I guess this is piecing

[sandi2]

The IC said I have narcissistic tendancies and that W is a narcissist magnet. She saw her once and is not sure if she will see her again because of the expense. W says she was defending me in therapy and IC told her to stop. I see the same IC tomorrow we'll see how this goes... somehow I get the blame for everything. I definitely have things still to work on NGS being one of them.

Was all of that said about you, without the IC ever meeting you? Could be based on what your W has been telling the IC.

IC said its because I wasnt a good husband or father in the past and if I was we may be happy and wouldnt have these issues.

Was that her IC who made that statement? If her IC actually said that, then your W needs to change counselors. The IC sounds as if he is taking 100% responsibility for the MR off the shoulders of the W. The WW already blames everything on her H, without the IC serving his head on a platter.

The WW lifestyle W was leading never seems to be the issue to anyone else - therapy etc. I will talk about this tomorrow. W went on a date had a man try to sleep with her then invited me over for sex the next morning... I didnt know this at the time. That cant just be ok because were separated.

She's messed up.

Maybe you need to interview the IC. Perhaps your W is getting some of her notions from the therapist. IDK, Between seeing a MC, sex therapist, your IC and her IC...…..it's confusing to keep up.

[Did]

At this point IC / MC is the sex therapist. W was into seeing her because of her sexual issues. Then when they met she barely talked about them / the present and talked about past. Therapist is a dr in sex therapy and a family therapist. These are W words to me, not IC words. So obviously jaded. After meeting me the therapist has a very different opinion. When I told her some of the things W did like the date then sleeping with me the next day and sending the same half pic in underwear to me and another man therapist changed her tune. W does a good job of presenting herself of this great person... still fools me sometimes. Yes she is messed up. She knows it at this point.

On therapists- I have another spiritual mentor who is an intuitive energy person. She is basically for my self esteem, personal growth and spirituality. I also use a separate IC who is a family therapist I see as needed.

Boudaries talk tomorrow 1pm marriage counseling - sex therapist. This woman is highly accoladed (yoursexdoc.com). I like her so far and know another couple she has been great for.

Points for MC tomorrow:

W has recognized she has issues and this is the first step to fixing those issues. I understand she needs time and space to fix these issues. It is going to take time for W to heal and us to heal R. No promises or expectations but need boundaries and structure. We operate based on on our subconscious mind if we don't have a schedule / boundaries / a plan.
First step is being aware of subconscious mind (inner child). My subconscious tells me I dont deserve to be happy or loved because I was not as a child. I am aware of it and have taken steps to change... W notices with my positive energy.
W subconscious tells her she does not deserve love / happiness / low self worth because of childhood - abusive mother. W seems to completely operate on subconscious or as she calls it- intuition. Makes her want men that are unavailable, that have issues and will lead to her not being loved and happy. Example - when her conscious mind is in control - Im happy with H and D4 I want to be romanced. Then something happens in life - parents visit and subconscious mind reacts - Im in a bad place I push you away and am unsure if I want the things that actually make me happy.

I will say these things briefly and let MC / W respond.

Boundaries: No sleeping with or dating other partners. No sexual talk with other partners. No sharing our personal sex life / emotions with others outside of MC. Therapy for each of us.
Text minimally for things like schedule / D4, phone calls for anything important or emotional.

Friends / Fam know we are seeing each other (unsure about this one) - dont want to seem controlling according to W MC said this is a control issue?

Structure: Date at least 1x per week, can be dinner, or just lunch / coffee, meet at park. No more than 1 night in a row sleep over. Balance of family time, dating, sex. Babysitter. Have things to look forward to - visit fam with D4 and a night at a hotel etc (this could happen Saturday with my parents available / wanting to have D4)

Sex- fun, healthy to be open to talking about what we like, desires etc. How to have a healthy sex life in our sitch?

If we don't have a plan our subconscious takes over- as if we are together lot of sex, family time (what's easy). Prioritize a plan.

Ideally W does not ask for space but instead wants more time together because of schedule and making time apart a priority as much as time together.

Goals: Each of us improve and get healthier & happier individually. Read/ Therapy work on ourselves. Build trust, improve communication, consistency, have fun (not just in bed), be happy individually and together, work on consistency. Limited to no talk about R outside of MC.

[Did]

Im thinking about this too much. Its controlling. And its been keeping me up at night...

Yesterday W was at my house with D4 as I worked until 630pm. They had picked up dinner for us. W asked about me having wine. Said she would of stayed over if it wasnt for dog being home alone all day. She mentioned she'd like to hang out by the fire... I had gotten firewood.

So I invited her over tonight. Probably a mistake... she said she was trying to be be productive but was frustrated. She can't really be produtive because she has no job. And cant retake her soil scientist test for some amount of time. She said she was going to read the book MC had recommended for a while then ponder.

I want to have fun and be happy together. Tired of trying to spend time together. She said all these great things about me last week. It doesnt make sense but I guess shes just messed up / all over the place and I shouldnt focus on her so much.

When I have d4 half the time and work 2-3 nights per week it doesnt leave much time for GAL.

[SteveLW]

Did, I would focus on you, what the IC says you should do, and just self improvement.

Also, stop making excuses:

"When I have d4 half the time and work 2-3 nights per week it doesnt leave much time for GAL."

Excuse.

[Did]

Been losing sleep over my sitch. Heading to mC shortly. Could use some support

[SteveLW]

Been losing sleep over my sitch. Heading to mC shortly. Could use some support

That is rough. Been there. The lack of sleep is the worst.

All I can say is that those that struggle the worst are those that do GAL the worst. Stay busy.

[neffer]

Try some meditation. As Steve says, focus on yourself. Possitive attitude. Use your time, release the pressure.
You are in a good place Did. Avoid mind games.

Be strong.

[AnotherStander]

Been losing sleep over my sitch. Heading to mC shortly. Could use some support

Did, in reading your previous post it seems clear that your W has some very serious mental health issues. This in particular:

W subconscious tells her she does not deserve love / happiness / low self worth because of childhood - abusive mother. W seems to completely operate on subconscious or as she calls it- intuition. Makes her want men that are unavailable, that have issues and will lead to her not being loved and happy. Example - when her conscious mind is in control - Im happy with H and D4 I want to be romanced. Then something happens in life - parents visit and subconscious mind reacts - Im in a bad place I push you away and am unsure if I want the things that actually make me happy.

I think what you should take away from this is she has a lot of work to do, and it doesn't involve changes that you need to make (other than listening and validating). It's going to take time, so you need to be patient! I sense that you just want everything to go back to "normal" but that's not going to happen. Instead, you are in the process of establishing a "new normal" and that may not be sorted out for months because of the issues your W is going through with IC.

Structure: Date at least 1x per week, can be dinner, or just lunch / coffee, meet at park. No more than 1 night in a row sleep over. Balance of family time, dating, sex. Babysitter. Have things to look forward to - visit fam with D4 and a night at a hotel etc (this could happen Saturday with my parents available / wanting to have D4)

That sounds like a reasonable plan. Remember you've still got to give your W plenty of time and space so don't get too upset about not seeing much of her.

Goals: Each of us improve and get healthier & happier individually. Read/ Therapy work on ourselves. Build trust, improve communication, consistency, have fun (not just in bed), be happy individually and together, work on consistency. Limited to no talk about R outside of MC.

That all sounds good, maybe you should write this down/ print it out for reference to remind yourself what your goals are and to keep your eyes in that direction. But most of all- patience, patience, patience!

[Did]

From phones sorry for typos. Thanks Steve, Nef and AS. I had MC earlier today. I had written my boundaries etc in my journal. I talked about subconscious a bit how W childhood and low self worth didn’t allow her to be happy. Going for bad guys all the sexual destructive stuff. MC didn’t disagree but said there were levels and we had to start at the surface / base. Friendship, respect. W crying as she does in therapy. I feel bad.

You’re right about patience and that I have to get used to a new normal. MC recommended 1 date every week w said too much and got wild anxious anxious look in eyes so then it became every 2 weeks. One of my main goals was to have another MC session. We have 1 scheduled for Nov 1. MC said I may need to set boundaries on time. But she said to expect at least 6-8 months. We are supposed to date as friends first. No talking about R outside of MC for now. No texting about anything important. All things I wanted that MC said without me saying them first. I didn’t want to control the session. She said W has to work on forgiveness a lot. I have to not text basically don’t push her away. I’m in the best shale of my life so I’ll probably hit the gym. Been doing yoga.

I feel like I may lose my feelings for her with all this time. After being together now no contact and no sex. I know it may be all for financial support and I may bring that up next session. I mentioned in My Ic appt with MC. Also may mention w needs to work. Idk if we D she gets support anyway. MC also mentioned that in my previous IC appt.

We slept together over two different two day periods and had sex like 8-10 times. Now we’re supposed to be friends. I mentioned how sexual W was last week and that I liked that side of her. And that I’m very sexual. MC said masturbating for a while Wont kill you. Kinda funny. Kinda wish we could do this and still Ben intimate.

I’m going to Be a man she’d be a a fool to leave and probably just not going to talk to her For the most part. I drove us to MC and did some work on comp at w house after picking up d4. Listened to her talk responded kindly but just didn’t my own thing. In MC i asked her what my main goal was or what was most important to me and w said us being married and together I said no each of us being happy and healthy individually. At her house she rubbed my head and neck for a bit I kissed her neck goodbye. But didn’t say anything. No contact since.

I want W back but she does need time to improve her mental health. She doesn’t have anything except d4... and my support I guess. W saw she wasn’t being healthy was depressed and all the things AS mentioned above. She was making bad decisions. I’m glad we’re in therapy. She says she only really wants To have sex when she’s ovulating. Which is like a week after her period. Understand the hormones but she’s A mess only operating off emotion. She admitted she had been lying to me the whole separation. Said because I was doing things that made her uncomfortable like getting her valentine day gift when I was dating someone else. After MC I asked if I can trust her. I guess I’ll give her the benefit of the doubt for now.

It’s a weird feeling. Really nothing I can do for sitch. Idk what to do I guess be patient And work on myself is all I can do. I go to Hawaii next week for 5 days which couldn’t be better timing. . Had a great tryout with 60 kids for a lacrosse team tonight. Trying to keep my head up and focus on everything’s besides w. We both like MC and I guess we will try to do it the healthy way after doing everything wrong for 16 months.

[ovrrnbw]

We slept together over two different two day periods and had sex like 8-10 times. Now we’re supposed to be friends. I mentioned how sexual W was last week and that I liked that side of her. And that I’m very sexual. MC said masturbating for a while Wont kill you. Kinda funny. Kinda wish we could do this and still Ben intimate.

That's about the [censored] $h!+ I've heard in a while. Who said it would kill you? You made a very valid point that your W was just "more than friends" and the whole "take it slow" thing gets thrown out the window when it's convenient for her. She should be accommodating you as much (or close to as much) as you accommodate her. But she doesn't so you feel like this is BS. And you should.

W said us being married and together

So why don't her actions match up to this? Put your money where your mouth is sister!

She admitted she had been lying to me the whole separation

Two lines later:

I guess I’ll give her the benefit of the doubt for now

She's lying, but you'll trust her? It probably sounds a little different now, but that's ok. I say things out loud to someone, and then I'm like "OK, WTH did I just say?". We all do it.

I think you GAL, and keep it real with your W and MC. Don't let them skate on BS like I pointed out. Don't be afraid to be honest. You don't have to mention every little thing that comes to mind, but kill the NGS. Keep working on it! Getting rid of NGS is a process for you and me both!