My story. Advice needed

[SteveLW]

I disagree about counseling. Going to counseling with a W who is in an open A is a complete waste of time and money.

NOTE: I did not endorse going to MC with her. Just want to make that clear.....but attending an IC session of hers I see no problem with.

[sandi2]

Sandi,

i dont mean to hijack Lane's thread, but is that disrespect and rebellion born completely out of the resentment that has built up over the years by the WW? I have a WW in the midst of a MLC. Im starting to believe she gets a rush out of disrespecting me, sneaking around with OM, and leaving trinkets that I believe are from OM but dont have proof, right out in the open in front of me. Im doing a lot of reading but still get confused about the entire pic. So i guess the rules for me are tough love, dont hang out(decline any invite?), set boundaries, and GAL? My wife has been cake eating for a long time unfortunately.

Id appreciate any advice you have about my sitch,mythread

Hi, I just saw your post on Lane's thread. First, I want to ask you something. Why do you believe your W is having a MLC? I'm not disagreeing, I just wondered why.

Yes, I believe it all starts with resentment that W has pushed down in her heart. It may be something she knows would sound petty if she talked about it, so it's never resolved, and it grows as other resentments come along. Maybe she has tried to talk about certain resentments, but her H doesn't understand her language, b/c women are bad to talk in code. Carrying this resentment in her heart prepares the way for feelings of disrespect. I can always tell when a woman is displaying some level of disrespectful feelings about her H. She'll use a certain tone of voice when directed at him; she'll talk at him through the children; roll her eyes; belittle him in front of others; makes fun of him; display a bad attitude toward him; etc. These are small (but extremely important) examples of a woman who doesn't respect him as a man. That's how it starts out in many cases, and the signs may get worse as the years go by, if the H doesn't put a stop to it. He can't help the feelings in her heart, but he can stop her from showing disrespect for him.

I think one problem is that men give the W a pass when she shows some little sign of disrespect. I think with nice guys, they don't see it as her disrespecting him, but IDK. I think he makes excuses, b/c he doesn't know how to stop it, and he doesn't want to confront her....b/c he doesn't have enough manly confidence....and he knows she has ran the show for a long time. He puts it off to her to being in a "mood", and thinks if he gives it enough time, she'll change and things will be fine. But, it's never resolved, and it's paving the road for a M crises. It may be some resentment that started 20 years ago, and every disappointment/resentment since then, was just added to the pile. Somewhere along the way, she stops seeing him as a man she respects. She is critical of him, compares him to other men, blames him for all her unhappiness, and will challenge him. All these previous examples I gave about ways she can act out, are nothing less than her testing him to see if he is man enough to stand up to her! If she reaches the point that she is not concerned about consequences for her bad treatment of her H, then the M is in serious trouble. I hope you understand what I mean by that statement. I'm not suggesting anything violent, but I do believe there should be consequences for bad behavior, especially when the offense is repeated.

Eventually, the WW is going to do some action that shows more rebellion, worse than her usual behavior. It may be her and girlfriends going out and acting like Girls Gone Wild, flirting with men, or going home with one. Whenever a wife does some behavior that she knows is seen as inappropriate for a married lady...….you can mark it down, she is rebelling against her MR. Just like your W staying out every night of the week until around 4:00 a.m. She's rebelling. She has lost all concern for her H's feelings regarding her activities. She's not happy with her MR. She doesn't respect her H as a man, so she's rebelling. What will he do about it? If she is not one bit concerned about how her H will react to her behavior...….this is about as critical as their MR can get. I don't mean other terrible things can't happen, but I am speaking about her not having any concern or worry about the consequences for her not behaving like a married lady. I don't apologize for being old school, FWIW, and I'll just tell you up front......her H is probably in for the worst time of his life when she no longer cares what he thinks about it. Before women's lib, the old timers use say the H had lost control over his W, but you have to be careful about using that C word around here. You will be told very quickly that you can't control anyone but yourself. However, you can have influence.

If she's wayward, the H probably never had much influence, due to his passive, nice-guy ways. Like other people, his W takes advantage of his nice ways. And, he can't lead what won't follow him. He lost his leadership (if he ever had it) over his W, and now she's going to take him to hell and back, b/c she has lost all admiration/respect for him as a man......not to mention as her H.

The longer I study this wayward wife problem, that seems to dominate the MR forums these days, the more I see how it appears to be paired with the H who has some level of NGS. I'm not saying every nice guy will have a WW. I'm just saying that it seems that WW's have a nice guy H. If any of you see a thread about a wayward W who suffers at the hand of a mean, controlling, jealous, sorry H......please notify me, b/c I don't think I've seen that dynamic yet. The women who have those type of H's may become a walk-away wife, if they decide to get out of the M. BTW, I'm certainly not suggesting that's the cure for waywardness is to become a mean, controlling, jealous, sorry H! I'm just making an observation I think is interesting.

Sorry, I'm making this post too long. Your W gets her thrill out of having a secret affair. Affairs are addictive, b/c of the chemical reaction in the brain cells. Research PEAS.

Implement the 37 rules, GAL like there's no tomorrow, and enforce boundaries. Stop trying to prove how much you love her, and start proving how much self-respect you have. Don't be a WW pleaser. Don't compromise your integrity, or your core beliefs.

[ballast]

Sandi...so here is what I want, actually would LOVE to know. And apologies in advance for the hijack equalzr. Can you explain/describe how a loving, well meaning, sometimes unknowing husband would proactively address these displays of disrespect? Call her out, walk away, silent treatment, etc? As I've said before in one post you stated men aren't good at understanding a rational woman so we have even less chance understanding a WW. Let's assume we men also don't then "catch" all of the ways W's disrespect us. As you say what W would want her H to become mean, controlling, jealous, etc...so between being a complete jerk and a complete pushover, perhaps from a woman's perspective you can provide us some insight into how we could most effectively handle some of that disrespectfulness so maybe we can prevent ourselves from coming back here in future relationships due to the same causes.

And if what I'm asking makes no sense, please accept my apologies in advance. I'm truly trying to learn effective skills for managing scenarios as you describe.

[equalzr]

Sandi,

Thanks for taking the time to look at my sitch. Ive looked at a lot of your posts and have learned a lot from you experience on the subject.

I believe my wife (WW), is in the middle of a MLC because she basically fits every criteria on the checklist. Also, before discovering these forums, I found a writeup about the book Women's Infidelity, living in limbo. It described my W to a tee. It took me a while but i shared a review about the book with her, and she was actually happy, and said that she finally knew what was happening to her, and that she wasnt just 1 bad person. I was a bit surprised, but was has happy that we both had a real answer for whatever was going on. Ive since done a ton of research on MLC through other sources. She seems to fit the classic mold: around 35-45 years old, felt like she was missing out on life, internally unhappy w M and H, started dressing and behaving like she was 20, made choice to have an A, has rewritten our history, lies upon lies that dont begin to sound rational, resentment and rebellion are there, blames me for everything wrong in the world, treats our S differently and spends more time away from him than i know she ever would(he has always been her world), she has said she feels like she needs to be perfect, has decided to be selfish because shes done so much for the family and now its time for her... i could go on and on and i know im missing important info, but from what ive studied she seems to be in a MLC.


My W definitely has a lot of resentments that have built up over the years. Being the main bread winner for aboit 9 years(i did it before that), not paid enough attention throughout R, and me not going back to school and preparing myself to make better money like she did. I believe those resenments kept building, her heart kept hardening, and eventually she began detaching from M(my opinion). Also, as i know you have said in your posts about this type of R, she definitely lost her respect for me. Looking back at it, i know she did. Im not mr nice guy, but i definitely put my family before anything else and have been a good man but have my blemishes like most. I know she has said she felt like the man because she was supporting everyone, so I guess that means she didnt view me in that light anymore. Definitely lost respect for me as her H. Im not sure if its true or not, but ive read that if this is a MLC, there was nothing I could do about it to stop it. It would happen no matter what.

I enjoy your "old school" approach, so thank you! But you are right, ive definitely been in the worse time of my life. The last 1.5+ years have been the worst of my life. It feels like ive been trapped in a nightmare and cant wake up, almost looking in from the outside. Ive said it feels like being a ghost and trying to tell someone something is getting ready to happen but they cant hear me or see me waving my arms in front of them. All very surreal.

As for my wife's personality in general before this you could say she definitely is strong minded and stubborn. So maybe that could be where the NG feel comes from, being that shes a woman who wont back down if it ckmes down to it. That said, we rarely if ever had issues throughout the 20 years we have been together, meaning we didnt argue or fight. I was laid back for most of it, so maybe that could be where NG comes in at?

Yes, she decided that she was unhappy, detatched from marriage over a few years(my guess) and decided to have A with old bf when he reached out since she was done with us. A has been going on for the entire 1.5 years she has been rebelling in M. Seems it started out as an EA and quickly grew unto a PA, and has since been going 100mph. They seem head over heels for each other. W definitely doesnt seem like the same person to me though, shes done things i would have never thought she would to our family, and acts competely different from the person I know from the messages I saw to OM when I was snooping to confirm A in the past.

[equalzr]

I forgot to mention that her shopping has been out of control. Clothes aftet clothes aftet clothes come home. She is obsessed with being young and sexy. To her credit she is beautiful and looks young, but the shopping definitely seems like a sign of something else. I dont think we go 2 days without something new coming home.

On a side note, i can almost literally see the high she gets from her A at times. Its almost like she cant be still and is floating around the house. Happy as can be. This is all while shes getting ready to go out as if i dont know where shes headed. I literally feel like im married to an addict of some type. Being rational is out the window, marriage vows dont matter, and shes going to get that fix no matter what.

[equalzr]

I blew it by not keeping quiet tonight. My W basically has gotten to the point where she leaves every evening and comes home late even when shes not out all night. She'll stroll in at 11/12 on her early nights. Shes basically started splitting time between houses, living a double life. I was initially going to do some boundary setting and it spiraled into more talking about where she is going every night than boundary setting. Obviously it didnt end well. Im just completely disgusted by what she does.

Its funny because during the talk she pulled the kind of blank stare and not saying anything the entire time. Straight out of the playbook.

Ill do better.

[LANE777]

equalizer,
I tend to do the exact same thing. I want to have a decent conversation and it always turns into me asking to many questions when I shouldn't even care. She then gets quiet and if Im in person she won't even look at me.
I keep re-reading what Sandi told me about a WW. She is not the girl I married and she is not to be trusted. She is a different creature all together. And then the other stuff. You can not reason with her no matter what. My W is starting the paper work and is on a fast track to D.
Keep up the good work. You've been dealing with it for a long time. I still think she is in a comfort zone with you. Where she comes and goes and doesn't have respect for your feelings. WW don't care what you think. I keep saying this but the woman I married is gone. She left 3 months ago at the flip of a switch. So of course I still think I can reason with her after 19 years and NOPE. I get shut down immediately.
You hang in there and be smart. Plan your next move but don't dwell on it. Get out with your boy and find some fun. Your the solid parent and he knows it. There might be someone waiting for you out there that will love and treat you both very very good. Time to let go. If God really wants you 2 together it will happen. If not, then you will be fine. I ve read your posts and know you have patience and strength. You W is like my W. They are like a 25 amp draw of our energy and ambition. They consume our minds with negative thoughts and hopelessness that we won't let go of. I am new here and really want to bust this D thats coming my way. But I have to follow the rules and let go and get on with my life.
If she comes around then great. If not then I am already moving on. I don't want to live my life like this for very long. I don't think you do either. Good luck this weekend and be strong!!!!

[equalzr]

W let me know that she plans on filing. I knew this would be coming eventually. Shes built a relationship with another man and his child over 1.5 years. Yes it hurts, but i wasnt shocked at all. This was obviously in the making for a long time. W basically dated this man and tested the watrrs out for a long time while being married to me, and then decided she prefers the life she lives with OM better.

GAL has been a little up and down for me. Im spending a lot of time working on my career future the last few days, but my mind seems to always wander back to W and our sitch. Setting boundaries with her didnt go well, it ended up with her letting me know that she plans on filing and that our bed isnt our "marital bed". That just blew my mind. Actually, thats probably what i should have expected? They wont respond well to boundaries, but i have to stick to my guns.

I guess i have to remember the "paper Tigress" analogy, and to remember that i dont have anything to lose anyhow. She lied (i know i know) up until the last couple months about wanting to work on th M, which i knew wasnt true, and always said splitting wasnt what she wanted. So this is a change, and i can see R with OM is in overdrive. From the outside it seems they are half way down the aisle.

Sorry for venting. I have some good days and some bad as expected.

[equalzr]

Just out of curiosity, does anyone here know if there is a correlation between MLC/WW and eyes darting around. Ive noticed that my W doesnt really hold eye contacy w/ me anymore(probably in part to the life shes living(A and lying)?), but also that her eyes seem to just dart around rapidly when she is telling me something. Its weird because i know shes lied/lying to everyone involved, myself, OM, her parents, i think siblings are getting half truths, and she also lies to our S about whereabouts and what not.

Similarly, i noticed ever since this ordeal started she always wears sunglasses. I dont know if this doesnt have anything to do with anything, but I get the feeling its some connection with being sneaky, hiding, etc. Shes never used them before and now she has them on even when its darn near dark out. I almost feel like she thinks shes putting on some type of mask, and thst she gets a high out of the entire thing.

Just some out loud thinking by me.

[neffer]

Have you ever thought of using a Darth Vader´s helmet? Just the helmet, there´s no need of the laser in this instance.