Help Please! 4

[neffer]

So you need to keep working on yourself. No matter what the outcome should be. You need to keep GAL. It´s about patience and having no expectations. It takes time. Free yourself and enjoy your life. As Steve says, you can do some experimentation here and there but there´s no need to pull the rope. Au contraire: show her you are amoafwl. Act casual, in fact don´t act...live it!

[SteveLW]

T, wow you are overthinking this.

Look, LLs like anything else in DBing should be done WITH NO EXPECTATIONS.

It shouldn't be "Oh I will perform acts of service, and give her gifts, in the hopes that she wants to have sex with me!" That is the wrong approach Plus it smacks of NGS, which might have been a large part of your problem from the beginning.

I don't normally do this, but let me give you a synopsis of my sitch.

SSM, for years. I had NGS tendencies. I would do things (many of the LLs even though I didn't realize it) expecting sex in return. Then I would get disappointed so I would withdraw. Not just LLs, but I would withdraw emotionally. I would harp on her inadequacies. I essentially was making the problem worse.

Finally at the end of last year she had had enough. A perfect storm of suddenly getting a lot of attention through an online singing app, coupled with a bit of a MLC, plus not having her needs met for years plus all of the above, she fell into an EA. I caught it early. At first did the wrong things (begged, pleaded, reasoned, used logic, etc). Then remembered DBing (she had an EA for similar reasons in 2005 so I already knew about DBing) 2 days in and completely changed my approach.

For 2 months it looked hopeless. She wanted nothing to do with R. She certainly was interested in sex with me, and even started discussing sleeping separately.

I kept DBing to the best of my ability (and I was far from perfect). Part of the turnaround started in MC. MC suggested LLs. We read it, took the test. Her LL were Words of Affirmation and Receiving GIfts. I started filling her love tank with both of those.

Mine were Physical Touch and Quality Time. Two things she wanted least of the 5 LLs! But slowly that turned.

First she came and asked me if we could have sex without kissing and pretending I was somebody else. I agreed with no expectations. Then she asked if we could have sex with just no kissing. She turned into an insatiable sex machine (you can read this in my threads). Then she started wanting to spend time together! It was amazing.

So embrace speaking to her in her LL. Eventually she might come around like my W did. Mine went from wanting nothing to do with me, to full blown sex and quality time in about 3 months.

[Terapin]

T, wow you are overthinking this.

Look, LLs like anything else in DBing should be done WITH NO EXPECTATIONS.

It shouldn't be "Oh I will perform acts of service, and give her gifts, in the hopes that she wants to have sex with me!" That is the wrong approach Plus it smacks of NGS, which might have been a large part of your problem from the beginning.

I don't normally do this, but let me give you a synopsis of my sitch.

SSM, for years. I had NGS tendencies. I would do things (many of the LLs even though I didn't realize it) expecting sex in return. Then I would get disappointed so I would withdraw. Not just LLs, but I would withdraw emotionally. I would harp on her inadequacies. I essentially was making the problem worse.

Finally at the end of last year she had had enough. A perfect storm of suddenly getting a lot of attention through an online singing app, coupled with a bit of a MLC, plus not having her needs met for years plus all of the above, she fell into an EA. I caught it early. At first did the wrong things (begged, pleaded, reasoned, used logic, etc). Then remembered DBing (she had an EA for similar reasons in 2005 so I already knew about DBing) 2 days in and completely changed my approach.

For 2 months it looked hopeless. She wanted nothing to do with R. She certainly was interested in sex with me, and even started discussing sleeping separately.

I kept DBing to the best of my ability (and I was far from perfect). Part of the turnaround started in MC. MC suggested LLs. We read it, took the test. Her LL were Words of Affirmation and Receiving GIfts. I started filling her love tank with both of those.

Mine were Physical Touch and Quality Time. Two things she wanted least of the 5 LLs! But slowly that turned.

First she came and asked me if we could have sex without kissing and pretending I was somebody else. I agreed with no expectations. Then she asked if we could have sex with just no kissing. She turned into an insatiable sex machine (you can read this in my threads). Then she started wanting to spend time together! It was amazing.

So embrace speaking to her in her LL. Eventually she might come around like my W did. Mine went from wanting nothing to do with me, to full blown sex and quality time in about 3 months.

Wow. Thanks for this. To say that you and I's sitch's were similar is an understatement, at least regarding doing things with expectations. W has said this several times throughout the years, and even last night again said that she shies away from simple 'touches' because of me thinking/expecting it will lead to sex. and when it doesn't/wouldn't, I would get mad. Sometimes that's true and sometimes not, but that's her perception, and I can't disagree with it.

The hard part is coming to terms with the fact that she's soooo far removed from wanting anything to lead to sex. Like it's a bad thing or something.

the other hard part is me always seemingly being the one to fill her love tank, but her not willing or able to fill mine. But patience is a virtue right?

Thanks again. This helped!

[AnotherStander]

First, 5LL is NOT a book for fixing a WAS. Please understand that. The reason we suggest 5LL here is it helps you to understand what you may have been doing wrong in the M and why you ended up here. But you've got to be very careful about implementing anything you learn in it because that can come off to her as pressure and pursuit.

The results were a little disappointing, but expected.

Disappointing? The idea of the book is to help you understand that you and your W very likely do not have the same primary LL. So, sit down and brace yourself- the two of you are DIFFERENT! Shocking, right? There is no "right" or "wrong" primary LL. Yours is what it has always been and so has hers. The problem is you've probably been treating her like her LL is the SAME as yours, and the purpose of the book is to help you understand why that DAMAGES a relationship.

My LL's were tied between Affirmation and Touch.

W's main LL is Acts of Service, followed (I think) by Gifts.

Most men are PT and most women are WoA or AoS. So there's really no surprise there.

Again, I haven't gotten to those chapters in the book yet, so initially I'm having trouble processing the results. I've always thought that she didn't have much physical attraction to me because of the lack of sex and intimacy, and this kind of reaffirmed that?

Not necessarily. All you know now is what her PRIMARY LL is. That doesn't mean she doesn't "like" any of the other LL's. Quite the opposite in fact, people usually respond positively to all the LL's, it's just that one or two have higher value to them than the others. For women to enjoy sex they need to connect intimately with their partner. Men can turn sex drive on and off like a light switch, but with women it's more like a rheostat. You have to fill her emotional bank account in HER love language, and THAT makes her feel more intimate with you. So if her primary LL is AoS and you never, ever do anything for her then she won't feel that connection that makes her want to have sex with you. But if you are constantly performing AoS for her then that makes her feel loved, and in return she will WANT to make you feel loved in YOUR LL. Part of the book talks about how a woman wanted her H to fix the front porch. She kept nagging him and he kept blowing it off. So the author/ doc suggested she go out of her way to fill his love tank and not say another word about the porch. She did, and about a week later she comes home and there he is working away on the porch. She made him happy so he WANTED to make her happy.

I also kind of feel like my LLs are very specific to her. Meaning, there's nobody else that could meet those needs for me (sex, intimacy, saying 'I love you', etc).

Well you are wrong about that, the world is full of available women and there's not only one in the entire world that can meet your needs. It may seem like that to you right now (post-BD) but it's not the case. You really need to put that idea out of your head because it'll make you way too clingy and desperate.

But AoS and Gifts could be done by anybody. I mean, If she would rather the lawn be mowed or dishes done instead of having sex or cuddling, then couldn't a maid or butler meet those needs for her?

You really need to read the book because you are not understanding the concepts at all! She doesn't want AoS from a butler or stranger, she wants it from her SO.

and physical touch so unimportant to her

Again, the test only tells you her PRIMARY LL. The one that's MOST important to her. That doesn't mean she doesn't like PT.

I think the exercise ended negatively, with her feeling like her answers were 'wrong' or not what I wanted to hear.

Based on your comments here I suspect she got that impression from YOU.

And me thinking that my main LL will never be met because it's so unimportant to her. She also said that sex now, since it's been so long, would be 'awkward'.

Fill her "love tank" through her primary LL and she will want to fill your love tank through your LL.

Again I'm not suggesting you do the above right now, because your W is a WAS. Rather I'm trying to explain the concepts of the book. If you're going to try and implement anything from the book make sure it is NOT sexual. For example, if her PLL is WoA then DO NOT start lavishing physical compliments on her about how beautiful or sexy she is because that is a huge turnoff to a WAS. But you can give WoA in non-sexual ways like complimenting her on her parenting skills.

[AnotherStander]

Look, LLs like anything else in DBing should be done WITH NO EXPECTATIONS.

It shouldn't be "Oh I will perform acts of service, and give her gifts, in the hopes that she wants to have sex with me!" That is the wrong approach Plus it smacks of NGS, which might have been a large part of your problem from the beginning.

Amen to that, the classic "covert contract". I mean we all do stuff with at least some expectations, but we have to understand that there is no GUARANTEE that those expectations will be met. If they are then great, if not then we should never pout and shut down and close ourselves off because that just leads to confusion and resentment from our spouse. What we should do is just keep filling their love tank and be patient!

Her LL were Words of Affirmation and Receiving GIfts. I started filling her love tank with both of those.

Mine were Physical Touch and Quality Time. Two things she wanted least of the 5 LLs! But slowly that turned.

First she came and asked me if we could have sex without kissing and pretending I was somebody else. I agreed with no expectations. Then she asked if we could have sex with just no kissing. She turned into an insatiable sex machine (you can read this in my threads). Then she started wanting to spend time together! It was amazing.

So embrace speaking to her in her LL. Eventually she might come around like my W did. Mine went from wanting nothing to do with me, to full blown sex and quality time in about 3 months.

Thank you for that great personal example, that's what I was trying to describe in my previous post!

[Terapin]

Thanks AS. I'm going to finish the book now.

Just a few things. When I said about how nobody in the world could meet those needs for me except her. I didn't mean that nobody else is capable. I just meant that now and for the entirety of our M, there's nobody else I wanted to meet those needs except her.

Again, the act of service LL to me is the most confusing. I mean seriously, if someone asked a spouse, 'would you rather make love to your spouse, or have your spouse take out the garbage?, or 'would you rather your spouse wash dishes or give you a massage?'. If they pick garbage and dishes, to me that's kind of an insult. Again, I'm probably completely misunderstanding that LL.

Yeah, it was uncomfortable at the end, because of me. Like I said originally, I'm not mad about it, nor am I surprised by the results. It just seemed odd that every time Touch or Quality time was a choice, she chose the other like 95% of the time.

[SteveLW]

I mean seriously, if someone asked a spouse, 'would you rather make love to your spouse, or have your spouse take out the garbage?, or 'would you rather your spouse wash dishes or give you a massage?'. If they pick garbage and dishes, to me that's kind of an insult. Again, I'm probably completely misunderstanding that LL.

You are misunderstanding. You are confusing the questions used in the quiz to determine primary love language as THE love language.

In other words, the question might say that, but no one really has to choose between the two. Its not like in a healthy MR the H or W says..."Hmmm, do you want to hop in the sack, or would you rather I do the dishes for you?" Quite the opposite in fact.

Remember, this is HOW the spouse FEELS loved. Believe it or not, most women do not feel loved simply because a man is willing to put his penis in her vagina. Heck, even a below average in attractiveness woman can get 90% of men to do that. Do you think 90% of men love her? Of course not, and she knows that.

So she FEELS LOVED when you DO things.....for her!! Most Ws will tell you that Hs want sex.....FOR THEMSELVES. And guess what, that is almost certainly true.

But when a dude wants to do the dishes for her. Or changes the sheets for her. Or clean the bathroom for her. Simply so she doesn't have to, then she feels "wow, he really does love me!"

And guess what....most spouses that feel loved want to also show their spouse that they love them in return. That is where AS and I say that if you fill her love tank with AoS and WoA (or whatever he secondary was), she will be more apt to want to speak YOUR LL back to you.

So it isn't a "would rather do A or B" as much as it is a "when you do A to show her you love her she will be more likely to do B to show you she loves you back" type of thing.

[AnotherStander]

When I said about how nobody in the world could meet those needs for me except her. I didn't mean that nobody else is capable. I just meant that now and for the entirety of our M, there's nobody else I wanted to meet those needs except her.

Being loyal is good. Thinking there is only one person in the world that can meet your needs is bad. Do you think alpha males think that way? That is a very, very beta thing to say.

I mean seriously, if someone asked a spouse, 'would you rather make love to your spouse, or have your spouse take out the garbage?, or 'would you rather your spouse wash dishes or give you a massage?'. If they pick garbage and dishes, to me that's kind of an insult.

Try and understand this- you are looking at things from your own narrow point of view. You need to understand that someone else may have different focuses and objectives than you. It's really the same as you preferring Mexican food and her preferring Italian, but you find it shocking and disturbing that her preference is not the same as yours. So you keep pushing your own agenda because you think hers is wrong. The whole idea of DB'ing is to learn HER point of view, to see how SHE sees you and to correct your shortcomings. You will never be able to do that as long as you cling to this "I am right and she is wrong" mindset.

Yeah, it was uncomfortable at the end, because of me. Like I said originally, I'm not mad about it, nor am I surprised by the results. It just seemed odd that every time Touch or Quality time was a choice, she chose the other like 95% of the time.

And you think it's odd because it is not how YOU see things. This is classic "men are from mars, women from venus" stuff. You don't understand what makes her tick because you think she should think, act and behave just like you. You fail to realize she's from a completely different planet than you with different values and ideals. If you want her to be attracted to you again then you need to learn about HER planet and seek to understand how SHE feels.

She doesn't give preference to physical touch. You don't give preference to AoS. But if she does something for you are you repulsed by it? Of course not, just because it's not your PLL doesn't mean you don't like it and respond positively to it. The goal of the book is to teach you that YOUR PLL is NOT the only LL in the world. There are multiple LL's, and you are to strive to appeal to your SO through ALL of them, with special attention to her primary one.

She's very different from you. Instead of complaining about it you need to learn why she's different, what is different about her, how she thinks and feels, and be sensitive and reactive to that. Get good at it and she will think you are the sexiest man alive. Like Steve said above, his W turned into a sexual dynamo even though PT isn't her PLL.

[Terapin]

Ok, just read the rest of the book. you guys are obviously right, and i misunderstood most of what I originally thought.

It's not that she enjoys me taking out the garbage, it's the fact that I do it, without complaint, so she doesn't have to worry about it. It's still not my LL, and to be honest it's hard to believe it is a LL. But I get it.

The problem now and going forward is, I always thought I did do most of those things. Again, not great or consistent. But I always did what I thought was a fair share of the chores, shopping, etc. Hmmm, that's going to be a future conversation.

[SteveLW]

But I always did what I thought was a fair share of the chores

180 chance here. Start doing what you think is a great share of the chores so that she feels loved by you!