I guess this is piecing

[Did]

Thanks Steve made me laugh. You’re right though.

[Loves77]

You have mentioned at least a few times that she goes after the unavailable, yet you are up her butt. Just an observation.

[Did]

Therapist told W she is a narcissistic magnet. That I have narcissistic issues and control issues. That my anxiety is narcissism. FIrst thing w says Is it was good for me but not for you.

My reaction was ouch stomach drop. Broke out in sweat. Headshot.

[ovrrnbw]

Steve just said you are too hung up on everything she says, and Did, here you go again man! You need to get yourself to the point where what she is saying doesn't hurt like this.

[Did]

I need to detach and not have expectations. But after having a bunch of sex, finally communicating and sharing everything its like here is everything you want but oh... now its all gone. We do the family thing and everyone is happy together which is really all I want. Nothing changes on my end but somehow everything changes.

Last night we talked for 30 min on phone about her IC appt. We talked about taking it slow, I guess we aren't seeing other people still. But she doesn't want to commit to any plans.

I keep seeing things about letting go of relationships that aren't working, moving forward instead of standing still etc. Sign?

W is an introvert and says she needs alone time. What I want doesnt matter per usual.

Trying to focus on work and things I enjoy. Reached out to a few friends to try to make plans this weekend. Nothing set in stone. Still having a hard time connecting with other men.

Sigh... what a process. I thought we were on the right tract. A lot more work to do on myself. I want to be less needy but my needs like healthy communication, dating or getting coffee or some activity just the 2 of us 1x per week, somewhat consistent sex / romance. Are those unrealistic? I honestly feel like Im prettty healthy but the attachment to her is not.

Going to re-read the basics of DB and initial posts when you join here. Back to basics I guess. Trying not to be too frustrated and jump to the worst conclusion.

I see the same IC tomorrow. W says she doesnt know if she is going to see her again she really liekd it but expensive.

She had a catscan and $7500 hospital bill from 2 months ago. She forgot to give them insurance card- insurance I switched us to and included her on while we were separated this year. Insurance got the price down $7050 so she may owe $450... her response.. still expensive. I told her those numbers and she said thank you.

Never grateful / thankful / positive / happy. Sometimes I ask myself... Why am I doing all this for her?

I'm back to being torn a big part of me thinks stop caring, detach, let her go. Thats the only way I know how to be unavailable.

[Did]

My issue is I keep thinking of doing this stuff for her when really I should be doing it for me. Still unsure of where to go from here. Hopefully IC has some insight for me tomorrow.

[SteveLW]

Did, the problem is exactly what I said on my picnic post. You keep doing things with one eye on her. "I'll date Mary, maybe that will make her think I am moving on and scare her that she is losing me!" "I'll do xyz, and hope she takes notice."

DBing isn't about her noticing. She may never notice. So many LBSs get caught up on this. DBing is for you. If the WAS takes notice, great! If not, so what, keep doing what you should be doing.

So take the eye off of her and put it on what you need to be doing. You'll be surprised at how much more effective DBing is for your well-being when you aren't constantly wondering if she is taking note.

[AnotherStander]

I need to detach and not have expectations. But....

The word "but" negates everything before it. What that sentence says is "I need to detach and not have expectations. But I am not detached and I still have expectations." These are Did problems, not W problems. You still have much work to do young padawan.

Last night we talked for 30 min on phone about her IC appt. We talked about taking it slow, I guess we aren't seeing other people still. But she doesn't want to commit to any plans.

She's right, you DO need to take it slow. Both of you. You're probably putting too much pressure on her and that just pushes her away. Take off the pressure.

I keep seeing things about letting go of relationships that aren't working, moving forward instead of standing still etc. Sign?

Ugh. Quit reading tea leaves and piles of bones looking for signs. We are all about ACTION here.

W is an introvert and says she needs alone time. What I want doesnt matter per usual.

LISTEN TO HER. GIVE HER TIME AND SPACE. You're whining about your needs not being met? What about HER needs?

Trying to focus on work and things I enjoy. Reached out to a few friends to try to make plans this weekend. Nothing set in stone. Still having a hard time connecting with other men.

Good! Make it happen!

I want to be less needy but...

There it is again- but. How about just working on being less needy.

my needs like healthy communication, dating or getting coffee or some activity just the 2 of us 1x per week, somewhat consistent sex / romance. Are those unrealistic? I honestly feel like Im prettty healthy but the attachment to her is not.

The expectations aren't unrealistic, just your timeframe. You want things to happen on your timeframe when instead you should be patient and let those things happen when they will. And quite right, the attachment is unhealthy.

I told her those numbers and she said thank you.

Never grateful / thankful / positive / happy. Sometimes I ask myself... Why am I doing all this for her?

Well maybe I'm missing something but last I heard, "thank you" was an expression of gratitude. Were you expecting something more? Do you know what a "covert contract" is? If not then Google it, that's EXACTLY what you had in place. DROP YOUR EXPECTATIONS!!!!

[Did]

Thanks AS. Let’s just stop commenting form a while and I’ll copy and paste AS last post and Steve’s picnic issues one. I’m going to stop pressuring her. Let go of expectations. Detach. Not sure how exactly but I’m going to do it. I’m all about action too.

On the thank you thing that was after I pointed out that the insurance paid 95% and I was just thankful she was ok after car accident. Scary as sht knowing she was black out drunk lost not knowing where she was. Picked up by random man luckily he was a good person and dropped her to my house 40 min away I gave him $60 all I had on me.

Still thinking about W sexually a lot from things we’ve talked about. Can’t believe the sht she said to me like she’s been told she gives the best head in the world. I cut her off like do you think I want To hear that. Keep reliving these convos.
But also Wanting to have the deep conversations we had rexently. Such a weird feeling to have her then have to give space. Having D4 every day seems like a dream. Heading over there tomorrow morning. W asked me to come as early as I could. Just going to be happy and focus on D4. Give W little to no attention unless she’s starts convo that’s what she likes as crazy as it is to me. That’s her i accept it.

Yes I know what covert contracts are. I’ve read NMMNG twice. Maybe I should read it again. Or start catching up on movies- Star Wars only seem the first few. Still lots of work to do young Skywalker.

Hoping IC can give me some insights Friday. Last thing I want to be is narcissistic or controlling.

No expectations. Detach. Patience patience. Stop pursuing.

[sandi2]

I'm not saying there isn't room for personal growth for each of you. When you started posting about your stitch, she sounded very spoiled/pampered by her nice guy H, and maybe her parents. If that's the case, it makes things more difficult for you, IMHO. Mixing NGS with a pampered WW.......well, I think you've experienced some of those results. It can be very challenging to set things aright. Not impossible, but challenging. The most effective work you can do currently, is to change yourself from being Mr. Nice Guy. Recognizing it is a first step, but you can't use it like a handy excuse. Know what I mean? Go beyond just recognizing that you have NGS, and start working to change.

I can't help but think that your W is lacking in general areas, as well as relational, due to her poor mental health. If she would cooperate with a good psychologist, her mindset might improve considerable. (I'm not talking about one of these types that encourage her to engage in a wayward lifestyle). Sometimes, people just need guidance in learning how to think and address life in a healthier way. IDK, but there are times that she sounds messed up...….like she's been influenced by some wacky book or something. She may, also, be experiencing an imbalance of hormones......which would not help the situation.

You know, most of us grow up hearing how you have to compromise in a marriage relationship. We are even told how much (50%) we should compromise...…. but we aren't told what to compromise. This could be dangerous for a NGH, like yourself. IMHO, NGH's are all about compromising and appeasing, hoping to get along with his W. At some point in their relationship, he loses sight of himself as the man, and his NG ways give way to his W (who doesn't like his NGS). I believe as healthy minded women (not wayward minded), we prefer that our men stand up for what's right...….rather than meet half way for what is wrong. Don't let your vision become cloudy, by compromising your integrity, values,. and the M itself, just in order to be with your WW. If you do, then at the end of the day you have to live with whatever you helped form out of a need that may not be healthy or wise. I would think it's like selling a little bit of your soul, but that's just me.

Your WW has already compromised some things that she shouldn't have......and now she's messed up. Rather than follow her into a further mess, you need to be like the lighthouse. Lighthouses don't follow. They stand on a solid foundation and send out a beam of light. Lighthouses don't pursue the sailor lost in the storm, it just continues to give that beam of light for the sailor to follow safely ashore. Your W is in a stormy sea, and if you go into those waters, you both will probably go under. When dealing with a wayward W, a H who is all about trying to convince her to give the M another chance, or make changes he thinks will woo her back...…..is actually compromising with her waywardness. That's why it's unsuccessful. It's the NGH's same old attempts to appease, rather than actually changing how his inner man thinks.

Ultimately, I don't think you will save your M by continuing in this spasmodic on again-off again pattern. It deceives you into thinking you're slowing mending things. Until she gets professional help with her extreme "anxiety" issues, you will be used like a rubber ball. You'll just bounce all over the place, never knowing where you'll land. You need to really take your NGS seriously, and learn how & what to change. You don't your thinking to be as screwy as hers. So, please distant yourself from her drama and focus on reinventing your inner man. ((hugs))