I guess this is piecing

[Did]

Thanks Sandi. Yes W is lacking in many areas. Like purpose, work, anything in her life that gives her a sense of purpose. She loved how much she got out of her one IC appt the other day but seems to be unsure about seeing her again. It seems the IC is helping W with how she thinks and what shes attracted to (this includes me, or the old me at least). The hormones thing youre quite right on. She talks about her sexual needs relating to her cycle. IMO she has been out of balance since she had our daughter.

Your lighthouse's dont follow comment is a great one. Im going to be the lighthouse, Im not following her around. Im not doing more stuff for her or giving her more unless she starts giving, desiring, pursuing me.

The IC said I have narcissistic tendancies and that W is a narcissist magnet. She saw her once and is not sure if she will see her again because of the expense. W says she was defending me in therapy and IC told her to stop. I see the same IC tomorrow we'll see how this goes... somehow I get the blame for everything. I definitely have things still to work on NGS being one of them.

I am going to stop pursuit or trying to date her etc. Why do I want to date someone who is so unstable. I dont know why but I do, badly. I guess attachment. Maybe love... I think about our family together a lot, holidays, activities and think of W sexually a lot.

I know we both need to be happy on our own and stable to have a good relationship. Maybe I am sometimes or most of the time. I definitely feel worse when around W and pursuing or having expectations No expectations... When she opens up and is herself we get along and thats the W I love. But that is rare. She says its her intuition or anxiety.... IC said its because I wasnt a good husband or father in the past and if I was we may be happy and wouldnt have these issues.

I just need to get it through my head. W is not mentally healthy. Shes not healthy in her sexual desires. She knows it, she said she cant even think about sex because she thinks about things that make her feel bad. I think this is due to relationship with OM2. But wife thinks that she wants to be with a man while her partner watches and after sex even when climaxing multiple times she says she wants another man. She has admitted she has toxic issues. IC recommeded books like the 6 pillars of self esteem and codependant no more. The WW lifestyle W was leading never seems to be the issue to anyone else - therapy etc. I will talk about this tomorrow. W went on a date had a man try to sleep with her then invited me over for sex the next morning... I didnt know this at the time. That cant just be ok because were separated.

I must be a better man. Set stronger boundaries. Focus on my own personal development. Let her go, stop caring if she Fs someone else after we have slept together and had discussions like what are we going to do for housing- both thinking we were going to live together. Then the next day she is on a completely different page.

She says shes not going to be with anyone. I must focus on myself, work and D4, care about her less, be less available. I know whats healthy and attractive its just being mentally tough and fighting my subconscious to be the strong man I know I can be.

She did say she cut off OM2. She also said she has already done that a few times and was talking to a girlfriend for help to not talk to him. That really hit home. She loves this OM who is sick, unhealthy and unavailable. She thinks he is a good guy but she knows he is mentally ill. Honestly she doesnt deserve me. She has only used me when she needed someone.

I need to be more mentally tough and be happy with the other areas of my life. I want my wife back and a happy romantic loving relationship. But she needs to work for that too. She is at least working on herself... Patience.

[lost8]

Did,

Hard to keep up on all the sitches here but saw your response somewhere else and the similarity in our stories. My BD was in May and she has been with OM off and on mostly on since then. I filed, withdrew and basically have in house sep, so we see each other daily. We had a period of 5 or 6 weeks where a quasi R was going on but it was more of a drunken sex fest mid summer that I had a hard time turning down. In July/Aug I decided to put an end to that because I could not detach and set up my own room since mid Aug and am still there.

She has not ended A and will at 2-3 days at a time turn her attention to me and we end up spending a lot of time together including the sex. I know we live in the moment and it is hard but it is usually just hours later that your brain comes to and realizes that this was just a Plan B option.

I was considering setting that boundary about no more sex, but know that would be hard and she knows my weakness.
Just curious if you ever thought of that? I sometimes feel like it is needed to keep bonding as long as you can keep the emotions out of it, but it is hard, very hard, although I have gotten better at it.

My last question is can we ever truely move on and detach if we are still engaging in sex? I do admit it is nothing but physical for me and have done my best to block out any emotions connected to it but there always seems to be something there and as long as it is will make my sitch difficult.

[Did]

lost I have been separated for about 16 months. We didnt have sex until 3 weeks ago. So this is new for me the sex part. We have both been with other parties. My W says shes not having sex with anyone or dating so thats a big difference in our sitch. She is inconsistent to say the least. Man the sex was good for me. So for me - no I dont think you can detach and have sex they are basically the opposite in my opinion. Youre coming together during sex youre inside her. Detaching would not be doing that... youre at least making it a lot harder. In my sitch my W is saying I love you and yelling my name asking me to play with toys all this stuff that is drawing me in. Then she withdraws and pulls away, needs space etc. Now after seeing IC she doesnt want to talk about anything sexual until she reads books IC recommended.... I just want to date and take it slow... sex is great but the I love yous and her talking about what were going to do in regard to housing- living together in the future is a little much.

So I had IC today with sex therapist. It went well, Ive done a lot of therapy so I spoke about all my issues. I know I have them. Im working on them and Im much better than I was when married but still a ways to go.

W had said she would do a couples session when she was in IC. So we are doing that Tues. I am hoping we can agree to set some boundaries, date, hook up, but not spend 2 days ago. I will come into IC with some basic boundaries. No future relationship talk- housing etc unless W is ready to be consistent and live together.

Boundaries: No sleeping with or dating other partners. No sexual talk with other partners. Date at least 1x per week, even lunch or coffee. Build trust, work on communication, have fun, be happy individually and together, work on consistency. Limited to no talk about R outside of MC for now.

Basically W needs to make a decision. She has said all this stuff: Im the best man she knows, a great dad, hotter than anyone, the sex was great, my energy is so different, Ive changed so much its so impressive etc etc etc. But then she jumps away after the good times together. It makes no sense to me- I know she is a mess. With this appt coming up there is the chance W will say she doesnt want to work on the R and wants to divorce. Its been 16 months. If thats the case then so be it. I go LRT / black / only talk about D4 if that is her choice. She can set up the divorce, support ends... maybe just pay rent since my name is on the lease.

She is attracted to guys that arent available. She says she cant think about or have sex because she thinks of "bad things". Like multiple partners etc. I dont think fantasizing about this stuff is bad. I think OM2 was controlling and put these ideas in her head. You can embrace your dark side. IC says many men are turned on by this. Doing it, I dont think I would. But I can talk about it.

Anyway, I plan on minimal contact until Tues appt. IC says that attraction will never last long term- unavailable.

Im pretty nervous / anxious but going to put my confident happy face on. I go to W place to pick up D4 after my appt.

I have limited time here but am heading to see my spiritual mentor in a few minutes.

Thanks for the support & opinions

[AnotherStander]

Good, sounds like you are handling things well Did! Take your time, after all this time there's certainly no hurry! Congrats on the progress!

[Loves77]

She literally just told you about the other man like what, 5 min ago. And you mentioned that she had said she would be with him if she could. Did I misunderstand that?

I ask this bc you make it seem like you do not understand why she is so up and down. This shouldn't be that hard. This woman is very clearly torn between two different life's. She admitted feelings for another man. And you wonder why she is torn.

I feel like she is giving you the answers and you pick and choose what you want to hear. I'd bet a months pay that there is so much more that us readers do not get to read. We are only hearing your side.

I'm not siding with her but I feel like you make this so much harder on yourself.

Can't you see that if you would back off that she'd come running? We all do but you don't. You'd rather talk to her everyday about her feelings and then tell us that you are going to detach only to then run back to her.

Dang.

[ovrrnbw]

I sometimes feel like it is needed to keep bonding as long as you can keep the emotions out of it, but it is hard, very hard, although I have gotten better at it.

Ok I agreed with everything until this part. What exactly is bonding if it isn't an emotional connection? If emotions aren't in it, you aren't bonding IMO.

[quote=lost8}
My last question is can we ever truely move on and detach if we are still engaging in sex? I do admit it is nothing but physical for me and have done my best to block out any emotions connected to it but there always seems to be something there and as long as it is will make my sitch difficult.[/quote]

Probably not. How can you have unemotional sex with your wife in the middle of the most emotional time of your life? Sex releases bonding hormones. That said, if the WAS isn't wayward, I think it sex is great. If the WAS is wayward, just what in the hell are you doing??? (Disclaimer: read my sitch, I have done this and speak from experience).

[lost8]

Dunno my statement was contradictory I guess. W instigates and many opinions were better me than OM. I get it prob not best idea but I have to be honest I am being pulled further and further away each time almost like it is taking my brain repetitive blows to get it that she is in the fog and it’s just physical. Unlike Charlie Brown and Lucy with the football I really feel like I am learning....what the outcome will be the next day, sober. When I get past this and I will I will be able to drop the rope.

[neffer]

Did, IMHO I think you are doing the things right. It takes time, you know that. Have patience, boundaries set, eyes open and expectations stored in the refrigerator (not in the freezer).

Be strong Did

[Did]

Nef and AS - Thanks your support as vets who have been here longer than me means a lot.

Loves- I knew about OM2 for a long time. I just did not know the weirdness of their relationship until recently. W and I talked about it. She said that if they actually spent time together she would probably have not been so into him. But since he was unavailable she couldnt stop thinking about him. I think this goes back to childhood issues with abandonment and issues with her mom.
Yes I know she is torn between two lives and was thinking of OM2 for a long time. She also still is torn between seeing me as I am and the pain she felt by who I was.

W texts me hope you guys sleep well. When picking up D4 she asked how I was doing. I told her I was feeling really good, she said give the positive energy to D4. Act like Im invisible (issue / red flag - she is in a bad place), I joked that would be your super power if you were a super hero huh? She said she wanted to be off the clock, and wanted to have a drink but wasnt going to. (drunk driving accident a week ago - umm red flag) Id love to split a bottle of red like we used to but obviously didnt say that.

The comment of give D4 attention and act like I'm not here used to really get to me a year ago. So thats a solid 180. It still bothers me but I understand I cant fix / save / heal her.

My IC said that the sexual stuff she is into is a way of destroying yourself. She said she knows from experience and made a lot of mistakes in her past. That W self worth is so low and that is why she is fantasizing about these things because she thinks it will stop the pain.

MC says she thinks the books- 6 pillars of self esteem and codependent no more will really help W. I really hope so. I was surprised MC didnt really come down on me about my issues since I basically called myself a selfish [censored] in the MR she laughed and said she appreciated my honesty.

Yes I need to continue to back off and have. When she talks about dating, future housing together, and sexual things last weekend then 180s it throws me off a bit. No excuses play like a champion.

I plan on minimal contact until Tues MC. Only responding shortly but politely if / when she reaches out. She is coming to pick up D4 in the AM because I have to coach tomorrow.

Notes to myself for boundaries talk next week at MC... not sure if I will have this talk depending how things go. My main goal with MC is to get another session. Going to write some of the below down after getting your feedback.

No future relationship talk- housing etc unless W is consistent and we are ready to live together. Otherwise its just a passing thought and we see how it goes.

Understand this is going to take time for W to heal and us to heal R. No promises or expectations but need boundaries and structure.

Boundaries: No sleeping with or dating other partners. No sexual talk with other partners. No sharing our personal sex life / emotions with others outside of MC. Therapy for each of us.
Text minimally for things like schedule / D4, phone calls for anything important or emotional.

Friends / Fam know we are seeing each other (unsure about this one) - dont want to seem controlling according to W MC said this is a control issue?

Structure: Date at least 1x per week, can be dinner, or just lunch / coffee, meet at park. No more than 1 night in a row sleep over. Balance of family time, dating, sex. Babysitter. Have things to look forward to - visit fam with D4 and a night at a hotel etc.
If we don't have a plan our subconscious takes over- as if we are together lot of sex, family time (what's easy).
Ideally W does not ask for space but instead wants more.

Goals: Each of us improve and get healthier & happier individually. Read/ Therapy work on ourselves. Build trust, improve communication, consistency, have fun (not just in bed), be happy individually and together, work on consistency. Limited to no talk about R outside of MC.

[Did]

I think something I need to add into my talk at MC is that I understand W has recognized she has issues and this is the first step to fixing those issues. I understand she needs space to fix these issues.

REading this sitch: http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2782787&page=10