She knows...Pt. 4

[LoneWlf]

bm, I commend your for your stance in protecting S. S is still unable to fend for himself so you as his dad need to to step up- and did. When a childs well being is at stake there is only ONE answer- Save the child. Although it may not be textbook DB -it least the priority was taken care of. Keep strong!

[SteveLW]

bm,

I am with LW, I applaud anyone that is protecting their child. So that aspect is commendable IF your actions were pure.

However, (here comes the 2x4s), I question that last if. Were your intentions pure?

First, why the forum you chose? Why FB? And if you don't feel bad about it (you repeated that many times in your post almost as if you were trying to convince yourself as much as us) then why did you take it down?

Were your intentions all about protecting son? Or was it more about getting at her? Breaking them up? Etc?

If it were all about protecting son, why not call the police anonymously to report the illegal cobra keeping? Why make a big public splash? What were your true motivations for taking the steps that you took.

bm, you would not be the first LBS that used the well-being of their child as an excuse to throw shade at their WAS and their AP. It is a common tactic. All I am asking you to do is to be honest with yourself about all of this.

For me the telling things are that
a) you took the post down. Sorry, but if I am not sorry about something I don't reverse course on it.
b) you don't believe that it is really over, but you sent S off, potentially to be around this excon and his illegal snakes, with your STBXW. I am sorry to be blunt bm, but is that really putting your S's well-being first?
c) Interesting timing. You've known who this guy was for a while now. But it isn't until she gets a date for the D hearing (before the deadline that you were counting down daily) and then you have your "chance" meeting with OM. Then just a few days later you run background checks (again after all this time) and decide to blow the whole thing up on fb.

It sounds to me that your upset about her acting on the D before the deadline and running into OM (again, I am not sure if you are being honest with yourself about the chance nature of that) caused you to take action. We talk a lot on this board about the illusion of action. LBSs often think they have to DO something, and that's usually when they do something to sabotage themselves.

So following your sitch recently, if put 2 and 2 together, you gave up on DBing because for a few weeks she showed some positive actions, you got sucked in, you put too much weight on the D filing expiring, and then you spiraled from there.

Just one question.....what happened to running things by this forum before acting? Why be so impulsive? You realize that after D, short of your XW dating a convicted child molester, there is going to be NOTHING you can do about who she takes your S around, right? Heck, you know this guy is an excon with illegal snakes and there is nothing you can do about it, short of reporting his illegal snakes to the authorities, which you seem unwilling to do!

Okay, said my peace. Good luck bm. We often tell posters here to be careful of the actions they take because the actions often lead them to what they fear most (getting D'd) and I fear that this flurry of activity has indeed sent you down that path.

I will keep you and your sitch in my prayers.

[SteveLW]

P.S. On the FB issue....you knew you had a mole. You knew she'd hear about it. Be honest, it was lie saying you "thought she wouldn't see it".

[blakmac]

However, (here comes the 2x4s)

You know...I knew they were coming. Heh.

First, why the forum you chose? Why FB? And if you don't feel bad about it (you repeated that many times in your post almost as if you were trying to convince yourself as much as us) then why did you take it down?

Good question. The reason FB was where I chose to vent about it was because that's just about the only contact I have with my friends and family. Friends are usually too busy (I should probably make more friends, honestly). My family all lives out of state, plus talking to them about this usually makes things harder for me because of THEIR emotional response, verbal overreaction, etc. I love my family, but they aren't exactly helpful in situations like this, so I just don't go to them for advice.

I took the post down because W basically begged me to. I debated not taking it down. I could tell when she called that she was seriously hurt by it. I didn't feel bad about making the post. I didn't feel bad at all about the effect. But I did feel bad about upsetting W. And I know that's kind of weak, in a way. Does she deserve it? Absolutely. Did I think she would get angry? Didn't care. Did I expect her to be actually sad about it? No. I may be a lot of things, but I'm not someone who wants to see her sad because of an action that I made...regardless of why I took my actions, all she's going to see is the things I did...not the things that she did to get to that point. Although I hope she considers that. But I took it down because it hurt me to know that I hurt her, and I respected her request.

Were your intentions all about protecting son? Or was it more about getting at her? Breaking them up? Etc?

My intentions did evolve a bit. At first, I just wanted to know who this dude was that was spending time with S and sleeping with W. The more I found out, the more I knew that I had to get S out of the situation. It was never about getting back at her or breaking them up. Did it cross my mind? Not particularly. By the time I decided I needed to do something, I was beyond the point of caring about anything other than ensuring S's safety.

If it were all about protecting son, why not call the police anonymously to report the illegal cobra keeping? Why make a big public splash? What were your true motivations for taking the steps that you took.

That was my first thought, actually. There are a few factors that went into that decision.

1) To file a report, they would need more than just "this dude posts pics of his snakes on social media". Since I had not been in his house personally, they would essentially have only social media posts and the second-hand information from a 4 year old source who thinks the guy has two different names. Not exactly a solid foundation for probable cause, but a solid foundation for thinking I'm crazy.

2) The stuff I found out had to be addressed. I knew that had I just taken it directly to W, she would have given me the "he's a nice guy, he made some mistakes, he's a good person, you're just jealous, quit being creepy, it's over" talk. She wouldn't consider WHAT the information was, only where it came from. And while the OM probably does take safety precautions with his snakes, accidents happen, and I would rather her hate me forever than lose S because she put him in a dangerous situation.

3) I knew that no matter what action I took, W would be upset. Even an anonymous police report would have made her blame me for making the call. Even had it not been me, in her mind, it would have been because of me. So there wasn't any point to take an action with the intent of upsetting her, because she was going to be upset either way. She's not finished with being angry at me over the entire marriage. Adding more fuel to the fire seemed like a bad idea.

4) The "big public splash" wasn't that big or even that public. My FB privacy settings are pretty tight, and I don't publicly share my posts. That being said...my FB is restricted to people I've met in person and family. Yes, I knew that someone had sent her my posts before. Yes, I knew that (despite removing about 300 friends since this all started) they were probably still on the list, and likely family. After this post, one of her family members finally told me which person was sharing. My response was "I figured it was them. They are bad at being sneaky, lol." And yes, that person is still on my friends list.

5) The decision to make the post came at the end of the "how should I handle this" process, simply because I was frustrated. I knew that I needed to do something. Taking the info to W would have escalated the situation. Going to the police, even anonymously, would have escalated the situation. Showing up and handling it in person would have definitely escalated the situation. So, out of frustration...I gave up. I basically told myself "you need to get this off your chest, and there's no way this is going to go well, but you have to do SOMETHING."

So I made the post.

I posted to vent my frustrations, and I knew that it was likely to get back to her, but I didn't really care if she found out second hand or not. In a nutshell: "I've got this thing that's bothering me, and I'm going to talk about it, and if you happen to find out what I said, fine."

you would not be the first LBS that used the well-being of their child as an excuse to throw shade at their WAS and their AP[\quote]

That's fair. Although this was more about getting angry about a problem, needing to fix it, and not really caring whether or not she gets dirty in the process. I didn't choose for W and OM to be together, and I didn't choose to separate them, either. That's beyond my control, and I don't want to be that guy. But if neither of them are willing to think about their actions and how that could affect S, eff 'em.

[quote]you took the post down. Sorry, but if I am not sorry about something I don't reverse course on it.

Normally I wouldn't, but I'm a sucker. She got hurt, I felt bad when I saw how sad she was. I shouldn't have felt bad.

you don't believe that it is really over, but you sent S off, potentially to be around this excon and his illegal snakes, with your STBXW. I am sorry to be blunt bm, but is that really putting your S's well-being first?

I didn't "send him off". She came to pick him up after she got off work. It was bedtime for him. He takes meds that make him sleepy, and I had already given him that. But either way, all I know is that both W and OM told me they were done. Am I skeptical? Yes. Does that matter? Not really, because there's literally no way for me to control who she has him around other than keep him myself, which I would love to do, but I couldn't do it without help because of his school schedule and my work schedule (he starts just before noon, I have to be at work at 8, and I have no family/friends to rely on to help me with that, and we've checked into before-school care programs, but there aren't any for his age group at his school). I'm absolutely going to keep my eye on things though, now that I know. I don't think that just letting it go is a good idea, and I do intend to bring it up in court when the time comes.

Interesting timing. You've known who this guy was for a while now. But it isn't until she gets a date for the D hearing (before the deadline that you were counting down daily) and then you have your "chance" meeting with OM. Then just a few days later you run background checks (again after all this time) and decide to blow the whole thing up on fb.

I get that. I've known his first name for a couple of weeks because S talked about him. I didn't bother to pursue information. In hindsight, I remember a month or so ago S talking about W not letting him go in his friends house because of snakes". I thought it was weird, so I had asked W what that was about. She said "(fake name) has pet snakes, I just went in to say bye while S was in the car, I wouldn't let him around them, that's dangerous." FFWD to later when S spends the night there. FFWD to S telling me about riding in the guys car. I thought it was weird that S called this guy two different names. W said it was two different people. S said it was the same dude. But I still figured that it was just S being confused about new people and names. Then the more I thought about it, the weirder it seemed. So I started looking to figure out what was up with the guy. FB search found him. Matched other social media accounts, found pics of the snakes. Thought back to a couple months ago where police found a loose cobra in town and had been looking for the owner. I figured I'd see if it could have been him, so I did some public records searches and couldn't find a permit, but I did find arrest/jail records. DWI and drug possession. At that point, I knew that W was going to just be dumb about it just so she could justify seeing him to herself.

Did the deadline have any bearing on it? Not particularly, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't bitter. I'm bitter, absolutely, but not malicious.

Running into OM at the gas station was accidental. I was in the store parking lot probably 30 minutes before he was.

Just one question.....what happened to running things by this forum before acting? Why be so impulsive? You realize that after D, short of your XW dating a convicted child molester, there is going to be NOTHING you can do about who she takes your S around, right? Heck, you know this guy is an excon with illegal snakes and there is nothing you can do about it, short of reporting his illegal snakes to the authorities, which you seem unwilling to do!

ADHD. When I actually do focus on something, it's not always the thing I want to focus on, and it becomes very difficult to focus on something else. Focus for me is often involuntary. As is the impulsive overly emotional reactions. I do realize that there's nothing I can do after D, and I also try to realize that right now there's little I can do about it. I've already stated why I didn't make the phone call. If it persists, then I can always pick up the phone.

Morally, I have no problem with him having the snakes. I don't see it as anyone's business but his own. However, my S safety matters to me more than how I feel about W or OM, or how they feel about me.

That being said, I really hope this didn't wipe everything out. I understand it may have. But for S, that's a risk I was willing to take.

[SteveLW]

bm, please go back and read your response. There are a lot of contradictions. "I didn't want to upset her." Then "I knew posting it on fb would get back to her and upset her/" Huh?

I think the whole problem stemmed from this:

I basically told myself "you need to get this off your chest, and there's no way this is going to go well, but you have to do SOMETHING."

Note what I said in my first response about the illusion of action?? In DBing often the best action is NO ACTION AT ALL.

I am not going to lie, this is a huge setback. It also makes me question if you were really DBing as well as I thought you were all this time. I am guessing that the DBing you were doing wasn't for yourself, and was to try to manipulate her. I think you even recently said, after she didn't let the D expire, that DBing was having the opposite of the desired effect.

As I read your update, sandi's rule #37 was screaming from memory.......you worked hard all these last few months. I am afraid you backslid and undid all of that.

bm I will keep you in my prayers. I think what I am saddest for you is this:

Does that matter? Not really, because there's literally no way for me to control who she has him around

So you blew it all up. Potentially ruined any chance of avoiding D. And still did nothing to ensure your S won't continue to be exposed to OM and his snakes. (Because I agree 100% with you that there is no way she is done with him over this. She will do what all WAWs/WWs do when the LBH snoops and confronts them about things......go deeper undercover.)

I am not seeing any upside here.

One final 2x4. This is all because you went back on your desire to stay off of FB. Look at your paragraph about OM:

FB search found him. Matched other social media accounts, found pics of the snakes.

FB. FB. FB.

FB is all over this.

[SteveLW]

Oh and go back up and read sandi's post right before your huge update.

Sadly, I don't think you heeded her advice. And sadly I think you are doomed to now suffer the consequences similar to the sitch she linked to you.

[blakmac]

bm, please go back and read your response. There are a lot of contradictions. "I didn't want to upset her." Then "I knew posting it on fb would get back to her and upset her/" Huh?

I didn't want to upset her. - True.

I knew that it would upset her. - Also true.

Posting would upset her. - True

If I post, the outcome (safety of S) will outweigh the cost (anger of W). - True


I get how those appear to contradict, but in my thought process, they didn't. Those aren't mutually exclusive things.

Oh and go back up and read sandi's post right before your huge update.

I read it yesterday, after everything had already happened.

I am not going to lie, this is a huge setback. It also makes me question if you were really DBing as well as I thought you were all this time. I am guessing that the DBing you were doing wasn't for yourself, and was to try to manipulate her. I think you even recently said, after she didn't let the D expire, that DBing was having the opposite of the desired effect.

I figured that it would be. But I also believed that some action, even if it wasn't the best one, was better than no action.

Realistically, would it stop them? Probably not.

Would it send a very clear message to W that she needs to THINK before she just randomly takes S around OM? Hopefully.

The DB was for myself. Of course, like some other posters I've read, I tended to fall into the "omg this isn't working halp" trap. It's hard to tell what will work and what won't, what IS working and what isn't, etc. when you're on the inside.

From the outside, it's often more clear. Inside...you've got a LOT of s#1t in your head clouding things up. Factor in something like ADHD and you've got a bomb.

Despite the nuke, I'm still going to DB. Probably harder than ever. I'm going to ride this out until the end, because I don't want to just give up and say "well, I effed up, guess I'm done."

I'm not quitting.

What I hope is (and believe me...I know just how unlikely/impossible this is) that W got the information, said in her mind "wow...what was I thinking?" and starts to make better choices. She gets mad and accuses me of trying to make her feel like a bad mom. She's not a bad mom, but she's a poor judge of character (including her own), and she is impulsive, and she is selfish. She loves S, but she doesn't think about these things before they happen.

I know that's unrealistic to believe. I don't believe that will happen. But I can hope for it all I want.

##########

On that note, W just texted me. She's wanting to bring S's bed, the kitchen table, and the couch to my place this weekend. The message: "I'd like to bring over some things this weekend to your house if that's ok and you want them. Let me know. S's bed, kitchen table, couch"


I have not responded yet. I have plans this weekend. Sunday afternoon, S will be coming over to my apartment. She is probably wanting to do that sooner than that time, but I will be in and out of the house GAL this weekend, and it's going to be very inconvenient to change my schedule around to make way for her.

In fact, I know I don't have to change any plans for her. She left.

Not only that, but I'm not sure who she's going to try to get help from moving that stuff upstairs. There are certain people that I wouldn't let into my apartment for any reason at all.

Anyway, going to try really hard to do better at this. It may not work, and I'd like some advice on proceeding and dealing with this furniture thing.

[SteveLW]

I like the attitude of getting over this and moving forward with the DBing! Very well done bm. I know I was hard on your actions in your update, but now all you can do is move forward.

I would wait a while, and then tell her "That cannot occur this weekend until Sunday afternoon at the earliest. I am busy most of the time until then."

More than likely she won't respond.

But yes keep GAL (like this weekend). Keep 180ing (like no more snooping, avoid OM at all costs, etc). And definitely keep trying to detach. This latest incident proves you haven't detached......so make that your focus moving forward.

ONWARD AND UPWARD!!

[blakmac]

Indeed.

She definitely got a bit colder, but it could be the shock of stupidity. Dunno. Can't count on anything other than myself here, and even that's sketchy at best. lol.

Thank you, Steve.

I need the 2x4 once in a while. And I always kinda know when I need them...heh. They suck of course, but without correction we'd never learn anything.

I make some strange decisions that to most people seem pretty stupid/reckless/insane, but I do try to make the best choices given the circumstances that I can in just about every situation. Explaining them can be tricky though. Heh.

Either way, onward and upward!

[blakmac]

Ugghhhhhh...here we go...that was quick. Updates coming soon.