DB / Detach- Will we ever piece it together

[SteveLW]

Dropped off d4 this morning. Had breakfast at w house. We brought the positive energy. W is distancing herself. Says it shouldnt be offensive and it’s ok. She feels like she’s hungover every day and hasn’t been drinking.

She told Me how happy she was and she has butterflies and loves me. Then she pulls away and feels worse... hello?! She seems only to be able to use the emotional side of her brain.

The WAW and especially the WW are flighty creatures that try to satisfy every whim they have as soon as they have it. She is running on pure emotion, you are dead on with this.

I think sometime soon I have to have a blunt conversation with her. Yes it’ll be critical and she’ll probably cry. But wtf I can’t keep doing this to myself. Yes I want it to work.

STOP BEING SO EMOTIONAL. You just pointed out how she can only use the emotional side of her brain, and then you start falling into the same trap. Just yesterday you said "I am not starting anymore R talks!" And then today "She isn't doing what I want so I am going to have a blunt conversation with her." JUST STOP. Remove all pressure. Remove all pursuit. You've fallen into the classic trap set by WAWs. "I'll have sex with him and then he'll be eating out of my hand again!" REMEMBER!! You were supposed to have ZERO expectations. This is NOT having ZERO expectations.

I guess back to being less available and not reaching out. Looks like no day date to creek tomorrow. If she says she does want to go I don’t even know what to say. I’m not cool with scraps and back and forth. It hurts.

Why did this ever stop? She should be chasing you, not the other way around. So make her chase. She can't chase when she is being chased. That is called running into each other.

She sees the 180s is attracted to me. Knows I’m a great guy.

Are you sure? Or is it more about securing Oct. (and nov, and dec, and 2019) support?

Haven’t paid Oct support.

Good. Don't. Don't even bring it up. If she does tell her, "Oh, our agreement was for 3 months only. I am not okay with extending it beyond that."

[Did]

W asked me to go for a walk tomorrow. I guess we are keeping our plans to go for a hike. I didnt share my negative emotion with her although she picked up some of it at the end of our time together today.

IC and I discussed many things that are reiterated on the forum. She says write down all the good things W said and use it as affirmations. Stick in my pocket and dont even say anything nice back to her just say thank you. Do things your passionate about. Its attractive when you are busy with youre lifes purpose and passionate about something besides her.

Talked about attachment injury when we had sex then she pulled away this is a real thing. Talked about mirror neurons how we mirror each others emotions.

Said use my higher power and belief that we are all connected through energy. Get outside.

Protect myself emotionally by having. No expectations. Be a differentiated person- I am ok on my own and dont need anyone.

[sandi2]

Did, have you been sexually intimate with the other lady? The way you and your W are going, I think it could be hazardous to date other people....and especially have sex with others. Although you've told the OW that you can't provide or aren't looking for the same things that she might currently desire...…..that's not enough. You need to stop seeing her until you get your relationship with W straighten out. I mean, you are playing with fire, if you are having sex with both women! And, here's the thing...….for some women, it becomes a competition with each other. Your W is not soft=hearted or cares a flip about the OW's feelings. Don't believe that for a second! She knows another woman wants her H, so that alone makes you more sexually appealing (butterflies included) to her. It's just like when the H is competing against OM for his W's favors. Your W is doing the same thing. She wants you available to her, but she doesn't want you getting too close. In other words, she wants what she can't have, and if she can have it.....then she loses interest and claims she feels smothered, feeling anxious....whatever. She wants everything on her terms, but she's too wishy-washy to even know what it is if she saw it. She seems to operate completely based on whatever her emotions dictate at any given moment. Her emotions are fickle, therefore, so is her needs and desire and how that plays out with you. One day, she's not, the next day she's cold. What's changed? Her emotional thermometer.

I have not commented on your stitch in some time, b/c frankly, I felt my words were falling on deaf ears. Not just my words, but everyone's. Not that you've been rude or said anything offensive, b/c you have been very nice. I just wonder if you truly believe what we say really works. Maybe you are listening to too many outside sources of advice, IDK. Sometimes it can get confusing when living under emotional stress and trying to grasp so much information. I just see a young man who has trouble staying balanced in his actions. And if I've ever seen a stitch that needs balance, this one does. Do you know what I mean? You jump from one extreme to the polar opposite. The sad thing is...….your W does the same thing! I really don't know if she needs therapy, or if she is one of these women who gets her kicks by manipulating the man with her "helplessness" and erratic emotions/behavior. Either way, she probably needs therapy. If I had to guess, I would take a stab at saying she worked her parents in similar fashion. Maybe that is her MO in most all of her relationships. All I can say is that it will make you an old man fast, if you try to keep her satisfied in a MR......and I'm not talking sexually, but that is a strong possibility, too.

I speak plain, but I'm not trying to hurt you more than you already are suffering. I see this relationship as being unhealthy and without both of you fully cooperating with a therapist, I don't know if it will get better. I think she needs individual therapy before having couples therapy. That's just my opinion.

((hugs))

[Did]

Sandi thanks for your time. I was sexual w OW. And I have stopped seeing her. I completely agree that W needs IC. I also agree she wants what she can’t have. She was not like this in the MR. But this is who she is at this point. I guess I just need to continue DB and be less available. Last week were sleeping together and kissing. Now barely touching. IC told me it’s called an attachment injury and that it’s a real thing that hurts. I can’t keep doing this to myself. But I love her. She still has anxiety anytime D4 is around. It’s hard to believe this is who I want to spend my life with. Maybe she could change again. But I can’t make her do IC.

She knows she’s inconsistent and she knows it’s hurtful. I’m planning on not talking to her much. We were together today we were supposed to go on a hike I wanted to meet at her house but she said let’s meet there so we have more time together. Then we couldn’t find each other at the trail I guess we were at different parking lots close by each other. Both of us were disappointed. We ended up eating lunch together outside.

[AnotherStander]

I figured Steve would be on here yelling st me by now lol.

All we can do is offer advice, it's up to you whether you follow it or not. If you don't, it's to your own detriment. We don't really yell at people for not listening although we do get frustrated at times. And like Sandi said, sometimes we just quit replying if someone isn't following advice because frankly our time is better spent with people who listen and follow through. So keep that in the back of your mind if you want continued support.

By today can’t happen again she meant the R talk affecting her so much. Pressure guilt all this stuff she can’t handle. And she breaks down and it affects her a ton. I just have to completely stop with the R talk or expectations.

There is no one here that's the least surprised by her response. Applying pressure in the form of R talks just never, ever works. She is a whirlwind of emotions right now and the LAST thing she wants is you saying/doing things that just make it worse. TIME and SPACE is what you should give her.

Not sure if I’ve mentioned this but she fantasizes abouthaving sex with a man and her partner watching then joining. Not sure fin that’s appropriate for this site. The last two guys she dated wanted to do that with her. So I’m not sure where the idea came from. But she has talked about being open to it in regard to being compatible long term. I’ve kind of tip toed the line saying fantasies and thoughts are fine but not sure about going down the path. Swinging is probably not for me A friend of mine had a friend commit suicide over things like this with sharing his woman.

This isn't a site for kids, and sex is a topic that often comes up in these discussions and it is fine to talk about it. We've had more than one person here who ended up here specifically because their spouse wanted to bring a 3rd party into the R "just for fun" but inevitably feelings get mixed up in it and the R deteriorated instead of getting stronger.

I encouraged my GF to share her fantasies with me and she had some pretty wild sexual fantasies including having a 3rd party involved. We explored her fantasies but just the two of us, and (without trying to be too explicit) using toys and imagination to sort of simulate a 3rd party. She later told me that that fulfilled her fantasies and that it made her happy I was so willing to experiment, but that she decided she would rather explore those things -only- with me. So basically I never told her "no" to any of her fantasies, but instead offered alternatives that didn't involve a 3rd party and that made her happy.

That said, I don't think the two of you should be talking about sex AT ALL. That needs to be tabled for now. Maybe you can discuss it down the road if you start working on recon.

[SteveLW]

In the midst of my W's waywardness a threesome was joked about. She said she was for it, if it was another guy. It was one of those half-joking, half-not-so-much-joking things. I took the opportunity to tell her flat out that I would be opposed to a 3rd party, male or female. Period. A hard boundary for me.

It never came up again.

[mtb1981]

I'm just gonna be blunt here. She had sex with you because she wants you to keep paying her bills. You need to move forward and focus on you. Drop the rope. If she comes back, she comes back. If she doesn't she doesn't. I think it would be best for you to stop the cycle you're in and live you life for you. Either she'll noticed and be attracted back to you or she won't. Bu t at this point, you're just torturing yourself...

[Loves77]

Hi Did!

Long time! Thought I'd stop in and check up on you. And I hate to say it but not surprised by anything I have read. You and your wife clearly cannot leave the other alone.

I'll add my input. Not sure if you will really even try to listen bc I honestly don't think you will leave her alone anyways. Lol. But here goes. I find it a crazy coincidence that your wife starts telling you her sexual needs within a few weeks of hearing that you have been dating another woman. But, that was your goal, wasn't it Did? You keep pointing out all of her quirks and odditys but I'm inclined to think that you are a little more focused on getting in bed with her than you let on. In almost all of your post you mention your sex life or lack there of with her. And when you would get really upset you mention dating another woman. I'm not blaming you bcyou had went on for a while without. It's just something that I noticed. The reason I say this is bc I have an idea your wife knows your sexual appetite. She knows that is why you were with this other woman. It only took one time with your wife and you started saying that the other woman did not have the same spark with you.

You tend to over analyze everything she says and want to talk about the relationships every week. I don't blame her for being annoyed. Who wants to talk about that EVERY SINGLE WEEK?!?! Good grief man!

A lot of people have commented about you still giving her support. I suspect that you will continue and I'm prolly the only person on here who thinks the money is irrelevant at this point. I guess in one way it isn't. They say that is her motive and that if you don't she will be pissed. But, let's be honest, why wouldn't she be and rightfully so. You have agreed to it. I don't know, to me if a couple months of support would save your marriage it's worth it. But maybe they are right who knows.

I'm really thinking that you and her are still more involved with each other than you both met on. You guys are basically in each other's lives daily. Way more than most on here. So I'd imagine you two will eventually come back together.

[ovrrnbw]

I'm so glad Loves came in and posted! I was thinking about you the other day when Did said "Steve is gonna yell at me". I was thinking "haha Loves would too if she were here".

Did, hope you're doing well, wherever you are.

[Did]

Lot has happened. W got in a car accident 2 nights ago. She was drunk. She was calling me from her car. Saying she didnt know where she was etc. It was bad. I was extremely worried. She got lucky a guy picked her up and brought her to my house and she went back and got her car the next day. She would of gotten a DUI for sure. I dont know why she went to my house instead of her own but she did.

We had more sex the next day. She talked to me about everything. The desire to have an honest relationship in every way. So she told me all her stuff. Her other men. She is pen pals with OM2 she says and she tells sex stories to him. She admits she loves him. I told him she would be with him if she could and she does not deny it. But they dont see each other. She thinks its because hes unavailable and its a fantasy. She knows he has a lot of flaws and when they were dating it wasnt good. She says they havent seen each other since June. I think she is lying but they arent seeing each other often. He asked her to kiss guys in the past then tell him about it. So she goes on dates then reports to this guy...

She told him about her and I sexually and how good it was. She said he told her it would be better for us being together after the separation. And that he likes hearing about it. He is the one who brought up the 3some with 2 men. He likes watching. She is into the idea partially because he is- my opinion. She continues to be overwhelmed by her sexuality and no where near balance. She sent me a pic in underwear last week and sent the same pic to another guy she went on a date with a few days before. That guy she said tried to hook up with her in the parking lot and she said no. Then he told her how hot she was and she told him not to date other people. The day after this date she asked me for sex and that's when we had the great sex. She says she doesnt like this new guy and hasnt talked to him... then why did she tell him not to date other people. She says she doesnt know.

She logged into her email on my phone since hers broke. She has draft messages shes deleted, a lot of them. Talking about his mental state, time, etc pleasing him and drafts of sexual fantasies. Her telling him a story and him getting aroused, how hot it is etc.

So I see all this on my phone and come back to the house and we talk it out. Then we get into the honest relationship she starts telling me everything.

So back to us.... She is saying she loves me she chooses me she doesnt deserve me shes sorry she feels horrible about herself. She wants to do therapy with sex therapist together and individually. She feels free about telling me everything - obviously this is where the anxiety comes from at least partially. She feels awful about car accident and about where shes at with all these guys like shes such a bad person. I have been positive remember how lucky you are. She told me she cant believe Im still here. She is choosing me she is so lucky. Im a great man Ive done the work Im a great dad Im hotter than any guy. She wants to use toys with me and experiment together and we have had some very sexual talks... I told her I think she is saying some of this because she needs someone. She did open up about a ton of stuff.

So she is saying she wants to date me and no one else. She jumped ahead and talked about what are we going to do in regard to living situation. Im uncomfortable and have a lot of anxiety about all of this. Obviously she needs therapy. I feel like I am either going to pull away or talk to her again. Do I hold out sex? Or just F and leave emotion out of it to satisfy both of our needs as we work through things? She has shared her phone with me and I have with her. She said if she pulls away and wants to distance herself she wont date and wont get online dating etc.

I have already said some of this and we've agreed but life is action not words. If she wants to be with me and continue to sleep with me she will: tell family and friends we're seeing each other, tell OM2 we're seeing each other and stop the sexual texting, be in therapy. We both want trust but how can I trust her. She has been Wayward x10...

Sigh... WTF.