So, my question is, why is he here all the time? He wanted all this space and now that he has it, be spends it here.He wasn't here at all whilst the kids were away for two weeks so I don't think it is because he misses me. And its not the girls because he isn't really spending time with them when he is here. He is just pottering around like before BD and the depression. Is it cake eating?
My H dropped by yesterday morning when I was at work to pick up some clothes for D8 that she needed for school. I only know this because he called me up whilst he was at the house to tell me I had left a window open (urghh). I then came home last night to discover he had installed a camera outside our house. I had bought the camera months ago (before he moved out and he moved out 6 months ago) when our au pair crashed my car into the front wall. I had no proof at the time that she had done this, but as the rear bumper had a massive dent (apparently done outside D8s school) and the front wall was concaved inwards, we kind of figured she was lying. We couldn't prove it at the time, but I decided it was worth getting a camera for the front anyway. Well, as it happens we had to let the au pair go anyway and as things were a bit of a roller coaster between my H and I, the camera was put in a cupboard and forgotten about. Until it appeared on my front wall last night.
I am not sure if I should tell him that he a) shouldn't be dropping by whenever he feels like it and b) it is not his place to install cameras. Even worse, the camera link is to his phone and not mine. I do not know if this is him being extra vigilant (which it could be), him not liking an expensive gadget go to waste in a cupboard (again, very possible, he is extremely tight with money, or c) him wanting to keep an eye on me (again possible, as he has said he does not want me bringing "friends" around to the house).
I don't want to bring it up as we are getting on ok at the moment. Not two people in a relationship friendly, not even two people who are friends, friendly, but at least two people who don't look at each other with a mixture of contempt, sadness and fear. I think we have something that we can at least, for the time being, build a healthy co-parent relationship on and I don't want to rock that boat. So I am venting. I may just switch the camera off and not tell him ??
Also, his step dad is having a birthday party on Sunday. I am not invited as the venue only allows a max of 8 people, which covers H, D8, D12, MIL, FIL, SIL, BIL and my niece. Convenient for everyone, but leaves me a little left out. I do get on with his family, but it does seem that they are leaving me out of things now. I will have to wait for sunday when they all head over there and I am left on my own (again) to see how I really feel. Right now, it is disappointment that his family could let go so quickly. At least it's not anger.
Digressing a little ... one of the reasons he left was we had had au pairs for about 2 years prior to BD. No, it isn't the middle age / au pair affair that jumps into everyones mind. He said that when he was home he felt like he wasn't needed. The au pairs did everything for the girls and he had nothing left to do. He would be home during the day (he works shifts) and he felt like he couldn't be at home in his own home. This came out in marriage counselling, as in "and then YOU brought au pairs because YOU had wanted to work ". Why don't they tell us these things when its happening and not hold on to it until its too late. If he had said it I would have tried to change my work arrangements to be home more. After he left, I stopped having au pairs and I work from home more. This wasn't for him. For a period I couldn't make it into the office (I couldn't face people) and work offered my more flexibility.
It has been a while and I guess that's because things were going well. Not we are getting back together well but I had implemented the rules as well as I could and we seemed to be moving in a positive direction. I was getting on with my life in a positive, non destructive way and I felt that, although he felt further away, it would still work out. Little things - offers to drive me places, asking questions about what i was doing.
Well, that's ended now - I saw him with someone else. I was at dinner with a few of the mums and we decided to go to a club for a quick drink before going home. He was there and he admitted he is seeing her. I dont think its been going on for that long but you never know. I admit I didnt react well. I called him all sorts of names. I called her all sorts of names. He looked sad (normally he gets defensive and goes on the attack over the littlest things) and said "what do you want me to say". Eventually he walked out. I am not proud. I was shocked and i know that my behaviour was beneath me. After holding it in all these weeks - pretending all the time that im fine wheb inside i am an emotional wreck, it all came pouring out. When i got home I threw out and ripped every photo of us from before the children - holidays together, nights out with friends and every photo with just the two of us after the kids. I wanted to rip every memory of him out from our home. I drafted our seperation order.
That was two days ago. Yesterday he called to see if he could come around and see the children and I said we had plans - we did have plans but it was raining so we changed them and stayed indoors instead. He asked if he could come walk the dog. I said no, I would do it. When he called in the evening to speak to the girls and D8 asked if he needed to speak to me, he said no, I dont need to speak to mummy.
Two days later I am still hurting. I dont know if i can face him tomorrow when he comes to get the children.
Do i initiate the seperation order or do I make clear that, without any pressure, that I am still here and the door is still open. I know that our arrangements are to his advantage. He doesnt really give me much money - he covers about 20% of the costs - but if i force him down the legal route and he has to pay what he should, then am i just moving us one step closer to divorce?
I called him to say i wanted to talk. He seemed reluctant at first but agreed we needed to clear the air. I know R talks are against the rules but i couldnt leave it the way it was. We agreed to meet at his flat before he came round to pick up the kids. Neither of us wanted to have the discussion in front of the children in case it turned angry or tearful.
I thought about what i wanted to say. I wanted to apologies for my behaviour. I wanted to tell him the door is still open even though i had no expectations of him coming back. And then i would go.
I made a pretense to the kids that I needed to pop to the shops and drove around to his flat. I said what I needed to say. He accepted the apology, said I was out of line but that he understood the reaction. He said that if the situation was reversed then he would have got upset and just left. He cant understand why i stayed and then tried to have a conversation. He said ok when I said I still loved him. I spoke to him a little about the journey that i am going through (there goes the mystery) and that it has been lonely but positive. He said ok again.
Then we held each other on the sofa. He said that he has been on a few dates with the girl and it is not serious and he hasnt slept with her. Apparently she came down on the train (an hour journey) and then went back kn the last train back. I dont know whether to believe him. I guess it doesnt matter. If he is telling the truth then, even if he is not serious about her, she is hoping for something serious from him. No-one travels an hour in and back for a few drinks unless you want something more.
Anyway, while he held me on the sofa we kissed. He pulled away and said that it was wrong and we shouldn't be doing things like that. Let me be clear - i have avoided physical contact (hugs, kisses) for months and months as well as any forms of familiarity (using pet names, banter). I have stuck to the rules and been all business. But i folded. I asked him if he still loved me "or course i do", i asked him if he still found me attractive "yes - does that make you feel better?", i asked him why he wouldnt kiss me "because it always leads to sex", i asked him of he remembered how much we loved each other and couldnt keep our hands off each other "yes, I've not suffered from memory loss. I remember all those things. Thats why i cant have casual sex with you". I pursued, i pleaded, i broke every rule.
My heart which was near mended ia broken all over again.
Don't lie to the kids, you really think they can't figure out what's going on?
Quote
He said ok when I said I still loved him. I spoke to him a little about the journey that i am going through (there goes the mystery) and that it has been lonely but positive. He said ok again. Then we held each other on the sofa.
WHAT???!!! Why? Totally cemented yourself as plan B. Then he tells you he's dating other women, either while or just after holding you. BUTTTTTT, it's ok b/c he hasn't slept with her. Yea sure. Did you even ask him that? Or did he just come out and say it? You shouldn't believe him either way.
I'm not going to act like I'm a perfect or great DB'er. All I can say is I feel your pain. I've been there and done that. I've started feeling better and then got sucked back in. Way in. That's why you stay detached and don't let yourself be emotionally invested again until they are really, really showing you their commitment. You need to have your own wall up to protect yourself. He is just not ready, and he may never be. And my W may never be ready either. And it really [censored] to say those things. So, focus on something you can control. Get out of the house and get active today, do something! Get your mind off the sitch for a while, truly. Don't go talking to someone about your pain, go "live your best life" (I hate that phrase!).
We all fall off the horse now and again, just get back on!
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
I am so sorry for what you are going through. Reading your posts is very helpful yet also painful as I know too well the kind of pain you are dealing with. I feel like we are in very similar situations although you are further along this process than me. I do not know if there is an OW or OWs in my sitch but I know it is a real possibility even though he swore on our children’s lives that there is no one else...just a confused and unhappy man. Please do not beat yourself up for the recent events. You are only human...your heart as been broken...you cannot do this DB perfectly...you can only pick yourself up off the floor and start over. I am anticipating that I will need to do this myself multiple times over the coming months.
Please know that you are not alone in this and there are many, many people pulling for you. And know there is, without a doubt, a better life ahead for you...just keep DBing. ((((HUGS))))
Thank you both for your reply. I know i am not alone with what I am going through and it helps that I can come here and talk.
The kids know what's going on. Their dad lives in a different home. We are, I think, both committed to minimising the disruption to their lives. In order to do this we need to be on an even keel when we are with them. if the first time we saw each other after the other night, then it would be awkward. I see a lot of similarities between my H and other spouses on this forum but the one difference I see is that I know he abandoned me, not the children. Dont get me wrong, in the six months preceding BD and the 6 months after he was a [censored] dad but as soon as he moved out he started to really prioritise them. He told me at the time it was because he realised what was important.
I know I shouldn't have, but I asked him if he was in a relationship with her. He said he didnt know. He'd seen only seen her 4 times. I assume this means about a month. I didnt ask about the sex. He came out with that on his own. Either not to hurt me or because he know i could file on grounds of adultery as he still officially lives on the house - he has not changed his address.
I had decided i would tell him i still loved him before i saw him. I can see where detaching is a positive and necessary thing, but it also gives the impression that we, the left behind, have given up on the marriage. I think its dishonest. I cant expect honesty if i am not being honest myself. So, i said it. I needed him to know the candle is still burning in the window. The initiating sex was pure weakness. I should have left once i had said my piece. But i kept talking because this was the closest we have been since this started. And that's when he came to hug me. An "I am still here for you when you're sad hug". I remembered how much i loved to be held by him. How safe he made me feel. And i crumbled. Has he alept with her. I dont know but i assume so. It doesnt matter. I know it is not about her. He is lonely and depressed and If it wasnt her it would be someone else.
On Sunday afternoons when he has the girls he normally takes the kids to his mums for Sunday dinner. He always asks if I want to go too. The last few times I've said no. I decided to go today. It was fine. We were normal. Like we were before bomb drop. We were nice to one another. Conversation was light. A stranger looking in would think we were a couple.
I am not saying this to indicate that telling him I still love him was a good idea or that he is changing his mind. It was just nice. The kids and i were even singing in the car when he drove me home.
When I left him after the talk this morning I apologised for initiating sex (I know, but I was weak). He said he knew and he was flattered. I told him he should be because i am stunning. He looked me in the eyes and said "Yes, you are". He never looks me in the eye unless he is angry (then it is rage I see) and he never ever acknowledges that i am attractive.
I think i wrote about throwing out all the photos of us when I got home Friday night. I also took down one of those large picture murals from a family photo shoot about 8 years ago. I tried to break it with a hammer but turns out resin is impossible to destroy. I managed to damage a corner of it. It wouldnt fit in the bin so i left it in the garage to take to the tip this week. He has taken it without mentioning anything. It has a chipped corner and in the center is a large photo of the two of us surrounded by smaller pictures of the kids. Why take it?
There were a couple if other things today that makes me think his heart is still here, home with us. i intend to continue GALing and detaching, but days like today give me the strength to keep standing. A fools hope maybe, but hope nonetheless.
I am not sleeping again. 4 hours last night, 2 the two nights previous and not at all kn Friday night - the night I found out about other woman. I have not really eaten kn that time. It ia starting again - not eating, not sleeping and obsessing over him. I cant stop crying.
So, right now, at nearly 4 in the morning I am losing hope. Tomorrow is a new day though amd I will try and pick myself up and carry on. I have made an appointment at the doctors to get sleeping pills - if I cant sleep I cant function and if I cant function I cant work and i need to work, both for the money and for the distraction. I am going to try and force myself to eat even if every mouthful makes me want to vomit. I dont know how to fix the obsessing. I know it is wrong but he is al i think about.
So, I am going to write.
He had the children last night and after school today. He was supposed to drop them off at netball and i would pick them up after. But I had booked an appointment at the doctors to get a prescription for sleeping pills after work and asked him bring the girls home. When i got home told him i was taking the morning off work as i had an appointment. quick moment of panic on his face and the. he asked what for, i calmly said i needed to get sleeping pills as have not been sleeping. I wasnt trying to make him feel guilty. I just dont want to lie and play games. I think he was relieved tbh - when i said an appointment in town he prob thought i meant solicitor.
There was at least a few triggers this evening which a year ago would normally lead to him huffing at ne, berating ne or storming off. But tonight he made an effort to keep it in check.
- D12 asked what had happened to the family photo collage. I said I had taken down as I no longer like it - Queue lecture on my lack of sentimentality but nothing.
- he asked me how the pre boxed food is going (where u pick recipes from a catalogue and the company sends you the ingredients for a single serving)on - Queue lecture on wasting money - but nothing. Minor interest and then switch to next topic.
- We discussed the cost of D12 school trip (email came today) - normally discussion on any shared costs leads to huffing and eye rolling - but nothing.
At least when he was emotional it showed he was vested. When he would lecture me on wasting money (which i hated because it was my money to waste) it was because he saw it as our money. When he called me cold, it was because he wanted me to care about the same things he cared about. Now - i am just another person in his life. I know i am being irrational. He too is consciously detaching. I detach to save myself from the pain. He detaches to save me from the pain. But it stil hurts. I dont think, short of saying he wanted to come home, that there ia anything he could do that wouldnt hurt me. Be nice - it hurts me, be mean - it hurts me.
Enough wallowing: to practical matters. I drafted the separation order the other night, I just need to put the spreadsheet together with the numbers. I am wavering on whether to send it to a solicitor so that we can start the process. On the one hand he is seeing someone else and on the other I dont want to do anything rash (and obviously, reading the above, not in the right frame of nind) and I committed to standing. Deep down i dont want to separate and i know i would be doing it in the hopes it shocks him into realizing what he is giving up,
Sorry to hear about your sleep issues. I had a night like that last night... i got maybe two hours but even those two hours were restless. It [censored]. And I hear you on the eating issues. Today was a better day for me in that regard as well.
I also relate to you wishing he would be angry instead of calm...as that might mean he cares more. I was worried about the same thing. Not sure if that is the case or not but if we are DBing the right way, I think the correct answer to that question would be... “who cares? It really doesn’t matter. Stop trying to mind read.”
Finding out about the OW is very hard and somewhat destabilizing so it makes sense that you would be feeling more emotional and desperate right now. The sooner you can get back to DBing, the better.
Re: the separation agreement. I don’t know what the right answer is but if it were me, I would not be going out of my way to help with it UNLESS I felt that it was necessary to protect myself financially or otherwise. If it is more his need than yours, I would let him do the work.
Anywat... that is what I would do. I’m sure some vets will be along to give you their more learned opinions. I hope you are able to get some sleep. Self care is very important right now. ((((hugs))))
