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Originally Posted by Vanilla
Pain

Ju mentioned your sitch to me and I am dropping in to read your sitch.

I want to be very straight with you, your W isn't a WW (wayward) but a WAW (walkaway).

Do not treat W as wayward. That it the worst of all treatments for a walkaway. If anyone here refers to your W as wayward then make sure you understand that she isn't.

The standard advice in DB and DR applies to you, I trust you have read them over and over again. If not you should.

You are in pain because of your shame and underlying FOO. This clearly needs addressing otherwise I think this can't be resolved. You are here wanting to repair your M and that alone makes you the one who concerns me most.

The roots of the shame and FOO have somehow lead you to rating yourself as a man based on sexual performance. And the sexual drive means you are self soothing with sex. I don't judge we all have our outlets and a high drive is certainly mine. Sex for its own sake is one way of coping and I am not adverse to it as an outlet. The issue I think is that this behaviour represents more than that to you and will get in the way of true connection.

You want to repair your M, that M is over. And you will have to seek a new M with W, to do that it is obvious to me that you will have to become a man only a fool would leave. And your current acting out to resolve the FOO and shame is just going to drive you further into a mire.

Of course sexuality is important but more important is connection. And love of your precious D3. For this alone for you to become a dad of true merit, your values have to be addressed.

For some reason your boundaries and ethics seem skewed, but these aren't a reason for you to escape the consequences of your behaviour. It's putting your big boy pants on despite the pain and addressing the shame and FOO.

For that reason YOU must work on YOU. Otherwise within a short period of time you will be back here or repeating the loop.

And go get tested, immediately.

V



Oh God...the more I learn about what my role was in this, the worse I feel...

Ok...I just got the DB/DR books today. I'm going to spend a lovely evening with my D4 and once she goes to sleep, I'll start reading. Between these and the No More Mr. Nice Guy books, I have a lot of reading and learning to do.

First thing is first. I looked up formally what a WAW is. Nailed it. I don't know more more to say.

FOO is something that I have been working on for YEARS. Long before I met my W, long before she got pregnant, and long before we split. In that time, I've been through waves of angry phone calls with them, many therapy sessions, numerous discussions with the W about my treatment at their hands. And just until March 2018, I battled to make peace with them and myself. I did that on that March day when I finally told both of them about my history with them, what happened, and what resulted. I finally got that huge weight off my shoulders. Now, since the split, I've been talking to them constantly about this part of my life. Being conservative Muslim, they are praying for all of us. But they also know what happened, about their roles in our split, about mine, and what they can teach me about their 38 years of marriage. Sexuality when I was a child was, as you venture to guess, a huge taboo in our conservative family. To the point where I learned about sex mostly on my own and hiding my "shame" of exploring my sexuality from them. This went on well after college before I met my W. And as referenced in my first post, she was my first. So there was bound to be trouble. Masturbation was my sexual gratification well through the marriage. It wasn't until W got pregnant and the lack of sex was when I realized that I was missing more than a release. I was missing the connection. Once we started having sex again, it was less and less frequent. To the point where it just stopped. By the time I felt I was ready...and you all know this...it was too late. She left. And 20/20 hindsight was a painful reminder of what I did to f**k it all up. So...the provider is what I have as an outlet now. And...I know details don't matter. Sex is sex, but the forms of release has been non-penetrative. That being said, I know it's all the same. It's considered "cheating". I will get tested (tomorrow is perfect since I am seeing the doctor). As of right now, I don't have plans to see her again.

To be honest, I want to repair ME. I have a legal marriage right now. I don't know what's going to happen. I am leaving the rest to a higher power. I'm working on myself while reading the books. How is it going to end? I don't know. And I don't think anyone here does either. I don't control that and neither do any of you. So, all I CAN do is to work on ME. Through these books, through GAL, through building a stronger relationship with my daughter, through learning more about my job, through exercise, and through self-discovery. But deep down...deep deep down...I want my loneliness to be no more. I want a partner again. I want a wife. I want a family. I can't have anymore kids (vasectomy), but I want to make the best of what I have.

I have a lot of work to do. A LOT of work...and I'm making small steps and it's showing...but as I've been whining and complaining (no shame, sorry) since I joined...it hurts. So. Much. Seven months and counting. And it just feels like it's getting worse.


1/6/18-BD OM1
2/18-W meets OM2
4/18-W intros D4 to OM2
5/18-“Romance ends"
7/18-DB start
7/18-IHS Ends
4/19-WW moves out
3/21-D filed

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Also, for elaboration, what do you mean by putting my big boy pants on? Not being defensive...asking an honest question. I am not here for warm fuzzies. I am here to face reality and hear what I need to hear to fix myself.

Should I discuss my sexual urges to my therapist and work with them on healthy ways to deal with this?


1/6/18-BD OM1
2/18-W meets OM2
4/18-W intros D4 to OM2
5/18-“Romance ends"
7/18-DB start
7/18-IHS Ends
4/19-WW moves out
3/21-D filed

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8/3/18

Had a pleasant interaction with W. Thanked her for the room revamp. Discussed further house plans. Went to doctor and got tested.

Not sure if W is noticing the pull-back, but something is turning in her head.

Still would like a response on previous entries and some guidance...please.

Thank you all for guidance in this journey. This has been a necessary and painful process.


1/6/18-BD OM1
2/18-W meets OM2
4/18-W intros D4 to OM2
5/18-“Romance ends"
7/18-DB start
7/18-IHS Ends
4/19-WW moves out
3/21-D filed

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Pain

I haven't been able to post as I am dealing with a very serious issue in real life which is occupying a lot of time and energy.

But I haven't forgotten you.

FOO is often resolvable because the childhood issues that seem so insurmountable as a child can be addressed by the adult. Of course sexual abuse tends to be quite resistant to treatment sometimes.

A great deal of sexual confusion in teenagers is normal as is exploration and discussion. Let me reassure you that it is so. Boys and young men with high drive have outlets that are sometimes excessive and that can be completely ok too.

By getting your big boy pants on I mean deciding for yourself as an adult what is acceptable as your boundary. And learning the skills you need to create connection, proper connection of which sex is just one means of communicating.

Moving your sexuality to it's proper place in your life and whilst important not your core identity. So that you have management of you including your sex drive.

You are S so what you do is your concern only, there can be no moral judgements about it's expression. The difficulty is lack of your control over you and using a behaviour to suppress your own feelings and distract you. It has its place in life but not that of dominance.

You are having IC and are self aware. Being self aware is one part of it, and whilst our childhoods create issues we reach a point where we parent ourselves. We become more our own creation that that of our FOO. All parents are flawed, they must be good enough, but it is time for you to hold the reigns of your own life in your hand.

So what are your goals for you?

What changes in your life do you want for you?

What steps do you need to take?

I do think you will have more options when you decide for you what is acceptable and the steps you can take to put yourself as a man only a fool would leave. Part of that will include dealing with the shame of your FOO, accepting yourself flaws too and deciding to shift.

I do think that your M has a chance of new M and you have hard work ahead of you learning the soft skills needed to build connection on an emotional level with W.

As you can tell, I am not afraid to address the hard issues with you. Thank you for your honesty it's a great help.

V

Last edited by Vanilla; 08/04/18 12:34 AM.

Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


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When a walk away gets a boyfriend after S then it is normally a transitional R. It isn't an A.

Cheating in R is out and out wayward behaviour that is an OM.

It's often covert.

I want to help you get your act together as quickly as possible as time is moving on.

Tell us about the IC you are having and are you getting treatment for the depression?

V


Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


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I’m on my phone, so reply will be brief.

Yes. I’m seeking IC for my depression/NGS.


1/6/18-BD OM1
2/18-W meets OM2
4/18-W intros D4 to OM2
5/18-“Romance ends"
7/18-DB start
7/18-IHS Ends
4/19-WW moves out
3/21-D filed

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Gah. To further elaborate, I’m currently seeing a MC but also working with my depression. I start a second IC this sunday to address NGS/FOO.

Results are being seen by quite a few, but there is still work to be done. GAL is picking up steam, and I’m taking more pride in my work and activities. Confidence is also improving. The weight loss helps.


1/6/18-BD OM1
2/18-W meets OM2
4/18-W intros D4 to OM2
5/18-“Romance ends"
7/18-DB start
7/18-IHS Ends
4/19-WW moves out
3/21-D filed

Formerly pain18

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Originally Posted by Vanilla
Pain

I haven't been able to post as I am dealing with a very serious issue in real life which is occupying a lot of time and energy.

But I haven't forgotten you.

FOO is often resolvable because the childhood issues that seem so insurmountable as a child can be addressed by the adult. Of course sexual abuse tends to be quite resistant to treatment sometimes.

A great deal of sexual confusion in teenagers is normal as is exploration and discussion. Let me reassure you that it is so. Boys and young men with high drive have outlets that are sometimes excessive and that can be completely ok too.

By getting your big boy pants on I mean deciding for yourself as an adult what is acceptable as your boundary. And learning the skills you need to create connection, proper connection of which sex is just one means of communicating.

Moving your sexuality to it's proper place in your life and whilst important not your core identity. So that you have management of you including your sex drive.

You are S so what you do is your concern only, there can be no moral judgements about it's expression. The difficulty is lack of your control over you and using a behaviour to suppress your own feelings and distract you. It has its place in life but not that of dominance.

You are having IC and are self aware. Being self aware is one part of it, and whilst our childhoods create issues we reach a point where we parent ourselves. We become more our own creation that that of our FOO. All parents are flawed, they must be good enough, but it is time for you to hold the reigns of your own life in your hand.

So what are your goals for you?

What changes in your life do you want for you?

What steps do you need to take?

I do think you will have more options when you decide for you what is acceptable and the steps you can take to put yourself as a man only a fool would leave. Part of that will include dealing with the shame of your FOO, accepting yourself flaws too and deciding to shift.

I do think that your M has a chance of new M and you have hard work ahead of you learning the soft skills needed to build connection on an emotional level with W.

As you can tell, I am not afraid to address the hard issues with you. Thank you for your honesty it's a great help.

V


Sorry for the delay in a proper response. And thank you for taking on the task to assist me in my journey in getting myself better. And I'm not sure if it's proper to talk about fixing my M when it should be me that I need to work on, though I understand that the majority of folks here are here to fix their M and get to the magical R. That's my hope, and I surrendered that hope to a higher power. I don't know what is going to happen these next few weeks, months, etc. but I do know that I want to grow into someone stronger. Someone who loves and respects myself. Someone my D4 can look up to as a strong figure. I'd be lying to you though when deep down, deep deep down, I really want R. Is that a bad thing to hope for? Should I not even hope since that part's not in my control?

Here are my goals:
1. Become a stronger, more confident man. A man who has broken free of the FOO issues and put them to rest. I have made tremendous progress to standing up to the folks responsible for my FOO issues (my parents). There are lingering traces, but I'm attacking them head on and express my boundaries to them without being overly aggressive. The boundaries are also something I'm working on establishing and enforcing to my extended family and friends. I'm working on looking out for ME first. My D4 second.

2. Become in better physical shape. I hit a peak of 253 pounds six weeks ago due to the side effects of my anti-depressant medication. After having my doctor deny the weight gain for the better part of 2 years, she finally gave in to my suggestion to a change in medication (that I suggested I take). So far, I have lost 12 pounds. My clothes are already fitting looser and I'm starting to have some of my confidence trickle back. I'm working on exercising four to five times per week and plan on ramping up the intensity (weight training). When I feel sexy on the outside, I feel sexier on the inside.

3. Live up to my high expectations of my new job. I got an amazing job in April and the team has been very supportive. However my deficiencies were exposed on my 90 day review and they were worse than I expected. That being said, I am working on getting the technical knowledge, skill of producing results, and increase my revenue generation so that at my 180 day review I meet and exceed their expectations. I have not heard received any feedback yet, but I will not ask. I will let my actions dictate whether or not I'm making improvements (I'm not going to constantly seek approval. Another Nice-Guy symptom.)

4. Become the man only a fool would leave. I care a lot for those I love, including my W. That being said, I have expressed that I will not stay in a M in which I do not feel loved. I know I messed up and I'm working on rectifying those issues that will hopefully end up with a second (and hopefully final chance) at my HEA. (I'm serious...my second chance will be the chance that I will make sure I meet and exceed the relationship expectations for the rest of my life.)

My changes in my life for ME:

- To become healthier and stronger. Physical, Emotional, Mental. Right now, I consider myself "good enough". I want to be "great". The name given to me means "Destined for greatness". I want to be that definition.

- To emanate genuine care for those who are involved on one form or another in my life. Many people love me, from my past to my present and to give them that warmth and comfort is something gives me happiness. Best example, my previous (toxic) job has gifted me numerous deep friendships. I still carry those to this day. It's because I cared genuinely about them and give it to them without any expectation of anything back.

-To experience life more. I've been more involved with my photography. To the point where I have a small Instagram and Facebook page. It's a start, but it's my love. And I should be so lucky. My W has and continues to encourage me to seek my own happiness, whether it's through music, art, or other activity. She even sent out suggestions for activities that I may enjoy. I have taken that ball and I'm starting to run with it. I am going rafting for the first time next Saturday with a campout with my D4 the weekend after (first time camping just the two of us).

What steps do I need to take?

I feel like I'm already taking them. I just need to make sure that I continue to do so and if I falter, have someone/give me a sign that I'm going astray. Again, even though we're S, the W still nudges me back on the path. While it does feel weird, I'm starting to understand better why she has been trying to get me to do the things above. The hardest part is making sure that I'm not doing this as a facade of winning my W back. And that part is getting easier everyday. I genuinely want to feel better and meet the goals outlined above. What that means for my relationships are up in the air.

I still am in pain, but I feel like this week has been a watershed moment for me. When I finally uttered the words "It's over and I'm finally admitting to it now.", I felt like letting something special free. I don't have it gripped tightly in the hopes that I can force it to stay. Even though there are times in I want to grab it back (talking about R to her, trying to convince her that OM isn't who she wants, etc.), I know that it's not going to work. I know that trying to control her (digging through her phone records) is a terrible betrayal of trust. It happened once and she rightfully called me out for it. And I admitted my shame and told her that it won't happen again. She may have been testing me by leaving her phone out in the open or putting it next to mine. Not once was I tempted to sneak a peek at her phone. Any mail she gets addressed to her stays sealed and I put them in her bedroom. No questions asked. No temptation to open them up. She is expected to get the privacy she deserve. I do not own her. I do not control her. Not then, not now, not ever.

The pain is still there, but I felt for the first time in a long time...things are looking...dare I say...up?

Last edited by pain18; 08/04/18 06:14 AM.

1/6/18-BD OM1
2/18-W meets OM2
4/18-W intros D4 to OM2
5/18-“Romance ends"
7/18-DB start
7/18-IHS Ends
4/19-WW moves out
3/21-D filed

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Edit to above post...Final Sentence:

"I'm feeling that things are starting to look...dare I say...up?"


1/6/18-BD OM1
2/18-W meets OM2
4/18-W intros D4 to OM2
5/18-“Romance ends"
7/18-DB start
7/18-IHS Ends
4/19-WW moves out
3/21-D filed

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Pain,

I hate to come off as judging, but just what in the heck are you doing with a hooker? You justify it by saying you've only had 1 sexual partner and now you have to have sex. Man, I've had plenty of partners, and plenty of times I went months and months, including recently, without sex. Sex is nice, but you can live without it. Looking back on it all, I wish I would have saved sex until marriage and only had that one person with nothing else to compare it to.

I hope you didn't pick up anything.

By being sexual with someone other than your W, I imagine you are violating your vows. I don't know why most people don't list their exceptions to their vows when they say them. To me, it's a freakin joke how everyone in society is like "well, you're separated so dating is fine." Just go ahead and get a divorce if you want to date someone else. And if you aren't sure, just sit tight. Do you like that your W is seeing someone else? What's the golden rule again?

I feel like you are blaming you upbringing and conservative family for not educating or exposing you to sex enough, but you made your choice, not them.

Maybe this is too much and people will get mad at me, but this is just what it looks like for me and everyone has a different perspective.

I hope you continue to get yourself to a better spot. There's a podcast on spotify called "The Science of Happiness". It's pretty cool and it's free.

Also, can someone please explain what FOO stands for?


H 34
W 29
BD 3/12/18
Divorce Busted Spring 19

It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
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