ambivalent WW - detach?

[MoveFrwd]

Thanks Joe. I'll just keep trying. I have two problems, though. First, S. She sees me once a week for about an hour and a half. Hard to show her much.

My favorite analogy Ive seen on this is about watching grass grow. Imagine sitting on your front porch and staring at your lawn constantly for weeks. You cant really detect any growth during the process. What if you go on vacation for three weeks? My point is that sometimes it's better to be patient and not 'force' your changes on to her. Remeber that this could take YEARS....Youve been married for a decade - why would you imagine that you will undo years of issues in a few weeks.

Second, I kind of like who I am already. Not sure why she doesn't. There's room for improvement, sure, but I'm a decent guy. She even admits that. Just for some reason she doesn't want to be with me. Doesn't feel "safe."

I mean....she wound up in the arms and bed of another person....so your marriage couldnt have been perfect. Take stock of what your issues are and were. Really spend that time in your mirror understanding what your side of the street really entailed. As I said before, she isnt going to come back to the same burned.

Saw W last night for dinner and it went well until the very end. She said "This was a win, take it!" I got sad because seeing her for an hour to talk about BS over dinner just doesn't cut it for me. She saw me being sad and went straight to the "pressure" garbage. Sheesh, I can't be a robot, I'm human, I can't exactly hide how I feel.

So maybe it's time to start distancing yourself a little bit so that you can be more prepared. Your wife is sleeping with another man (or at least was at some point). Does she have ANY fear of losing YOU? Why does she get your carte blanche to do as she pleases? People want what they cant have - do you ever turn down invitations to get together with her? To me, every time you see her right now, you are setting yourself back.

Then she asked me about my IC earlier that day, she is always curious about what I talk about in IC, and I took the bait. Next thing you know she's angry at me for being honest. Says I can't force her to feel safe around me.

This "safety" thing. Is it complete guano? Sounds to me like the perfect way to just kick the can down the road. "I don't feel safe with you." I'm sitting here smiling, telling you I'm here for you, offering to look after the dog for the weekend. But you don't feel safe?

I dont really understand what it means, but youve spent hours listening to her. So there has got to be something to this. What does she mean when she says 'she doesnt feel safe'? Is she worried about your temper? You said before you destroyed something things in 'a rage'. You also tracked her down and took photos of her car without her knowing. Plus many dates ended poorly because you couldnt control your emotions. How does that give her a sense of calmness, security, etc? What are you DOING to work on those things? Are you in some type of anger management? Have you found other ways of relief?

Your post reads like you are defending yourself vs. understanding her feelings. Heres an important mantra for you. "Her perception is her reality". You dont have to agree with her feelings. But her feelings are real and they drive her words, thoughts, and actions. So maybe youve created a more safe environment (though from your recounts, it doesnt really sound like it)...she still feels this lack of safety. So what are you doing to contribute to that environment?

Pretty close to giving up.

What does 'giving up' look like to you? What would be different?

Sadly, there isnt really a 'quit' button.

I mean I seriously don't know what to change about myself except to just vanish.

Maybe that isnt such a bad thing for a while...

[SteveLW]

I mean I seriously don't know what to change about myself except to just vanish.

Maybe that isnt such a bad thing for a while...

I too meant to address this. As Amoafwl eludes to, maybe you should go dark on her. No contact (look that up because again it doesn't mean ignoring her) may be what she and you need.

As always, Amoafwl is spot on and eloquent! Please pay heed to what Amoafwl says and asks.

[burned]

I mean I seriously don't know what to change about myself except to just vanish.

Maybe that isnt such a bad thing for a while...

I too meant to address this. As Amoafwl eludes to, maybe you should go dark on her. No contact (look that up because again it doesn't mean ignoring her) may be what she and you need.

As always, Amoafwl is spot on and eloquent! Please pay heed to what Amoafwl says and asks.

Lots of good advice this morning, thanks guys. Just fuming with frustration, at myself and at her.

I am going dark. I am trying, at least. It's the hardest thing I've ever done. She said last night she feels GREAT not talking to me because she can focus on herself. I know this is supposed to feel counterintuitive but when she tells me that, I can't help feeling like I'm just making it easier for her to leave.

I can't concentrate at work so I'm getting shat on there. I'm not a social person so the idea of going out to clubs or whatnot just does not appeal to me (I suppose there's something I could 180 right there). The only thing I've done for myself is I'm trying to get back into my hobbies. There are a lot of hours in a weekend, especially when you can't sleep.

Steve, I agree with you that it's easier to be S because then she really does wonder how I'm doing. I know she still does care. What is difficult for me is that I get a maximum of about 3 hours per week to show her anything at all. So on the one chance I get to see her, when I desperately want more from her (which is something she has specifically told me is a problem for her, that she never feels like she's giving me enough and she "can't give me much right now"), I blow it because I legitimately can't NOT feel sad, and she can read my face like a book. She says "OK, well, see you when I see you," and I'm instantly hurting.

What can I do? Take a bathroom break? She'd still know that something was bugging me, and she'd probably guess what it was.

And then how do I know if anything is working, if I don't see her for another week? She kind of went dark on me. Like she wants me to pursue her? But she doesn't! It just doesn't make any sense.

[SteveLW]

First, as I said in my last response: WAY TOO MUCH FOCUS ON HER. Way too much burned.

Believe NOTHING she says, and only half of what she does. Remember, the WAS RARELY says the truth. They say what is expedient at the time. They say whatever they feel will net them the best chance of what they are striving for at the moment. Even their actions are suspect.

After BD in Dec, for the next 2 days my W was extremely affectionate. Holding my hand, patting my shoulder, putting her arm around me, hugging me, sitting very close to me. I asked her near the end of the second day if she had changed her mind. "No, not at all!" Then why are you so affectionate with me "Because I know you are hurting." See that. Even her actions were not the truth! Please remember this. As the words are coming out of her mouth understand that she is saying what she needs to at that moment. Don't believe it. "I do great when I don't hear from you!" Yeah, don't believe that. You can bet she is wondering why you aren't contacting her.

And even "can't give me much right now" probably means "I am not willing to give more now." Yep, she will lie to protect your feelings too! Maybe that doesn't make you feel any better, but the point is this is why you must control your show of emotions around her. A lot of what she says and does is to manipulate you. Or temp check you. Or to see if she can get the usual response out of you. 180 here! Hard. Lovingly detached means that those kinds of words (that likely aren't even true) roll off your back like water off of a duck.

[MoveFrwd]

I am going dark. I am trying, at least. It's the hardest thing I've ever done. She said last night she feels GREAT not talking to me because she can focus on herself. I know this is supposed to feel counterintuitive but when she tells me that, I can't help feeling like I'm just making it easier for her to leave.

Every time you talk or see her, it ends with pressure and pursuit on you part. Imagine that the two of you are standing and pressing a box together with your bodies. Right now, that box is your relationship. She is not interested in holding that right now, so she takes a step backwards. Every time she is doing that, you take a step forward to keep that pressure on the box. When she doesnt see if, it's like that box just falls away. So, of COURSE it feels good when she has some separation. So why would you continue to apply that pressure knowing that it's only making her more upset?

Remember....shes already gone. You say it's easier for her to leave...but what relationship do you actually have right now? It isnt like she is going to forget you overnight after being married for many years. Give her the space she is asking for. And in the meantime, USE this space to get yourself right. How can you learn to better control your emotions?

I can't concentrate at work so I'm getting shat on there. I'm not a social person so the idea of going out to clubs or whatnot just does not appeal to me (I suppose there's something I could 180 right there). The only thing I've done for myself is I'm trying to get back into my hobbies. There are a lot of hours in a weekend, especially when you can't sleep.

1) Maybe the space will give you a better ability to work...?

2) Nobody said anything about going to 'a club'. For me, GAL was going to a board game night once a week. It was joining a pathfinder group twice a month. It was joining a fantasy football league through one of those activities. It was finding new and cool places to take my kids. Its about ENRICHING your life...not about finding some random girl to hook up with. How can you prove to yourself that you are valuable, that you are worthy of happiness, and that your wife and your marriage dont define you?

Steve, I agree with you that it's easier to be S because then she really does wonder how I'm doing. I know she still does care. What is difficult for me is that I get a maximum of about 3 hours per week to show her anything at all. So on the one chance I get to see her, when I desperately want more from her (which is something she has specifically told me is a problem for her, that she never feels like she's giving me enough and she "can't give me much right now"), I blow it because I legitimately can't NOT feel sad, and she can read my face like a book. She says "OK, well, see you when I see you," and I'm instantly hurting.

Then you seriously have to stop seeing her. Like for real. If you cant not be a puddle of goo, then you are HURTING YOUR CHANCES for R.

I mean, seriously. If you were her, would you find you and your behavior attractive??

What can I do? Take a bathroom break? She'd still know that something was bugging me, and she'd probably guess what it was.

Huh? YES you need a break from her because every time you see her, you are making your relationship worse. You are applying pressure. Even if you dont mean to, just the act of being there is pressure right now.

And then how do I know if anything is working, if I don't see her for another week? She kind of went dark on me. Like she wants me to pursue her? But she doesn't! It just doesn't make any sense.

How about this analogy...imagine the two of you are taking a walk, but you are two steps behind her. Every time you speed up, she is going to speed up the same. So you will always be two steps behind her. You can start running, but its only going to wear you and her out. And it will only make her angry and resentful that you are doing that to her. But what if you just stop. Sure, for a while, she wont notice and just keep on walking. But what if she turns around and you arent there? THATS when you can see her starting to come back to you. She might not. Theres no guarantee that she ever turns around. My ex wife didnt. But all I can guarantee you is that chasing her wont work. No matter how hard you work or how fast you run - it doesnt work.

[burned]

Thanks. Lots of much-needed 2x4s in there.

To clarify, by clubs I meant things like "model airplane club" or whatnot. Pottery classes, etc. Not my thing, meaning I should do a 180 and try. As for club clubs, with music? Definitely not my thing. I have no desire to interact with anyone in a romantic way. And that would backfire like crazy. Or would it? Hmm... But no.

I'm hearing you, believe me. Whatever we had is over. She is essentially a single woman. I am not attractive to her. Used to be, but not currently. Maybe never again.

I'm just terrified of letting go. I know I need to, but I can't. I know it makes things worse, but it's hard. And then when I hear people say "It might not work" I completely lose it. The term "ex-wife" makes me cower. Maybe that's my problem.

Also trying to wrap my head around the "she says whatever is expedient" thing. It makes sense and it doesn't. I mean, why not just be blunt? But then again, she is being blunt. She's saying what she feels in the moment. I'm just very, very skeptical that she ever sits around at home thinking about me. Last night: "I miss you." "I know." WTF. How do you NOT miss someone who was by your side for a decade? And then she says, "I'm bored all day because I have no one to talk to." And I'm like, "Um, here I am, why not talk to me?" Her: "Well I want to text you randomly during the day but then you turn it into a thing."

OK, I know, I need to not "turn it into a thing." But as of today I am not getting those texts, therefore, no opportunity not to turn it into a thing.

I'm sorry guys, I'm dense. And super anxious. This is the worst.

[SteveLW]

This is the hardest thing you will likely ever go through. No question about it. The problem is that you shouldn't look back with regrets. When I was in the thick of my sitch I often said I didn't want to look back and think there were things I could have done that I didn't do. That is why I try to encourage new posters to avoid words like "I can't" or "I wont't". We have a couple of posters like that, and I don't think it is a coincidence that their sitches are some of the hardest to deal with. Lots of times those folks have insisted on doing things their way, before they find their way here, and continue to do that even after coming here. I don't say that to bash anyone, but I say that to suggest to you that you need to be willing to try things outside of your comfort zone in order to be successful.

And remember success isn't necessarily getting to R. Success is also being able to move on as a new person ready for a new MR with someone else. Otherwise you'll still end up D'd and then end up in a similar situation with a new person in a few years.

[MoveFrwd]

To clarify, by clubs I meant things like "model airplane club" or whatnot. Pottery classes, etc. Not my thing, meaning I should do a 180 and try.

The point isnt really WHAT youre doing. It's more THAT youre doing. Theres so much value in getting out and meeting new people and making new friends. I always met people and my identity was as my ex-wife's husband. I needed to make that effort to regain my own identity as ME.

I'm just terrified of letting go. I know I need to, but I can't. I know it makes things worse, but it's hard. And then when I hear people say "It might not work" I completely lose it. The term "ex-wife" makes me cower. Maybe that's my problem.

Nobody said this was going to be easy. But you can do it. You dont really have another choice.

Last night: "I miss you." "I know." WTF. How do you NOT miss someone who was by your side for a decade? And then she says, "I'm bored all day because I have no one to talk to." And I'm like, "Um, here I am, why not talk to me?" Her: "Well I want to text you randomly during the day but then you turn it into a thing."

So what was your GOAL in sending a text that says "I miss you"? Especially after a dinner when she said she didnt want as much contact...

[burned]

It wasn't by text, it was when she was there. Haven't texted hr since because I told her I wouldn't. And one of the things she needs to see is that I follow through with what I said I'd do. This was a HUGE issue for her, now that I'm recalling it. Insight!

I guess my goal was just to be honest. Backfired. I only read DR after I got back from dinner.

I'm. Still. Not. Getting. It. She told me she's done, or at least not sure if she is or isn't. Her actions suggest she is done. Amoafwl says, "Does she have ANY fear of losing YOU?" I doubt it, if that's her goal. Why would she fear losing someone she already kicked out?

While I'm babbling, I should note that having trouble at work is quite possibly the worst thing, since my career is such an important aspect of my identity. It's so important, in fact, that every time we talk in person it's the first thing she asks about, I suppose because she knows that her actions almost cost my my job, and she feels some guilt about that. Just an assumption.

[SteveLW]

Not just assumption but mind reading...which will get you no where.