Just checking in on you ballast, you seem to be at a low, very sorry to see that.
Originally Posted by ballast
"Most wives DO express their feelings...but often their complaints -- especially for emotional intimacy, conversation, recreational closeness, more sex -- are ignored, pretended away, I suspect because the husband does not really know how to "fix" those types of things.
For others, it is that their presence in the marriage is more-or-less taken for granted. Men seem to feel that they've "done all the work needed" during dating, courtship...and they stop being the man and doing the things and treating her the way that helped the woman fell in love with them in the first place. The woman just ends up being sick of feeling, being treated like part of the household furniture. It accumulates over time when her trying to talk about it is ignored and "her" problem(s) pretended away. Then, when she's done, she is done. It takes a LONG and lonely, painful time to fall out of love and want to leave one's marriage. There is nothing "walk-away" about the process of falling out of love with one's husband or the difficult, painful decision to end one's marriage.
This is a one-sided description of the dynamic that's going on. The presumption is that the husband is happy and having his needs met while this is going on, but that's rarely the case. Both happiness and misery are contagious.
Relationships generally fall apart for one of three reasons: (1) One partner becomes emotionally unstable for a variety of reasons, which may include mental illness, addiction, issues related to a bad childhood, etc. (2) One partner has a momentary lapse of judgement and cheats and the other partner can't forgive them, or (3) the relationship slowly degrades over time for both people.
In the first case, sometimes people have latent issues and they either temporarily get better (an addict stops using for a while, a person with a mood disorder pursues treatment, etc), *or* the partner knows the issues are there and chooses to ignore them initially, fooling themselves or falsely believing that things will magically get better in the future.
This "fooling yourself" phenomenon is a lot of what goes on -- you fall in love with who you want the person to be versus who they really are. Over time, your veneer gets stripped away, you see them for who they really are and its no longer acceptable.
The tragic situation is when someone who was emotionally healthy when you met and dated them has a breakdown after you're married and just becomes unlivable due to their issues. That's rare but it certainly does happen, people just "go crazy" sometimes.
The third scenario is really what the quote above is about. Chances are if the husband is ignoring the wife's complaints, its because he's not very motivated to respond to them. The reason is generally that he's not having his needs met either, and his complaints are likely also being ignored.
That's the vicious cycle that tends to land people here -- your needs aren't being met, so you're less motivated to provide your wife with what she needs. Her needs aren't being met, so she's not motivated to give you what you need, and that spinning wheel eventually drives you apart until one person (or both people) decides they want out.
Sometimes the scenarios are combined, you could have all three things going on.
My point is, unless you "went crazy" after you married W, this is in *no way* your fault for not responding to her complaints. She is equally if not more culpable than you are in that regard. Don't let her off the hook for that, and don't shoulder the blame.
It's good to be aware of these dynamics so that you can identify and avoid them in the future, but you're not guilty.
Acc
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
Acc...appreciate you checking in on me! am I low? I am for sure frustrated about my sitch, but my day to day outside of my sitch really isn't that bad. to have gone 6 months or so and regressed from BD as time has gone by. it's not like I didn't know this was a marathon, but to have gone only further downhill over time. as I say the realization that W may really just D without trying anything to avert, complete lack of communication even on D, acceptance of how bad my sitch seems is an ongoing process.
From your reasons provided (1) seems to have happened with W. IC has told me I had no way to predict how having a child would effect her, there is possibly an addiction, anxiety and some MLC type stuff related to aging. for me, I have zero experience with any of those issues and so I'm very hesistant to accept them as possible while also somehow accepting those as justification for how the MR got to where it is. it seems a cop out to me to say "oh W was just mental", BUT many folks have told me there are clear markers in her actions to support that belief. did W breakdown? again I fight against that as I don't want to use that as a crutch for my failings in the MR, but again others believe it happened once D arrived. crazy? no, just changed/regressed/rejected the new life presented to us.
(2) my gut says a third party came into the MR in some capacity on W's side. absent factual knowledge, no idea whether I could forgive or not and I compartment away that issue as I don't think W will ever want to R such that I'd need to answer it. (3) could be very much dependent on (1) and would be definitely impacted if (2) was confirmed. the MR did degrade after having D as our focus went to the day to day responsibilities associated with raising a young child. it curtailed our freedom to do whatever, whenever we wanted. I imagine that it was a greater impact on W's sense of losing her old life, personally D coming into our life only made me happier even with the loss of some single/no kids freedom.
what I can say for sure is that I did not willing ignore anything. either there was "code" that I wasn't picking up on or when 100 things are said with equal importance, I was unable to decipher which were the show stoppers and which were the mundane. I don't think either of us put in the effort to push through those drops in communication and if we could not get through them ourselves then we could/should have gone to talk with someone to get us on the same wavelength. best as I can tell though W would not be open to any 3rd party assistance and so that was that. I know I could not mind read, perhaps she saw that lack in me as incompatability.
I know that I did not go crazy, as best I can tell nor did she. the total silence/lack of responsibility from W's side...into that complete void when an LBS is desperately looking for answers to why, the easy source of explanations comes from within and as the time goes and the desperation increases, the LBS willingly/unwillingly takes on more and more blame because that's all they have. I know what you say in the last paragraph is true fact, it's just a huge fight within me to not allow her silence to change my mind.
thanks as always Acc! You've stuck with me through my sitch and I sincerely appreciate your support and concern!
My pleasure, from what I've read of your sitch it sounds like W reacted very poorly to motherhood. The view on her you've presented us here is that the experience, to her, made her feel trapped. She didn't like the weight gain, the responsibility, and perhaps most importantly the lack of freedom.
It would seem that once she started to feel increasingly trapped by that scenario, she equated it with "you trapping her" so she conflated her desire to get out of the situation with a desire to get away from you, because to her they became one and the same.
Obviously a better model would have been to have her share her feelings with you and to view you as an ally in helping her navigate things, but she didn't do that, and that's on her.
The fact that you've additionally shared that she keeps traveling and going away for fun weekends would further reinforce that she really is not enjoying being responsible for a baby and feels she has more adventuring to do.
In this context, if another man came along and enabled her feelings of escape, that might be understandable, but it would totally be a symptom rather than a cause. It would seem she was going to feel all of these things with or without OM.
In many if not most of the OM scenarios here, W is entertaining thoughts of leaving the marriage for a long time but is largely held back by fear and uncertainty. The stability that comes along with having a relationship partner often serves as the springboard for their ability to finally throw in the towel.
In your W's case, it doesn't sound like this is how things unfolded, instead it seems to have been everything that comes along with being a parent that set her off, so presence of an OM would be more or less coincidental than causal if that makes sense.
Bottom line is that I agree with you, I think W became unglued due to becoming a parent, and you couldn't have predicted that because you didn't have the opportunity to see her reacting to parenthood before you married her.
I'm very sorry things unfolded this way, but please resist the urge to take on too much guilt for what are really her decisions.
Acc
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
It is hard not to think that to gain our D, I had to lose my W. W used the word hate in place of "very poorly". it was very hard for me to understand her feeling like that, but I never discredited them and always encouraged her to go speak with someone about them, but that didn't happen best I know. I know that's a very difficult thing for a woman to admit/accept, but there are people who could have helped her process them. I would have done whatever she asked of me. I just tried to be supportive as best I knew.
Yes, I think once she felt trapped, her focus was to rewind as much as she could and that was getting rid of me. Her family will tell me "you are not the source of her unhappiness" and then they will point at our D. And yes each month a trip of a week to get away...from our sitch, D, family, job, basically any responsibility. My IC says it is her anxiety and she can only take so much real life before she needs to escape. You read about MLC over empty nests but with W it seems it's very MLC like but for new mom reasons.
I agree on the OM being a coincidental and less a primary reason for W leaving. There may/may not be a OM aspect to this. IC thinks another R is the last thing W would want right now, but who knows.
IC says there's no way I could have foreseen the change parenthood would bring on my W. It's just very hard to come to terms with when for seemingly everyone else it's a happy new chapter in your life together. W loves D very much, there's no question of that, but all of the other parts that go into that new identity, well W just rejects them and is now trying to roll back her life to before D, me and back to her single life. No reason to doubt W will divorce me, her family thinks she will regret it. I don't care really if she regrets it or not, I'm far from a vindictive person. I just feel that with some IC/MC we could resolve/improve and be happy. Sadly I don't think she is going to give us that chance.
met with IC last week. W continues near complete avoidance of me to include co-parent of D. IC advised that W is at the extreme of anxiety avoidance. so hard to understand how other sitches here with EA/PAs there are still communications between W/H yet in mine complete avoidance. i ask at night why had God forsaken me, what did I do to cause such dysfunction. all I have is to keep going forward. IC asked if I was open to dating, told her I felt it would be some very long time before I'll even consider that. she said it's clear i'm dealing with a W who has mental illness. hate hearing that as I feel it's a cop out, for sure brings me no comfort. IC said the long W avoids the more dysfunctional her behavior is likely to become. i just don't get it.
why had God forsaken me, what did I do to cause such dysfunction
He hasn't. And nothing.
This is called life. We all deal with issues in life. Some of the issues are bigger than others, but we all have issues. And remember, it can always get worse. I know when we have our heads down in our sitches we can't imagine anything worse, but it can always get worse.
Not that I am saying be thankful for your sitch, but take it and roll with it, and deal with it. and b I think you are doing that. You can't control her, and I think at the base of most our struggles as LBSs is that fact we struggle with not being able to control the WAS.
I'll keep you in my prayers.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
B- God will never forsake you or any one else. Know that these trials and tribulations are in preparation for the many blessings you will be showered with in your afterlife. Be a messenger of God - live obediently and accordingly and know beautiful heaven awaits you! Blessings!
M51 w50 T-20Yrs M-16Yrs S15- mad at W for not trying and giving up 1 Awesum dog BD 10/31/17 separate rooms 02/08/18 wife moved out 05/17/18
Ballast, I can relate. There was a period of 5 weeks where the WW and I were intimate and working on things and I thought I could pull her away from the OM. When I saw her increasing communication with him, I fully detached 3 weeks ago and now I am in a similar situation to you. Typically complete avoidance before and after the weekends that she spends away every night. Two kids here that I care for and little regard for them or me. I am moving on so it doesnt bother me but my youngest is tired of her pestering him about where I am when she is away. The days in between she usually is struggling with her emotions and I can see she is hurting and suffering some sort of mental anguish.
She was scheduled this week to speak with a therapist but after a one sided text argument this morning, canceled the appointment. At this point she will either get help or will have a full mental breakdown and end up in jail or committed.
It is very hard to deal with but like I said I can relate. This person changed on me overnight and I do not recognize her. Prayers to both of us that this works out the best it can.
H-50 W-48 T-19 M -18 S23, S14 BD - 5/9/2018 OM discovered 5/10/2018
In house sep - 8/18/2018 Rope drop 2/15/2019 R'ing since 3/15/2019
best thing would be to just fast forward life, set W free and just live. funny how those songs that say "i breathe in, i breathe out" I used to pay them no extra mind, but now many days inhale, exhale is sometimes the best I got. it's never been about control over the WAS. way more just HOW/WHY, walk the walk you want to take as it's your life, but for those of us who's life is destroyed in your wake, a bit of what happened sure would be nice.
lost, as for all of us on here I'm very sorry to hear of your sitch. as hope, you seem to still have some comms with your wife recently and that she was to speak with a therapist...i pray for you that you have more communication with her and that your W may yet go speak to someone. in my sitch it's been pretty much full on ghost mode from her for months now. at least for me it's like my W has died away, there is some solace in the absence if that makes any sense.
wlf, I marvel at your faith buddy. for sure I'm in a deep challenge to my faith, perhaps that's the whole point of this. for sure it's the worst trial of my life and sadly I feel like I'm losing the battle. i just want to cut free of W and stay far away from the idea of love and marriage for the rest of my life.
all three of you, thank you so much for your prayers! my prayers to each one of you in your sitches.
met with IC last week. W continues near complete avoidance of me to include co-parent of D. IC advised that W is at the extreme of anxiety avoidance. so hard to understand how other sitches here with EA/PAs there are still communications between W/H yet in mine complete avoidance. i ask at night why had God forsaken me, what did I do to cause such dysfunction. all I have is to keep going forward. IC asked if I was open to dating, told her I felt it would be some very long time before I'll even consider that. she said it's clear i'm dealing with a W who has mental illness. hate hearing that as I feel it's a cop out, for sure brings me no comfort. IC said the long W avoids the more dysfunctional her behavior is likely to become. i just don't get it.
Ballast, very sorry you're going through this, sometimes people get over these situations quickly and other times the pain just seems to never end. I've seen situations where the WAS didn't just abandon the LBS but abandoned the entire family. I mean who would even do that to a dog, much less their own children? It's unbelievable how utterly cold and cruel WAS's can be. And then others are basically very kind and polite and accommodating, they just don't want to be married anymore. Most are somewhere in between.
Regarding your beliefs, I can relate, I went through the exact same struggles. Wondering what I did wrong and why God abandoned me when I needed him more than ever. I was very deep in the Christian faith before BD. I moderated a Christian forum, had read the Bible front to back (and most of it many times), read interpretations, listened to all the scholarly pastors, etc. etc. After BD I prayed like no one has prayed before. I fully believed God would answer those prayers and restore my marriage. When he didn't, it caused me to revisit everything I thought I knew. My religious views have changed drastically since then.
I'm not here to try to convince you there is or isn't a God, but this isn't about you not being good enough for a higher power and him punishing you. This is just a very unfortunate situation you have ended up in through random chance. It happens to good people every day- they lose a child to an accident or illness, or find out they've got months to live, or lose their job and can't find another, or have a loved one that develops dementia and forget who they are and everyone around them, or any number of crap things. These are the things that shape who we are. In some cases people become bitter and angry, in others sad and despondent. Some people move on and others never do. I eventually got over the idea I was being punished and just accepted that it was happening, that it was out of my control, and I chose to learn from it and move on as best I could.
Like I've said many times in these forums, this may look like the end of your story to you but it really isn't. It's the end of a chapter in your story. Turn the page and another chapter will begin.
