Can I really do this #5

[Dtrmned]

No worries Steve.

I am patient. Just curious as to how this is all going to play out.

W is still very cold and distant. She still has great difficulty sleeping. This is a new thing for her, but if has been going on for a few months now. She used to be able to sleep until 7 or 8am, sometimes 9, lately it is up somewhere between 3-5am. Don't know if it is emotions, pain, or a combination. We have not had any significant conversation since Sunday. She did email yesterday and commented that it was easier to communicate that way since our conversations don't go well. I didn't take any bait, answered her question, and moved on.

Still greatly confused as to her timeline and if she even has one. What is her plan and does she even have one of those? She isn't working, won't look for a job, doesn't go anywhere, takes 2-3 hour naps a day, doesn't spend any money (there isn't very much in our joint account for things other than groceries).

Truly just very confused. Is she just shutting herself off or just shutting me out? I am not pursuing, I am in fact fairly detached. Over the last few weeks, I have made a concious effort to not even look in her direction as much as in the past. I am not ignoring her, just not giving her the attention I once was. This is doing wonders for me as it keeps my mind from wandering back to her. MUCH NEEDED!

With the kids going back to school in a few weeks, things are going to ramp back up again with schedules, etc. making things just a little more chaotic for her, but will also give her back her 5-6 hours of space each day while they are gone.

I don't know how that will change anything as she is so exhausted and shuttling the kids will only compound that issue.

But, who am I to say and who am I to know.

Just curious on feedback on this. AS had stated that he didn't like limbo as it made things mostly just "status quo" with no look towards any solutions, hence the reason for the ask.

[sandi2]

I think your W has some type of game plan, and is keeping it well hid from you, or she believes you'll have to provide for her. Does that woman she was texting so much, live near? I'm wondering if she has promised to let your W live with her, or made her think she'd take care of her some way. IDK, but it's unusual for a WW not to have some type of plan. I mean, she will believe lies told by the OP, and take chances, but not to have something, is unusual from what I have seen.

If she believes you are going to financially support her, then she's just blowing smoke. She starts the b.s. about getting a job, etc., to make you get up and take care of things. She has no intentions of getting a job. That's why I thought it would wake her up if she was left to manage on her own. As long as you are there to care for her, and support her...….then she can dream of another life all day long.

You never said why you thought your W rejected the idea of moving to a new location. I didn't understand why that was completely tossed away? Have you rejected the offers by the other employers?

[Dtrmned]

Sandi,
The new job offer just wasn't enough for me to accept knowing that I was going to have to pay child support and the increase in the cost of living, etc. Very brief discussion with W that talked about the only way it could happen is if we did it together, she was not interested in opening that discussion at all. I passed on the offer and let it go.
The woman she is texting with does live in a neighboring city. But, if she were to go and live there, it is not a favorable school district for our children and it would be about a 45 minute commute each way for her to get the kids back and forth in their current schools.

She is an intelligent woman. Although sheltered by myself, admittedly, from the real world for quite some time, she is not stupid. This is what is so confusing to me!

I do believe that she is just stuck in the fantasy world presently. If she has a plan, she is very devious about her intentions and very good about keeping it hidden. This would have been way outside of her character before, but totally possible now. Unless her intention is to have a very expensive, long legal battle, there just isn't enough money there for her to support herself and there will be much less after as well. I may be very naive in looking at it that way, but it does come down to just math. With her not doing anything at all, our lease coming to term mid 2019, there is a timeline on most of this.

As I said, she is becoming more and more distant over the last couple of weeks, but still surprises me sometimes as well with a reach out here and there. I don't jump at these, but I do recognize them.

I truly don't know what else to say other than if she does have a plan, it must be a good one. If she doesn't, then she is going to be in for a huge shock.

I am very tempted to just draw up the paperwork and get it to her. I don't want this to happen. I still love my W and want to keep our family together, but this almost seems like the last chance I have of getting her to realize the ramifications of her decision. I truly don't want her back just for her own financial security, but I don't know any other way to give her the reality shock needed for her to see how her future will really be. Again, Sandi I may not know of her true intentions and plan and I may be the one totally in the dark.

[Dtrmned]

bump

[SteveLW]

JS, nothing you typed tells me you should stop DBing. My W was much like yours. "I want out. I want to make that happen." But then no action towards.

My suggestion is, no matter how tough, just ride it out. If you ask me, and I believe I stated this before, you explored the new job for the wrong reasons. You used it as leverage to try to get her to commit to the marriage. That is pursuit. And that is pressure. Her distance is probably in response to that. We talk a lot on this board about the pursuit and distance dynamic. Look it up. It is a REAL thing.

So she is distant. So? She is still there! This is why limbo is called the gift of time. I am sorry but filing would simply give her what she wants. Again, just like the job, you'd be doing it for the wrong reasons!! Filing to try to get her to realize the ramifications of her decision is the wrong reason to file! It will end up with you getting what you don't want, an actual D.

IF you really want to get a D, that is the reason for filing. And trust me, WASs have a sixth sense about all of this. They know when you file for D if it is to pursue and pressure....or if it is really because you are done. Why? Because in the first you have been terrible at detachment and GAL. In the 2nd case you will have GAL like a madman...and have fully detached. She will feel that and know that you aren't just bluffing with the D!

So JS, how is GAL going? What are your plans for tonight? You have no excuses for not being busy. Either you are busy with D14 and/or S11, or you are busy without them! You are in a great position because even if you W is away you have an in house babysitter in D14! So what are your plans for tonight after work?

How is your detachment going? Are you still emotionally attached to every things she says and does? It sure feels like it after reading your last update! Go reread the detachment thread. You will never be successful without detachment. Even if she came to you today and sincerely wanted to R, you'd be doomed to fail if you are overly attached. So work on that.

Your kids first, GAL and detachment should be your focus!

[Dtrmned]

Steve,
Thanks.
I am struggling just in the knowledge that this is going to be a very long drawn out process. Not the "I don't know if it is worth it" issue, it is more that I don't know if I have the energy to do this. Even with my GAL parts of my life, the enormity of everything just bears down on me almost every moment of each day. Other than that nugget of knowledge, I am doing good. My weight is down 20 lbs. I'm averaging about 10 miles per day walking and a little running. Lifting a few weights as well. Playing with my S and have had a few instances where my D and I have actually connected a bit. I am confident that if need be, I will be ok after D.
I am also confident that I still love my W and don't want to D
I can't mind read, and I truly don't know how long she can stay in her current state, but I just don't know again, if I have the energy.
My other GAL's have mostly been out of the home a few more hours a week. Reading a little more (this is generally on the weekends and I would be in a separate room. Outside of that, on the weekends I try to get the kids out, if not we play some board or video games, listen to music or just hang out. D is out with a friend for a couple of days. Taking my S to dinner tonight. W is invited, but not pressured. Don't know if she will come yet, but we are going regardless.
Tomorrow just doing some house cleaning and yard work. I usually take a longer walk/run on the weekends as well. Do some reading and then either hang out with my S or if he is with his friends just watch some tv.
The detachment part I am still working on that. I feel stronger with it every day.

[Dtrmned]

A really good weekend on on my children's notes.

S and I went to dinner Friday. Good time. W did not come and it did not interrupt our fun.

Saturday was more of chore/housework day.

Sunday was a great day with my S. We hung out, played some games, ran some errands and even did some chores together around the house. It was relaxing and fun. W had a rough time healthwise, but did take the day and stayed mostly to herself. I let her have her space and went on and enjoyed my S. Overall a good day.

I made dinner and my D got home from her trip mid afternoon of which when she came in I hugged her and she hugged me back (big for her as she is not that physical anyway and us working on our relationship so YEA!). She rested awhile, then ALL of us sat down and had a family dinner. It was relaxed, enjoyable and if I humbly may say so, pretty good! Went in and said goodnight to my D we chatted about her trip and said that her and I need to do something this week. She said great. Very happy Daddy at the moment on this. Baby steps and establishing good communication and hoping she will allow me to become a bigger part in her life again.

W even had seconds and thats good since she hasn't been eating well at all due to her intestinal issues.

Here is where I am struggling. W and I can "fake" it fairly well. What that means to me is that we can make nice, make plans, take care of the kids, and do everything parents, and almost "partners" do. We are even cordial to one another and laugh together if we are watching a show or something. You know the rest, we sleep in the same bed, etc.

Our problems erupt when we start to discuss pretty much anything important (sometimes even the kids if it involves money). Mostly these are financial related. Health bills, shopping, not enough money in the joint account, kids are going to need back to school stuff, Kid activities that require money, and then I get hit yesterday. My S is turning that age where he wants a phone. His sister got hers on the same birthday as well. He deserves it, but I am uncomfortable for "us" to commit to another monthly bill together. I don't even want to have that conversation (S talked to me about it yesterday when we were hanging out). Also, now he has an event to go to that requires some $$$ and a sport that he wants to do that requires a bunch of $$$. Just me bringing up that subject to her or her to me will put her both very aggressive and defensive and would end up on her just blaming me on the financial side for everything. I am not holding any money back except for bills.

Again, here is where I am struggling. We are in a stalemate. We do not discuss anything. DR rules prohibit me initiating ANY R talks and W hasn't discussed it or wanted to discuss it for weeks. Again, she is doing absolutely nothing that I can see (referencing Sandi's comment that her plan may be very well hidden) to move this forward. She has so far not made any effort to get a job (outside of her "friend's" offer and dream of someday getting a part time job that will allow her and I quote "when and if she is able to", so really, not going to happen IMHO). She doesn't go out, doesn't leave the house, can't drive at night, isn't on her phone incessantly. In fact, if she is having an EA, she is rather respectful of me and not texting or whatever when I am next to her or late night in bed or anything like that.

I don't want to get blindsided by anything. My W is very stubborn, so when she finally did make up her mind to end our MR, I believe that it will be very difficult for her to go back on her decision. I still feel that our family can be saved, but I also feel like this stalemate is not doing anything positive at this moment. I am just looking for feedback on what I should be doing. Kids start back to school in a couple of weeks. This will give her more time during the day to get things done if need be, but it also puts a time burden on her for the carpool duties when she is generally used to doing her errands when her body allows her to. Funny how the rest of us make it to where we need to be on schedule, and someone who never has one, complains about the smallest things sometimes.

I looked at her very different this weekend as well. She was not my W. She was feeling fairly bad, and I noticed her skin was very pale and a little clammy. She did her hair and I did let her know she did a good job (I would have told anybody that I know that got their hair done how it looked.) She did complain about having to do it herself (she has for years, so not a new thing) I didn't say anything on that. I didn't over compliment or fawn all over her. Just "hair looks good".

I read the situations where the LBS gets to the end of their rope, drops it, and moves on. I am contemplating this as I said last week. I know this is a decision that I have to make. Do I just have a L draw up the papers, give it to her, and either start the war with another L or she just signs and we just wait the waiting period? Would this even give her pause (I know, VERY small chance of this happening).

BUT, I am just feeling very taken advantage of. I work hard, pay all of the bills. There isn't much left, but there is a nice roof over her head, a nice vehicle in the garage, food in the fridge, cell phone, cable, pretty much all of the necessities and a few of the luxuries in life. She gets to sit on her a$$ everyday, enjoy and spend time with our children, watch tv,. Here is an example of Saturday since I was there most of the day. W got up around 6ish. got her coffee and watched tv for about 4 hours. I made my S breakfast and I did make my W breakfast since I was cooking anyway, so she got breakfast made for her. She got up off the couch at 10, changed into her workout clothes and went and was on the treadmill for 2 hours. Afterwards, she took a nap for 3 hours, then took a shower, read her book. I grilled out and she helped out and we made dinner together. We ate, then we watched a movie. All in all must have been a very exhausting day. My day, of which Saturday has always been my cleaning day, I got up at 5, worked out until 7. Cleaned up the downstairs bathroom. Made breakfast, cleaned the kitchen, dusted the downstairs, made the bed and then worked on my business for 2 hours. Did a late morning run, then ran a couple of errands and by mid afternoon, was ready to relax from a long week.

I received NMMNG and have read about a third of it. Really relating to it and analyzing it and myself as I go along. I believe they have nailed me to a T. I have a lot of recovery to do, but I am happy that the book is about self-help and job just being a jerk. Changing the "flawed" view that one may have of the world that you thought was right is mind blowing.

So PLEASE. Any help and input on this is appreciated. I am not putting a time limit on my MR. Unfortunately, there are a few already built in. Our current lease is up early 2019, so if we moved ahead towards a D now, there would be ample opportunity to get it finalized so we could all have the "fresh" start my W wants when it is over. If not, it just gets dragged out longer and then what do we do then? Sign another lease? Buy a house? At this point, I don't think so.

As I said from day 1 on this board. I love my W very much. I love my family very much. I would love to keep our family and our MR together, R, and work towards a newer and better MR. I am only one person in this MR. I am not mad, bitter, or even sad at the moment (should think about changing my screenname). I am just at a point where something needs to move so my and my kid's lives can move forward. My W is so selfish and unless she is as devious as Sandi thinks she may be, she has no clue. I am also a little tired of the cake eating. Get out there, get a job and contribute to the household.

Thoughts, suggestions, support and 2x4's are always appreciated and encouraged.

I will end with how I usually end my Friday posts, but I forgot it last week. I was very fortunate to have another week with my family in the same home. So thank you God for that!

[SteveLW]

Anniversary of BD is next month. I usually advise LBSs to give their WAS at least a year. If you give it another month or two, I don't think anyone would blame you. You gave it more than the old college try. Just be honest with yourself. Are you filing to get movement? Or are you filing because you are done? Don't do it for the former, only do it for the latter.

[Dtrmned]

Steve,
So here is my struggle. With the financial collapse, losing our home, and everything else, this issue and problems have been going on for I'd say at least 2 years, maybe even up to 3 years. There was some talks and threats of D on both sides prior to her final one when she filed in February. Her big BD was probably Sept of last year. It was a few days before our S's bday as I remember at least thinking "at least she didn't do it on his bday". We did the counselors, books, workbooks, etc. Some worked for awhile, some didn't work at all. Although looking back NEITHER of us were in a place where we were individually in the right frame of mind and still reeling from our issues to even remotely focus on someone else. Not the best way to be, but that was the way it was non the less. I was too focused and reeling from losing everything, trying to hold my family together and knowing I had to get out there, swallow my pride, and get to work. She was curled up in a corner and closed off from everything. I think both of us still being together through that says a ton but again I am only one person. So to say I have given it a year would be arguable. Unfortunately our MR issues were very much compounded by having to put them off through the financial issues. I am not justifying at all. Just looking back and trying to see it for what it is. We didn't blame each other, but since there was no one to blame, did end up taking our frustrations out on each other instead of supporting one another.
I am not trying to be a martyr nor is my argument there just to be "right" in the end. My fight is for my family, for our MR. There can be a bunch of winners, but if it ends in D, everyone loses. We will all end up "ok" some happier than others and no one knows how long or who that will be.
I know I have done more than most. I have been told by the few people that know that I should just move on and let her go. That there are more women out there that would love to be treated half as well as my W has been treated. Well, I truly am not interested in doing that yet. If we D, I'm sure I could find someone. I'm attractive, successful, responsible, fun and an overall decent person. I take my MR vows very seriously. When I said those words, I meant them.
In answer to your comment. Am I doing it just to move something forward or because I am done, I see it as a timeline that had "because I'm done" starting at the very far end of the timeline, but the dot is moving closer and closer each day. I have my notes together, my ideas on what I would/would not agree to. I have my L picked out, but not retained as of this moment. I feel guilty at times for hanging on. Is it just me that sees we are better together than apart? Why should I put my kids through the pain they are seeing? How will all of this affect their future relationships? My D and I had a brief conversation and she mentioned that she didn't think she was ever going to get married. I didn't push, but who would blame her with what she has seen for the last couple of years!
So, I just don't know which one it is. I think one day, and it gets closer each day, I will call it and move it forward. So if I know it is going to get there soon, why not do it now and just get it started. My W obviously isn't going to move it forward. Her plan may be there, but it hasn't surfaced, and when/if it does, who knows how that will work. Is it better to position now for my and my kids future? or is it better to just wait it out? The million dollar question I guess...

[Dtrmned]

Decent day yesterday.
Work was productive, but the best happened when I got home. My D and I are now communicating regularly. She is even jovial and approaching me. I am taking it slowly, but she got her school schedule, ran it down for me class by class and even added "I am really gonna need your help with this class dad" on one of them. A VERY happy daddy for that. I know she is a teenager and emotions run all around, but if she truly "hated" me and had no interest in a relationship, I would be shut out. I am looking forward to re-establishing a deeper relationship with both of my children.

W was weird. Feels too comfortable and usually when it gets this way is when she does something interesting. With the kids starting school in a few weeks, I am unsure as to her plans. Maybe this is why I am struggling. It may be that I am just tired of living on the edge of the unknown for so long and being in "fear" of what may be. Early on in this process I focused WAY too much on my W. I now know that she will do what she will do and I cannot mind read or guess. I can only control my actions and my focus needs to be first on my children and then myself. I will not ignore my W nor will I cater to her.

I am still unsure if I should push things forward or not. Is this me just having to do something or am I done. I am taking a couple of days to examine this fully and come to a decision. Most days I feel helpless in the situation. Does my need to move on trump trying to do anything and everything I can to keep my MR together and my family together? Is that too selfish? Or is it selfish to hang on so long? Arguments on both sides come out when I think about it and I can see the good and bad in both. If I could only see the end result. But, I can't and I don't know if anyone knows what the end result will be.

W is still struggling with health issues. Not sleeping, not eating enough (or binging when she can eat on bad stuff). Her weight is seriously down. She now weighs less than she did 20 years ago. I am a little concerned on this, but I do now dwell or mention it as she has requested me not "pry" into her health issues.

We don't talk any longer. Short, brief sentence or questions. No conversations. The mood is not happy nor sad nor angry, just there. The money issue will rear its head in the next couple of days and those are never good. I will handle it as best I can, but if she isn't willing to contribute and get a job, does she really have any leg to stand on? I am tired, lonely, confused, weary but at the same time I am putting myself together again and concentrating on my children. My W hasn't had to worry about anything financial for over 20 years. Not an entire reason to stay in a MR, but I know that I have some serous faults, but I am a spouse only a fool would leave. Only question left is:

Will she be so foolish?

Worked out a little harder this morning. Felt good.