If her not making physical contact bothers you, you need some GAL and detachment.
As for how to handle the MC, I don't know but someone else will comment I'm sure.
Thanks.
She asked about why I've been being a little more 'touchy-feely' lately. Basically she said that she hasn't reciprocated or initiated because she's convinced I would expect sex. And since she's not 'there' yet', that's why she hasn't made any physical contact yet.
Married: 15yrs Ages: Me 49, W 44 Kids: S12 BD: around 4/14
Hi all. It's been a few days. just wanted to journal a bit here.
Not much has really changed this week. W has called a MC a few times, but has been playing phone tag with her. So that's progressing, but hasn't happened yet.
No R talks at all this week, mostly just some light hearted conversations.
W still not sleeping in bed with me, nor have we had any physical contact. It's a little bothersome but I'm ok with it for now.
We have concert tickets for this weekend. It'll be the first time in a VERY long time that just her and I have went out and did something. I'm looking forward to it, but I know it'll be a little awkward. My goal is to avoid any deep talks, and just keep it light and fun.
W has made several comments about future-type of stuff together (holidays, upcoming weddings, etc).
I have good days and bad. Mostly good, but there are certainly times when my mind wanders, thinking about us, previous OM, etc. Hopefully if/when we get to MC, she'll help deal with these things.
Anyhow, I'll keep you all posted if/when anything happens or changes! Overall, from where I was a month or two ago, things are much better. Not great, but better
Married: 15yrs Ages: Me 49, W 44 Kids: S12 BD: around 4/14
On the inside I wanted to flip the F out, but instead I just said 'i'm going to bed'. W said somethign like 'you're like a little boy that doesn't want to hear what he did wrong so he runs from the conversation.' I say 'I'm more than happy to finish the convo tomorrow'.
That's awesome, you did great! Keep in mind she's a WAS and will poop on everything you say and do for a while, that's just part of the WAS handbook. Try not to let it ruffle you.
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So here's my big question/problem I have with this, and I need an expert to answer:
HOW FAR DO WE GO WITH VALIDATING???
If I/we never argue our point of view or the facts, then they are obvioulsy going to think they're always 100% right about everything, that we are to blame for everything, etc.
NO!!!! That is NOT what validation is! Validation is NOT agreeing/ disagreeing/ arguing/ negotiating/ reasoning/ etc. It is simply acknowledging how she feels. If you are agreeing with her arguments then you are not validating correctly. If you validate correctly, she will feel like you are listening and being empathetic. If you feel like arguing with her is going to gain you ANYTHING then boy oh boy do you need to step back and reevaluate!
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I said in my previous post that MC will be interesting. Is that the appropriate place to start to explain my side of things, to point out obvious falsehoods in our past that she seems to think are true, etc?
No. She's still a WAS. Honestly you shouldn't even be going to MC, at 8 weeks post-BD it's far too soon for that. If she sets it up then go, but don't do anything other than listen and validate. She's very likely doing this to check off her list of "things I tried to save the M but only proved it really was over".
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When our son was born, she claims I NEVER helped with anything, and was more focused on playing softball and baseball. Now, 'never' helping is a bit of an exaggeration. True, the first two months she was the one up at night with him, and caring for him all day. Why? Because I was working at a new job and she was on maternity leave! And as far as playing sports, I know for a fact I didn't start playing softball until over a year after son was born, cause I broke my wrist at the beginning of my first season playing (which was a year after he was born).
"I hear you saying you were frustrated because you felt I was not helping enough, I am sorry I made you feel that way." That is validation. Here's the thing, she may be rewriting history but she BELIEVES it's true. You cannot argue sense into her. But you can LISTEN and VALIDATE and make her feel like she's connecting with you.
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She asked about why I've been being a little more 'touchy-feely' lately. Basically she said that she hasn't reciprocated or initiated because she's convinced I would expect sex. And since she's not 'there' yet', that's why she hasn't made any physical contact yet.
Again, it's too soon for that. I realize you probably didn't do it in the M and now you are trying to do a 180 on it, but that is not an area to do a 180 on right now. Pull back and give her time and space. Read Sandi's rules, that is how you should be behaving right now. You've run about 100 feet in your marathon and are already looking around for the finish line to cross. It's not even in sight yet. Take a deep breath and settle in for the long haul.
On the inside I wanted to flip the F out, but instead I just said 'i'm going to bed'. W said somethign like 'you're like a little boy that doesn't want to hear what he did wrong so he runs from the conversation.' I say 'I'm more than happy to finish the convo tomorrow'.
That's awesome, you did great! Keep in mind she's a WAS and will poop on everything you say and do for a while, that's just part of the WAS handbook. Try not to let it ruffle you.
Quote
So here's my big question/problem I have with this, and I need an expert to answer:
HOW FAR DO WE GO WITH VALIDATING???
If I/we never argue our point of view or the facts, then they are obvioulsy going to think they're always 100% right about everything, that we are to blame for everything, etc.
NO!!!! That is NOT what validation is! Validation is NOT agreeing/ disagreeing/ arguing/ negotiating/ reasoning/ etc. It is simply acknowledging how she feels. If you are agreeing with her arguments then you are not validating correctly. If you validate correctly, she will feel like you are listening and being empathetic. If you feel like arguing with her is going to gain you ANYTHING then boy oh boy do you need to step back and reevaluate!
Quote
I said in my previous post that MC will be interesting. Is that the appropriate place to start to explain my side of things, to point out obvious falsehoods in our past that she seems to think are true, etc?
No. She's still a WAS. Honestly you shouldn't even be going to MC, at 8 weeks post-BD it's far too soon for that. If she sets it up then go, but don't do anything other than listen and validate. She's very likely doing this to check off her list of "things I tried to save the M but only proved it really was over".
Quote
When our son was born, she claims I NEVER helped with anything, and was more focused on playing softball and baseball. Now, 'never' helping is a bit of an exaggeration. True, the first two months she was the one up at night with him, and caring for him all day. Why? Because I was working at a new job and she was on maternity leave! And as far as playing sports, I know for a fact I didn't start playing softball until over a year after son was born, cause I broke my wrist at the beginning of my first season playing (which was a year after he was born).
"I hear you saying you were frustrated because you felt I was not helping enough, I am sorry I made you feel that way." That is validation. Here's the thing, she may be rewriting history but she BELIEVES it's true. You cannot argue sense into her. But you can LISTEN and VALIDATE and make her feel like she's connecting with you.
Quote
She asked about why I've been being a little more 'touchy-feely' lately. Basically she said that she hasn't reciprocated or initiated because she's convinced I would expect sex. And since she's not 'there' yet', that's why she hasn't made any physical contact yet.
Again, it's too soon for that. I realize you probably didn't do it in the M and now you are trying to do a 180 on it, but that is not an area to do a 180 on right now. Pull back and give her time and space. Read Sandi's rules, that is how you should be behaving right now. You've run about 100 feet in your marathon and are already looking around for the finish line to cross. It's not even in sight yet. Take a deep breath and settle in for the long haul.
Thanks AS. Good info here, especially on validation. I really don't 'agree' with her when she brings that stuff up, but I feel like my lack of arguing (which is a 180 for me) is causing her to think 'since he's not arguing, I must be right!'. Maybe not. Guess it doesn't matter
Still not much communication again tonight. Patience is the hardest thing. I need to get out of the mindset of 'if it isn't moving forward, it's moving backward'. I guess no movement is ok too.
Married: 15yrs Ages: Me 49, W 44 Kids: S12 BD: around 4/14
What are you doing for you tonight? To make your life better?
lol nothing. Watching football. W didn't get home till 8 so I was w/ son. Maybe should have went somewhere when she got home, but didn't feel like going to a bar. I've had to be out of town for work two nights this week (and last week, and next week)
Married: 15yrs Ages: Me 49, W 44 Kids: S12 BD: around 4/14
Here's something that I thought about recently that for some reason I'm really struggling with. Maybe someone can chime in.
W always said, and still does, that she rarely wanted sex or intimacy with me because there's no emotional connection. Physical attraction isn't an issue. Ok, that makes sense.
W also said that her 2 week texting EA with that dirtball was largely based on the 'attention' she was getting from him, not necessarily him himself. More of an emotional thing than a physical thing. Ok, makes sense.
If she felt she wasn't getting emotional attention from me, it's not out of the question that she seek it from someone else.
Here's the problem. W directly hit on this loser 4 days before BD at a concert. How much of an emotional connection could she have built w/ him in those few hours, where they were never even really alone together? Which leads me to believe it was a strong physical attraction she had for him. And obviously, she was/is more physically attracted to him than me, since she went out of her way to pursue him, even without an emotional connection she puts so much stock in.
Not sure I'm explaining it correctly, nor if it even matters. It just really pisses me off for some reason. Not like this dude is some stud heartthrob either.
Married: 15yrs Ages: Me 49, W 44 Kids: S12 BD: around 4/14
Just keep this in mind. It's a drug and she is hooked. Does it sound attractive to be hooked on heroin, meth, other devastating drugs? No, but people still do it anyway.
My wife's EA is not what you would call an attractive man, but just like your W she is hooked. Addicted to the fantasy of the OM and/or the exciting new problem free life without you. It's all hogwash, and you know it. Just keep reminding yourself that if your head starts racing.
H(37) W(35) D8, D5, S3 T20, M13 BD 8/31/18 EA Discovered 9/13/18 Mediation 10/3/18 W files for D 10/12/18 W moves out 11/10/18 EA confirmed 12/25/18 D Final 1/10/19
Just keep this in mind. It's a drug and she is hooked. Does it sound attractive to be hooked on heroin, meth, other devastating drugs? No, but people still do it anyway.
My wife's EA is not what you would call an attractive man, but just like your W she is hooked. Addicted to the fantasy of the OM and/or the exciting new problem free life without you. It's all hogwash, and you know it. Just keep reminding yourself that if your head starts racing.
lol. I never understood how people become addicted to certain things anyway. I've been around drugs and alcohol a lot before, and I was no angel in my younger days. But if someone were to say to me "hey Terrapin, want to shoot some heroin?!", I can't imagine answering "ya sure, I've heard good things!"
So when W was at the concert and told this hilljack that she's 'going to rape him', it's hard for me to grasp the mentality of it all. It's not like it snuck up on her, they worked together and were friends, etc. Going back to the addiction/heroin metaphor, that would be like me just grabbing a needle and shooting up, completely disregarding myself, my W, son, family, future, etc.
Maybe that's why it bothers me. The only explanation I can see is that her physical attraction to this POS was so strong, she couldn't help herself. Knowing how big of a loser he is, it's disturbing she would find him attractive in any way, shape, or form. But it's even more disturbing that she apparently found him more physically attractive than me (since neither him nor I had an 'emotional connection' to her).
Married: 15yrs Ages: Me 49, W 44 Kids: S12 BD: around 4/14
ter, i truly understand where you’re coming from. WW ‘s POS is everything that she hates on a man. Smokes, drinks, gambles. He also has a 13 year relationship with someone. Maybe that’s why they both ended up together, They’re both predators and just leeching off each other. But just because she heard things that she needed to hear from him, she felt things that she needed to feel. This POS can’t even speak a full meaningful sentence with two pencils on both hands and a flashlight.
Me on the other hand, and not trying to lift myself up but i always try to dress nicely, clean shaven,lost 60 lbs 10 years ago. Good interpersonal skills. Always gets compliments from her girlfriends. I do all the housework. No wonder my daughter loves me. But probably i have to much of that “good guy in me.
How do I 180 on these? Be an a-hole? No just be assertive, be more confident, and be a better listener.
Found this somewhere in one of the forums and i’ll share it:
Know Thy Enemy Scumbag Other Man Strategy Book
1. Befriend married woman 2. Allow her vent and discuss relationship issues 3. Exploit information gathered in #2 to manipulate her emotions ("Oh my I would never do that to you") 4. Make your move 5. Have the Husband come unraveled (justifiably) 6. Exploit the #5 to further your knight in shining armor image 7. Other man gets his act together, and inevitably the reality of what you are comes shining through to married woman 8. Tell her its not working out because you can't handle real relationships because you are not a real man 9. Leave the mess you made behind 10. Repeat Step 1 with new victim
