Navigating through and concentrating on myself #6

[Dtrmned]

Good Morning Forum!
Sandi, great to have you back.
As always you have this amazing ability to see into the WW's mind and also into mine and give very useful feedback. I truly am at a loss at what to do. And no, I do not know how an EA feels to the WW or anyone for that matter. I guess from the readings that it is almost harder than a PA since the fantasy is real and never damaged. I feel I am being forced into a decision to file for D just based on the fact that our lease is up soon and we either renew or move. Since she stated she is looking for places, my only conclusion is that we will physically separate in a few months. I do not want to be financially tied to her when this happens. I also know that a physical separation will increase her chances of actively pursuing a PA (or dating at that point if we are D'd), but I don't know what else to do.
Is this a good path? The feedback I have gotten is that this situation could go on indefinitely with her attitude so maybe it is a good thing there is a big deadline forcing something. If anyone has any suggestions how to get through this hurdle other than filing for D, please let me know.

W and I have had some decent interactions the past couple of weeks. Other than the one talk about the dating site, zero arguments and zero R talks. I feel her thinking and contemplating at times and know that she is still struggling with her decision but at the moment is steadfast in her decision that I am not the right person to spend the rest of her life with.

To answer your question on consequences, kind of a dead issue is the above comes to pass and then it truly doesn't matter too much anymore. I am committed to db'ing even through the D if I file. Protecting myself and my children as best I can. I will also have a small amount of hope that as she experiences life without me she will see that the grass is greener right over the septic tank and that life with me wasn't as horrible as she portrayed. All the time knowing that my life will go on and there will be no light left on for her but if the timing is right, who knows what might happen in the future.

It is unfortunately sad to me that it is at this point, and again, if ANYONE has an idea how to work through this without a full recon prior (I don't believe she is in that place yet) please let me know!!

Sia, thanks for weighing in and spending the time on my sitch. My attitude the past few days has been better. Detaching more. Not really worrying about W. I do my thing. I don't do anything to purposely antagonize her, nor do I go out of my way to make things better. I made a great dinner for myself and the kids last night. W did eat a little, but it was all for us and they loved it! I cooked things I haven't in years so it was fun being creative again in the kitchen with real food and not kale chips (the aren't that bad, but sometimes you need butter, oil, and the good stuff). I'm out of the house more. Still working out. In the best shape I have been in for probably 25 years. Sleeping better. More relaxed. I'm even getting a better handle on controlling my thoughts at work which was a huge challenge in the beginning.

Finally. Sandi I think you are right. This is going to take a physical separation for her to truly experience life without me. The only way I can look at it is that I would then get sole time with my kids. We can be spontaneous and do what we want when we want within reason of course. My personality will come out more and I believe the relief of tension will get theirs out more and allow for their growth as well. It won't be all roses and rainbows, but some days definitely will be.

Please give me some feedback on this guys. I am way less emotional than I was. In fact, even typing this I am calm. Usually my heart would race through these, but it is more of a matter of fact post than a truly uncontrolled emotional rant or comments.

[sandi2]

And no, I do not know how an EA feels to the WW or anyone for that matter. I guess from the readings that it is almost harder than a PA since the fantasy is real and never damaged.

I see the fantasy as being the "fog" that MWD talks about. When it is at its strongest, the WW can act as if some alien has switched bodies. I call it "la-la land", b/c she is so caught up in her EA excitement and dreams of how things will be once she gets out of the M. Her H can try as hard as he can to tell her how it will be, but she doesn't hear him. She has to have something that opens her eyes and shakes the fantasy. It usually takes some type of loss......and it depends on the individual as to what the loss is and/or how great. I'm not necessarily speaking of material losses, but something that is hugely important to her. Once her eyes are opened and she sees her reality, she may choose to continue on that path or try to make amends and reconcile with her H. Sometimes it is too late to reconcile the MR, b/c one of the spouses has remarried and moved on with a new life. Some women continue to stay wayward after their fantasy collapses, b/c they have a harden heart and refuse to repent of their infidelity and make amends with the H. Infidelity, deceitfulness, disrespectful behavior, lies, etc., are manifestations of a wayward heart/mindset. Waywardness is built on rebellion and disrespect, and some people choose not to change b/c it would require too much from them.

As long as the H supports the WW with a comfy lifestyle and nothing is required from her, then the chances of her waywardness changing is very unlikely. Remember, an affair is not what defines a wayward wife. The waywardness was already there in her heart when she chose to cheat. The H may get a big wake up when the bomb drops, and he gets focused on the possibility of another person being in the picture. However, it is the waywardness that is the original enemy to the MR. Her disrespect and rebellion is leading her to do these other things that destroy a M.

I met the OM on a dating site. When it turned into an EA, and we claimed to be each other's love, I took my profile down, b/c I wasn't interested in paying for it if I wasn't going to use it. I told him that I took my name off, and foolishly thought he would do the same......if he was serious. He claimed he forgot about it. Really? Even when the monthly bill arrived? Later, when I begin to suspect things weren't all that he claimed, I rejoined the site just long enough to see if his profile was still there........and it was. Surprise, surprise!

Anyway, your W may be shopping for someone, or enjoying the thrill of candidates who are flirting/sexting/pursuing her. She can build quite a list of admirers, once she starts getting responses. There is usually a flirtatious period of chatting, sending photos, lots of flattery, etc., that goes on until one of them decides to move on, if there is no physical meeting.

[Dtrmned]

Thanks Sandi.
This is truly insightful into the mind of a WW. I was humored as to the profile she has up stating all of her sports or physical hobbies. She even suggested that she loves to take a hike everyday. In her current medical state and for the last few years this is impossible. So the fantasy truly exists. She is a great chameleon with her feelings as she isn't chuckling, smiling or making any type of reactions to her phone. And again, she is rarely on it in front of me and it is not constantly going off either. That said, I am not a fool and realize that the odds very great that she is in communication with at least one or several possibilities. Whether she is in an EA or just flirting/texting/etc. No idea. But I cannot be dumb and at this point I believe I have to assume the worst.

I would love your (and everyone else who knows my sitch) to let me know your thoughts on moving ahead, filing and getting this moving. I see this not as a way to shake her out, but as the only true path to protect myself and my kids. I truly don't want a D, but I see no other alternative. If there are any that any of you could think of, please let me know!!

[Dtrmned]

Bumping and hoping for some input on the above post.
Thanks!

[Davide]

Looking at your dates, BD was a year ago? I can't imagine living in the same house with a WAS for a year. I would imagine that getting out of the in-house separation is an important step. Is there any way that you can do that without filing? If not, I would consider filing. But that is a personal decision that you need to decide that you are ready for. What would be worse right now continuing on as is or starting anew after D?

[LH19]

JS,

Look man there are no easy answers. You say you truly don't want a D so you shouldn't file for a D.

What it comes down to is what are your boundaries, your values how do you view yourself.

Are your boundaries I will not be in a M with someone who is actively seeking other men on a dating site? Do you love yourself and value yourself enough to say this is BS and I am not going to put up with it anymore? Do you see yourself as a catch and realize there are plenty of woman out there that would love to have a guy like me?

IMO you should start with trying to get her to move out of the house. Tell her you are done with the BS and offer to pack her $hit and put it in the garage until she can make arrangements to pick it up when she gets a place.

If you continue to wait for something to change while you are still living together, you are going to suffer immensely my friend. If you keep doing what you been doing you will keep getting what you have been given.

[sandi2]

She even suggested that she loves to take a hike everyday. In her current medical state and for the last few years this is impossible.

My experience was discovering that people would post a photo of themselves when they were much younger, and pretty much embellish everything about themselves. That's the thing......they hide behind a computer screen or phone, and pretend to be someone they aren't. I had one guy who posted a photo of himself. He looked like a gorgeous Hollywood hunk who appeared no older than his late 30's. I would have sworn it was an old photo of Huge O'Brian in his younger years. Anyway, I sort of laid a trap for him, and short story...... I learned he was really 81.....and he wasn't Huge O'Brian. So much for the Hollywood hunk!

I would love your (and everyone else who knows my sitch) to let me know your thoughts on moving ahead, filing and getting this moving. I see this not as a way to shake her out, but as the only true path to protect myself and my kids. I truly don't want a D, but I see no other alternative.

I have a question. Why does it have to be a divorce or nothing? I mean, why can't it be a physical separation? Maybe even a legal separation? Has your lawyer said a divorce would be cheaper than separating? I know in the past you said you couldn't afford two places, etc. But you were speaking like you'd continue to fully support her if you separated. Did you ask your lawyer about it? I don't know why you would be forced to financially support her 100%. However, I am not experienced in those areas, so IDK. Your lawyer should explain the options and how your finances would be least affected.

As I have previously said, I think it's going to take her having to live on her own, before anything changes to where she'd consider being a committed and intimate MR. This is why it's called tough love, b/c it isn't easy to see our loved ones suffer, but as long they are enabled by us or someone else...….their behavior pattern won't likely change. Living with her, enables her to continue doing this current behavior. If you can live that way.....then I'm not going to tell you to get a divorce. Frankly, I think you'd feel like a victim all the time, but that's JMHO. I will tell you that the changes you've made, have not been enough to change her. At best, I think you'd be like roommates. She'll continue to tell you that she's preparing to leave, b/c she knows it keeps you on a very short lease and that you will do anything to prevent her leaving. She knows it. In the meantime, she has someone taking care of her children, taking care of her, and providing a comfortable living. Nothing is being required from her. Do you get what I'm saying? She can live in this situation b/c nothing is required from her. When she doesn't feel well, she can go to bed and leave everything to you. What if she didn't have you? How would things change? That's what I'm saying. I think the only way she will change her relationship with you, is to have her living arrangement changed to where it takes you out of her home.

You can't stay with her in order to prevent her from having an affair. If she wants to cheat, there is a way.....believe me. If she wants to have a PA, she'll figure out how to do it. There are some women who have men come into their homes all the time, and the H is unaware anything is happening. As long as a guy can physically get to her, then her health won't stop them from doing the deed. Sorry to be so blunt, but I think maybe you were in a bit of denial about her not having the time to have an affair, and/or not being physically well enough. Seeing some of her phone activity has, perhaps, changed your mind.....IDK. ((hugs)) So sorry you are hurting.

[Dtrmned]

Thanks for the input everyone!
The situation just stinks.
It has been going on too long.
She doesn't care and has proven it time and time again.
Sandi, if she were to move out and we were just separated without a legal document, then she would just be cake eating with a place to get laid. There is not enough money there to support two households.
She is done. There is nothing I can do at this moment to change anything other than doing what i have done all of the time we have been together...give her what she wants.
Caution to her: Be careful what you wish for...

[Dtrmned]

i believe this is the beginning of the end.
W said a lot of things last night that just proves she has zero respect for me, doesn't like me and is determined to see this through.
I am totally distraught and very sad but eerily calm. Thank you all so much. I would have never made it to this place without the support here. I am not leaving and will post as this goes through. Also, I am not giving up either. As discussed many times by some great people here, my W has not had the opportunity to experience life without me. I'm sure when it happens there will be a short euphoric time for her. I wish her the best and only happiness. I also hope that sometime in the future that there may be a chance for us if the timing is right for both of us (I may have moved on by then) Weird part is that my sadness continues. I am not bitter although I still hate the situation and believe we are better together than apart. She mentioned again last night on how she was "waiting on a mediator to get back to her but she hasn't heard back" Apparently mediators in our area are so busy they can't return calls or emails for 2 weeks and have an inability to want to have a successful business. Hogwash!

I, prior to yesterday, secured my A and we are meeting this morning to begin drafting the petition. I will get it done, present it to my wife when it is ready and hopefully sign and then just the waiting period. I will treat her as fairly as I can and I know it won't be anywhere close to what she wants so this may all just blow up to full blown battling A's. What a waste. The knot in my stomach is for my kids. My W is doing all she can to break my D and I apart and make sure that she ends up hating me. On that front, the only thing I can do is support my D, be there for her and do my best as a father. I have made many mistakes on the parenting front but make no mistake, I love my kids more than anything!
My W also said I was overcompensating with my S and kissing his butt to make sure he is ok. I am coddling him a bit as he is younger, more naive and needs a decent male role model in his life. I am and will continue to be that.

My belief is my W still has no idea on how she is going to pull this off. Is delusional in what she believes she can live on and right now the only thing she wants is to get away from me. Hardest thing she said to me last night was "I am myself, I just choose not to let you see it. Everyone else does and I love being myself I just hate being around you".

I have often thought that I truly could be the problem and I own what I did wrong. My W is in full denial on anything she did or has an amazingly twisted justification for it all. Sheltered from the world, the rude awakening will be coming for her. I would love to see her thrive, be happy and successful. I have my doubts that unless she was just faking it for almost a decade, I just don't see that happening. After all of this, I still love her with all my heart and soul and for this I must let her go.

I will DB my way through this whole thing. Even though I am choosing this route it is not out of desire to D, but just the reality of the situation. I didn't bring it up, but W is not interested in a separation, and frankly neither am I. With a separation, she still has me on the hook and knows I am still there for her.

As I have read on this board many times in the past. The in home separation has done nothing but simmer, stew and make our situation untenable. IF my W would allow some fun back into our life we would have had a chance. She chose to curl in her corner.

I don't blame her either. A catastrophic calamity of circumstances that even individually would have been hard to handle. Add them all together and the recipe just spelled doom. Different times, different attitudes, better tools, all might have made a difference. But it happened in the worst possible way.

Hope is there and I believe will be there for awhile but I will not cling to that for my daily crumbs of "what might have been". She is an adult and has made her decision.

Again. PLEASE don't abandon me on here. I know I will need support, guidance and a lot of feedback as I go through this phase. My emotions have even come stronger just writing this so I will end on the note that this is just a paperwork process. It changes nothing on how I feel towards my W.

[SteveLW]

JustSad, why are you filing for D? What is the main reason?