my sentence to W is mostly about her feeling sad inside during our marriage and probably all her life, but hiding it and trying to show a happy face to everyone. She always hid her feelings deep down as if she was ashamed of her feelings.
Re:sendind my message. I like the version you proposed but I had already sent it. The message I sent is not perfect, but it is truthful and represents me. I am not seeking anything from her. I often follow my intuition and my gut feeling and this is what I did.
Re:message to rd500. Sorry if it was off. True. It’s not my usual tone. I have to work on myself a little more to be more careful with my words.
Me:49 XW:41, M:18 years, Kids: S18,S14 BD:JULY 2017, W moved out: DEC 2017 Filed for D: APR 2019, D Final: JULY 2019
Hi Kiro , firstly please don't change your words because of me , imho you read lots in to my post that wasn't there. My mentioning people who wallow was not about you so apologies if thats how i made it sound. It was perhaps an example of a road not to go down but i obviously didn't make that clear enough. I pointed out Sotto and vanilla as examples of two people on here I admire and whos example i tried to follow. Both posters would not date until they were legally D.
You took , lost , angry etc very personally and again apologies, if some one asked me today how i feel about Ws actions to myself and especially my four children ( who she left) , I'm lost why she did it , im angry for my kids about it and sad for their childhood. However im not sure how you translated that into my judging your whole life..
With the greatest respect i will bow out of your post because my intention was not to trigger you and make you so defensive. I sincerely hope you achieve your goals re your M and life in general but i would not recommend the Monk thing !!
