Thank you DJV. I meant to reply on your sitch yesterday but time differences made it difficult. I am glad things look brighter. Again, vets here will give more meaningful advice but if it were me (and god how i wish it were) . I would let him initiate the conversations (it looks like he may be ready), listen to what he says, but at the same time proceed with caution. You want him back, that much is obvious, but you should do it on your terms. Know what you want and you havent been on your own long enough to do that (my opinion only). Build a friendship, talk, reconnect. Then, and only then think about letting him back into your life properly.
I worry about this detachment thing a lot, because from the outside it looks like I've given up on us and am merrily building a life without him. I know it was, and will help me heal, but it always felt (feels) like i am pushing him away. In of his issues with me is that i am emotional detached. He said i didnt feel anything. So, to him, my pulling away could be seen as more of the same.
My father passed away a few weeks ago. I am not in touch with my family and heard through the grapevine on the same day as our 14th wedding anniversary. My kids were away with my inlaws, i hadnt heard from my H in over a week (no reason to contact me as kids were away) and i was on my own. So, i got in a bus and travelled to the other side of the country, booked a B&b and did lots of waking. I finally told him in Sunday (that was the reason for the hug) but he said a) why didnt i tell him and b) you bottle all your emotions up.
I didnt tell him because i was Dbing. I didnt tell him because when i was on the verge of a breakdown after he left (he literally left me crying on the side of the road) and he didnt care. I didnt tell him because he would turn it against me and i wanted to grieve without it being polluted.
Anyway, I digress. I just wanted to explain that detaching could be seen by him as more of the same and seeing me getting on with my life just gave him permission to see someone else. Deep down I know this thinking is futile. He would havr started seeing people anyway but the thought still niggles at the back, sometimes the front, of my mind. I am going to get back on the Db horse anyway because at least its a plan.
Re the separation agreement. You are riget. I dont want to separate so will file it away until such a time as he brings it up again. At least I know what I want if we do go down that road and I am prepared. Oh, and yes - or current arrangement is better for him financially. He pays bills. I pay everything else. If we went down the formal route he would have to cough up proper maintenance (prob same as bills) and 50% of the children related costs (which is nearly the same as maintenance. I am not seeking spousal support as we earn the same but I think he is afraid I will ask as I have grounds but it would prolong the process and just make it more difficult to be good parents to our kids.
He has asked to pick up the kids after school today (we have a nanny) and wants to come round to walk the dog this evening. So, things appear to be back to normal. Just two people co-parenting. I hate this. I hate that I have to pretend that I like this normal. I hate not being able to reach out to him and tell him that under the smile I am falling apart.
When we hugged the other day I felt at home, safe, loved. I know he did it to comfort me and that for him it probably felt false. That is the way i feel every day when I smile and say "my days been good thanks, how was yours".
I worry about this detachment thing a lot, because from the outside it looks like I've given up on us and am merrily building a life without him. I know it was, and will help me heal, but it always felt (feels) like i am pushing him away. In of his issues with me is that i am emotional detached. He said i didnt feel anything. So, to him, my pulling away could be seen as more of the same.
Anyway, I digress. I just wanted to explain that detaching could be seen by him as more of the same and seeing me getting on with my life just gave him permission to see someone else. Deep down I know this thinking is futile. He would havr started seeing people anyway but the thought still niggles at the back, sometimes the front, of my mind. I am going to get back on the Db horse anyway because at least its a plan.
This describes me exactly. It’s a daily worry. Before H moved out, he told me that he saw that I was moving on, and he didn’t blame me. I explained that I didn’t like the person I was becoming, and I am getting on with my life and discovering myself, and I would do so either with or without him in my life, but I hoped it was with him. I told him I thought that 2 people needed to be happy within themselves to work on a happy marriage.
Yesterday when I messaged him I was curious he didn’t ask about the kids, he told me I wasn’t exactly communicative, and I have been very icy since he moved out. He of course put blame immediately on me, and got defensive likes he usually does. I told him I’m not trying to be icy, just giving him his space and was available to talk at any time. Later in the day he said he understood I was giving him space.
So, the more I detach, I feel I give him more reason to move on. I would be grateful for feedback from the vets out there on how screwed up this thinking probably is.
I think I read somewhere on here that detachment is a process and we need to trust the process. I am trying to trust it, but I think we all find it hard. I think you handled it correctly by telling him you are giving him space, but you are available to talk if he wants to. The process is as much for us as them. I can testify, well until recently, that detaching was helping me to heal. I was able to watch my H get in the car with the kids to take them away for the night and not feel the tears welling up. I was starting to smile and laugh again. I was spending time on me and liking what I was (am) becoming. So, I don't know if it will help us to reconcile, but it was helping me move to acceptance. Although, the set back of finding out he is dating has thrown me right back to the early stages. I think I am back to grieving, with a pinch of bargaining (Ok more than a pinch - I told him I loved him and then threw myself at him).
The anger is gone, although I do not know if I ever went through anger. There were moments (him telling me he was going out NY eve two nights before, destroying all our photos the other night) but these are momentary and not typical of my experience.
It has also helped my H and I to at least function as parents to our girls. Cashier friendly (i.e. polite, but not emotionally invested in the conversation), even when it is forced, means that we do not get into tit for tats and do not delve into each others lives.
So, quick update.
He came to pick up D12 to take her out for the afternoon. Whilst he was here, he said he was talking to the builder (we are having some work done in the garden) and asked what type of stone I wanted. I said I didn't want to keep the costs down as we might not be here next year. This turned into a conversation about the house (he doesn't want to sell), which turned into a conversation about the separation order (he wants this), which turned into a conversation about a divorce (he doesn't want one).
Back to the detachment rules. Maybe they are onto something. If I hadn''t pursued (bared my soul), then maybe we wouldn't have had the D conversation. ILU = Pressure => I need to get away.
The conversation was very calm. No raised voices. Practical. Our nanny arrived and we stopped. He acted like nothing had happened, as if we had just been talking about the weather. He asked me if I wanted to join him and D12 for the afternoon. All whilst tears were forming in my eyes and the tightness in my chest was rising. I said "no, I don't think that's a good idea".
Some weird things about the conversation. Could be projecting but sounds like he doesn't really want things to change.
1. He didn't want me to sell the house. Redemption fees (he said 50 thousand, I know it's 12). Property values will go up quicker where the house is then anywhere else around here. You won't get anywhere around here. Unfair to move the girls further out of town. He wants to rent it out and then we rent separate places. He even suggested he move in and I move out and he will pay the mortgage.
2. I said I would take the bills and he can pay me set maintenance instead. He wants to keep the bills and pay 100% of our youngest school fees. He will not transfer the bills to my name and he will not officially move out. Something about credit rating going down as he will be living in a flat. When he left it was I don't want to change them all now only to change them again when I move back.
3. He does not want to get a D. He wants to wait the two years. I even said he could file on unreasonable and I would sign. He said don't be ridiculous.
H and D12 are back again. Sitting on the sofa watching one of D12's programmes together. It is Once Upon A Time - something he never would have done before. He would have told her to switch it to something he liked instead. Now, he cuddles her on the sofa and pretends to be interested.
I am supposed to be working from home today, but after the D conversation I sent a text asking for the day off. I mentioned this to H as I was in the middle of texting when he walked past. He said "Have you got the sleeping pills". I said yes, I am not thinking straight, that my brain was in a fog and that I need to sleep. That was my way of trying to say, I was too emotional and tired to have the conversation and maybe we took it a step too far, but he simply said "Ok, well make sure you take them" and then cheerfully left with D12.
Anyway, a long update.
I guess, I just wait until the next move. No R conversations, no talking about how sad I am. Concentrate on me and GAL as much as I can (even if I have to force myself).
That sounds like a really difficult conversation FS but perhaps a good glimpse into his mindset. I think him not wanting a divorce right away is hopeful. I think when people are really determined with no doubts, they want to get it over with ASAP so they don’t have to deal with the LBS’ emotions and the drama - especially if there is an OW involved. They want to move on as quickly as possible. So...a bit of a setback on the DBing but it is understandable. You can recover and get back on the horse. Interesting that he is so attractive to your D now. My H is the same way. He has put in minimal time with our kids for the last three years but lately is wanting to spend more time with them. Same as your H... he sat on the couch with our kids and watched what they wanted to watch instead of getting on his phone and scrolling through videos, etc... I look at him doing this and I think...WTF...why weren’t you doing that before?
After BD I did all the usual things that all of us on here probably did. I begged and pleaded, promised to change (be more affectionate, take an interest in him) and initiated intimacy. I made him do MC (we lasted 3 sessions). This went on for 3 - 6 months (before he moved out). Everything only pushed him further away. And I obsessed, and couldn't sleep, and lost weight, and became a shell of a person.
When this started he was angry and unhappy. He did not know why. And as I pushed him for an answer, as I begged and pleaded with him to work on our R, that anger and unhappiness began to take a physical shape, and that shape was me.
It took me another six months to start to get myself back. I was healthy again, I was smiling and laughing. The world seemed more vivid. And I was OK. I read everything I could on MLC and it was all pointing to patience, not applying pressure and as long as I kept a small candle in the back of my mind, he would come back. I was OK because I was getting on with my life with the small grain of hope that he would come back.
Today is a new day. There is only a sliver of hope left. I know it is a marathon and not a sprint. But we crossed another line over the last few days and I have already drawn and crossed so many lines in the sand. So, I am going to get my kids ready for school and myself for work. I am going to the gym at lunch and after work. I might go see a movie.
My H is coming to take them to school this morning and is dropping me off at the train station as I am going to go out for dinner tonight and will probably not be able to drive home from the station. Note: I asked yesterday, and he happily agreed to babysit tonight as I am going to meet a friend for dinner (I am not - and I don't know why I told him I was).
What I am looking for - comfort from someone, anyone, that I have the strength to carry on.
DJV - Yes - the taking so much interest in the kids leaves me with mixed feelings. Moving out made him miss the kids and he knows that he can't take them for granted. I can't fault him for that, as much as it kills me to watch him be the father I always wanted him to be.
What I am looking for - comfort from someone, anyone, that I have the strength to carry on.
LBS as well as WAS are probably doing this. I find comfort in friends, my church, and activities. THIS is what gives me the strength to carry on. Filling my days has been so important. When I feel blue, I call a friend. And most of my days are pretty good. I am adamant about not looking towards another man for comfort. Clouds things, I would imagine, and besides, I AM a married woman. Wonder if my H sees it that way? We agreed to no dating, but I don't know his strength in this area.
Things i find comfort in - work (I am good at it and am valued by my team), yoga and meditation (I have spent a year working on my emotional and physical well being and it is starting ok show), my children and learning to be more present with them, art (a form of therapy, and again, i am pretty good at it) and time with the small friendship group I've acquired in the last six months. Women who make me laugh and make me cry. Over the last few days I've tried these things and he still invades my thoughts stopping me from being present and just enjoying things.
So, this evening, instead of meeting friends as I had told H i would be doing this evening, i booked a session with a therapist. Although, I am not the crying mess I was after BD i recognise that the obsession, the lack of sleep and the not eating is probably a cause for concern. I will say that, even though finding out he is dating is a shock, I am stronger than I was when he dropped he bomb a year ago. Then I blamed myself for everything and was desperate to fix our marriage. I made myself I’ll trying to fix it and only pushed him further away. I wish I had found this forum sooner. This time, I know that I am not to blame for our MR falling apart and I can’t fix it. I can only fix me.
The therapist said I need to think about the things that I am allowing him to do that continue to hurt me and ask myself truthfully to say why I let him do those things. So, I will try and list them out below:
1. Watching him lavish affection on our children and our dog in our home - although this is a positive change in him it hurts me to watch it. I let him act this way because I hope it will trigger something that says our family life is worth fighting for.
2. Letting him come and go from the family home at will - although it is not his home anymore i dont want him to stop feeling like it is. It is a connection with us that i dont want him to lose.
3. Letting him act as if we are friends (lifts to the station, pleasantries, being accommodating of my wishes) when it hurts me to see him act as if he isnt hurting too - because i am too scared that saying something will push him away more and return to the coldness, where the anger was only ever a hairs breath away.
There - I've listed them. She said it is enough for know to be aware of these things and why I do them. Next week we will set boundaries so that I can start to heal.
Other GAL activities - I went to the gym. I laughed at work. I made sure i looked [censored] good when my husband picked me up to drive me to the station this morning.
Side note - why do I need him to see me looking good? Because it will do him hood to see what he is throwing away.
Just got in from my pretend dinner (where I actually when to see a therapist). H was just finishing putting the girls to bed and when he came out i thanked him for watching the girls for me and walked him straight to the door. He asked me how my night was ("it was nice thanks") but didnt pry any further. He then said he'd be around Friday to take my car to the garage as he had booked an appointment to have it serviced. He remembered it was due when he was cleaning it today.
Firstly, go me for being all casual and ok (on the outside) with the situation. And secondly ... WTF .,, you abandoned me, are seeing other women (possibly starting a relationship with one) but u think its ok to clean my car and book it in to be serviced. He also said he might come round tomorrow and spend some time with the girls of he finishes work early,
I really need to sort those boundaries but im afraid of how he will react. I read on another thread that we dont set boundaries because we fear they'll react and the D conversation will come up again. I think, for me, that's prob true. But we are pretty much D'd already so I am no worse off, right. My brain gets it. My heart, not sl much.
On the Friday thing - he told me he was fostered Friday and couldnt see the girls. When he mentioned picking up my car Friday i said "thought u were working" he ummed for a bit, looked confused and then said, oh, I probably got that wrong because Im going out Friday night. I assume with her.
Another post ... I think i need to get all these thoughts out and I don't want to burden my friends with it. Plus, it has been going on for so long that i sense people feeling I should just be getting over it now. My MIL is kind and listens, but she often tells him whats going on in my head, and that is not always helpful.
I think I mentioned I meditate. I normally try and find guided mediation for letting go of emotions. I have even done meditation on reattaching to your soulmate. Letting go of lost loves. I read the comments and most of these said things like "this really helped me to forget", "I got through the day without thinking about him/her". I couldn't do it because I don't want to let go. If I let go, then our MR is over, right?
God, this standing thing is difficult. How do you let go, and still stand?
Another restless night. I managed 2 hours without sleeping aid, then awake, playing back every interaction my H and I have had over the past week. I eventually gave up trying to sleep on my own and took a tablet. That lasted 3 hours of solid sleep followed by 2 hours of awake, asleep, awake.
I had texted the nanny to say I would be 15 min late last night. She was ok with this. Straight after, I got a text from H asking if he could come visit the girls.
H: Can I come by and see the girls at 8. M: sure.. The girls will lile that. I prob won't be there as running late H: oh, ok. Do you want me to come earlier. I can take over from [the nanny] M: If you want. [The nanny] knows I'm late. H: <<thumbs up emoji>>
Is this pursuing. If I were truly detached I would have just said no. Is he cake eating. Having his single life, and then also coming round here and getting his family life fix?
I timed it so I would get home about ten minutes after him. I even left my car at the station so he thinks I've been out for drinks after work. In actuality, i was just held up at work. PS - I know that sounds more like game playing then detaching, But it doesn't hurt him to think this.
He was sitting on the cuddled up on the sofa watching cartoons with D8 and NOT scrolling through his phone when I came in (if you knew H before you would be screaming WTF). I offered to make him a coffee or tea. I think this is politeness not pursuing. I then sat on the opposite sofa with my D12 and started scrolling through mSopy phone. This is a complete reversal for us. Before BD I could never find my phone (it was always in another room or at the bottom of my bag) and his was permanently attached to his arm.
He initiated small talk. Mostly nothing. I was polite, but disengaged. He then said as I am home today (friday) he won't take my car to the garage and then proceeded to tell me in minute detail how to get there, where I should sit and wait etc. . I said "Ok, thanks" looking down at my phone the whole time (this is what he use to do to me). I then said as he was here with the girls, I might go tidy up my bedroom. About 15 mins later he came up and said he was leaving and asked if he could pick up the girls and take them to school this morning. I said "Ok, and you can give me a lift as I left my car at the station" (my imaginary drinks meant I couldn't drive home).
I think I am detaching but I am not setting boundaries. I do not know if he sees the changes or sense the detachment. Maybe they are too subtle.
I have not brought up D or R.
GAL activities: I am going to have breakfast with some girlfriends and then go to the library where one of them has a snall exhibition of art work.
