Hello Everyone, Where to begin … I have been lurking on these forums for the past few weeks. Boy what an eye opener. So much heartbreak and solid advice. Learned a lot already. I stated off doing all the wrong things, but I think I am now on the right track, thanks to you all. Baby steps, right? Summary – I am 47 Years old, my wife is 47 years old and we have 2 daughters D24 and D23. D24 also has a daughter D3 (GD3). We have been married since 1996 and together full time since 1989 (28 years). September 16, 2018 was Bomb Drop day (BD day). I was shocked and unprepared. I got the I love you but I’m not in love with you anymore speech. Was not prepared. I went into a sort of shock and broke down immediately. Pursue, convince, beg, did it all. OOPS. She says she has been in a deep depression for years and needs to focus / find herself. The only way she can see doing that is to work towards a divorce via in house separation. We are separated but living in the same house with D13, she sleeps in a spare room. History – Wife born and raised in Brooklyn NY. When she was 15, she was I a bad car accident that killed her then boyfriend. She has since been terrified of driving and she never got her driver license, even to this day. She is currently taking drivers classes and should be able to get her license after 30+ years. I am actually very excited for her, it will be very liberating for her. I cannot imagine being trapped in a house for 30 years without someone else having to drive you everywhere you want to go. When she was 16-17 she was date raped and hid a pregnancy from her friends and family, she ended up with a partial birth abortion in the 8th month. Very difficult for her. In 2005 she was diagnosed with Sjogren’s disease and Fibromyalgia. This causes all the fluids in her body to dry up and causes intense pain and discomfort in all her nerves and joints. It also causes real bad arthritis and a dry Vagina/mouth/eyes. Sex can be painful for her, has been for years. Lube has been our friend. She takes hormones / opioids and some other stuff to help with pain and fluid retention. But it’s been years with no real progress. Her father bailed on her and her mom when she was 3 years old. He left and never came back. She still talks about this a lot, I can see it is a great source of pain for her. She refuses any kind of counseling, both now an back then. I was a Navy Brat. We moved every 3 years and I had to lose old friends and make new ones. Lived in Japan/Alaska/Maine/Texas/Connecticut and a few other places. I am an IT manager and have always been able to make ends meet. Lost a few jobs over the years due to layoff’s but have always been able to bounce back and get a new job making more money than before. This enabled my wife to stay at home with the kids for the past 20+ years, as was her preference. Because of that, we have raised 2 wonderful daughters. I owe 90% to her being there for the kids when I was younger. Don’t recall ever changing a diaper. My dad died when I was 18 and my mom died about 3 years ago. Just have 1 older brother left in my side of the family and he is less than stable in his current marriage. Not one I would seek advice from. That just leaves you all 8).
In 2005 ish, I came home from work one day to find my wife in the arms of another woman. They were spooning on the couch fully clothed. The woman was my D24 dance instructor, and my wife tells me that while she has been curious about women for a long time, she had never acted on it and she did not cross any physical boundaries with the OW. Obviously, there was an emotional connection. So, I started snooping and found an email from my wife to another female friend describing her relationship with the dance instructor. She said how she liked the soft skin and pretty smells of a woman but, she still was more interested in men. She said how she had not slept with her, but did look forward to spending more time with her. She also mentioned how she felt she might have “settled” when she married me so young and she wonders if she missed something else. I confronted her about this email and she immediately broke off any connection with the dance instructor and seemed genuinely remorseful. I have no doubt there has been no affairs since. I am so positive because she does not drive, has kids at home with me nighty and we track each other via phones. I am in IT after all. I also have admin access to her pc. I have known where she is, just about all the time for the past 28 years, not that I have tracked her for years regularly, but I had the ability at any time, and boy am I using that now. About 2 years ago she got a full-time job working for her aunt. About a year after that she started to lose a lot of weight, she went from about 165 down to about 125, where she is currently. She looks great, too good if you ask me. Best she has looked in years, it is also having a positive effect on her health, which is great! Well, this started to set off some red flags for me. Being in IT, I was able to check her phone and PC and found nothing to be worried about, so I just went about my business. Recently with the Bomb Drop, I got even more suspicious, she never leaves her phone anymore. I did some more snooping and all I find are chats with old friends from NY about her current marital issues and health issues. I really suspected a EA with someone online, and there still might be, I just cannot find any proof to justify my concerns. I have no doubt there is no PA, as I see her daily and can track her. I am not sure if it even matters. From what I have been reading, now that we are separated, not much I can do to stop her if she decides to go that route. Maybe it will even let her see for herself what’s out there, so she can decide if this marriage is what she wants or not. But not even something I want to think about. Current Situation – We live together in the same house, separated. We live with our D13 and intentions are to stay here at least until the end of the school year. D24 and GD3 come over several times per week for dinner and to hang out. Since my wife still has no license and she works directly across the street from my work, I give her rides to and from work each day. We start same time, end same time and I can literally see her office from my desk window. When we get home each night, we usually make Hello Fresh dinners and have meals together as a family with our D13. Something we have always done. In exchange for rides to/from work she has continued to do laundry / cook meals / clean the house. She has been VERY nice and friendly thru this whole ordeal. Like extra nice. I in turn have also tried to be nice, sometimes too nice. She wants to work thru this as amicable as possible. At my urging, we did go to the banks and have each other removed from our respective accounts. My money is now mine an hers is hers, fully separated. We did work out splitting he bills down the middle 50/50 and she says she does not want ant alimony or anything that is/was mine. She is very hard headed an independent, always has been in terms of favors/ handouts. She is Sicilian from Brooklyn after all. While this situation almost seems like it should make things easier, people being nice to each other and genuinely concerned for one another, it sure does make DETACH difficult. I am also lost in terms of GAL. WTF am I supposed to do when, what I want is the family life I have grown accustomed to. I enjoy the family time so very much. So, she says that she has been depressed for years and a contributing factor has been my emotional distance a lack of emotional support. She is a terrible communicator and has said very little over the course of our marriage about anything being wrong. She just bottles it all up and BOOM. She has not blamed me specifically for anything. She does not provide details other than, I can see in your eyes sometimes when you look at me like you hate me. I do not recall ever looking at her that way, but that is not what matters, what matters is how she felt. OK, back to me and what I have been up too. Since BD day, about 4 weeks ago. I have been a severe mess. Like emotional, something I have not been in years. I don’t know how to cope. I used to be an alpha male for sure. I had no idea until now that I am now a pile of mushy emotions that I cannot get a grip on. When did this happen an could it be part of the reason my wife no is no longer attracted to me? Hell yam, but when and how did it happen. Better yet, how the heck to do you break free and move forward? I know, GAL/Detach/Validate etc. … How the frig do you GAL? I want to GAL badly, I really do. GAL to me is living with and enjoying my family. If that’s not what I wanted, then why was I in the marriage to begin with? In order to GAL properly and not fake it, don’t I have to do something I really enjoy? I have been trying to fake it, go to the gym or the mall or a sports event, but I’m not enjoying any of those things. I have no desire to go bar hopping or these types of things. The very thought of another relationship or another person right now is almost appalling. No desire whatsoever to date or get involved with anybody new right now. Sure, makes GAL seem unreachable. No desire to do anything but resolve these issues. Yep, trying to fix something that I cannot fix, isn’t that what we men do? I keep having setbacks, I know the right thing to do is let go. It’s the only thing I can do, but it’s impossible it seems. I see her every day, we are nice to each other every day. Sure, makes it rough, but considering the alternative, would it really be better to be bitchy/angry and mean to each other right now, as we both walk our own roads to find ourselves? I have been working out, eating better and sleeping less. It does help me to feel better about myself, but I am not particularly hard mon myself either. I feel I live a good life and I am a good person and this divorce came out of nowhere, I’m still in shock. Let me share with you my first mistake and her response. I sent this on Oct 11, about 3 weeks after BD. I now know it was a mistake, something I will have to lean from. However, this was before I found this forum and the DB book (which I just started yesterday). Let me know your thoughts, please.
> Dear XXX, > > I cannot imagine a life without you. I don't want to imagine a life without you. This experience has has shaken me to the core and forced me to realize a lot about myself and you. The pain I am feeling, being abandon, must be what you felt like for the past few years. It is beyond my comprehension in hindsight, that I ever put you through such agony. It is unforgivable, the emotional distance I put between us, and for that I am truly sorry. > I want you know to know that I have already grown from this experience, in terms of reflection and realizing where I neglected you, your feelings, your needs, your desires and mostly my support in your life. I took for granted so many things. All your mannerisms, your dimples, your beautiful presence, your soft skin and your amazing smile. All the things you do for the family, house, me, kids, animals, everything. How ignorant I have been. > I do not want a life without you. This experience has also opened my eyes to the amount of LOVE and respect I have for you. Your are an amazingly smart and strong person. I mean really strong! I suppose years of emotional push up's have that effect, as I may soon learn. I love you XXX, plain. I want to be with you forever and learn from mistakes made. I want you to be happy most of all. I want our family to stay together and grow from this. I want to be closer to all of you than I have been, It's want I truly want , physically and emotionally. > I have been shocked from the revelation of what I should have known. I honestly had no idea it was this bad, how blind I have been. I see the signs in hindsight, I really do. How I wish I could change the past. > > Realizing a fraction of what I must have put you through, I really wish we could have worked on this together versus apart. I understand you have gone thru years of pain to reach your decision, a decision I have no choice but to respect. I see the strength it must have taken you to reach this decision and working on it again may feel like a setback to you. I really want the chance to work on our relationship together, with both of us having open minds and serious about this serious situation. Only if we give it a final chance will we really know, if both of us trying at the same time, can help us heal. I think our marriage and family is certainly worth trying, it's worth anything/everything to me. I Love you XXX, I love everything about you. > I only wish you would lower your emotional wall and allow me to show you the deep love I have for you and not just say it on paper. I want to show you how much you mean to me, I want to show you my emotional availability and share in yours. I want to support you and encourage you. I want to be there for you like never. These are just words, let me show you. Let me show you the love you deserve. > A life without you, XXX, XXX, XXX, XXX, is not a life I look forward to. That is a lot of loss. I have grown to love each one of them, they have accepted me as family from the start. They are my family, that includes YOU. > To show our children, that despite some major issues, we can work through our separation and that love can prevail would be amazing, for all involved. It's worth some effort, I think. > I am going to counseling. I feel I need to go to help me figure out my emotional hoarding. Not just with this terrible situation, but with most emotional things in my life. In the past my emotions seemed dead or just out of reach. This experience has put me in close contact to a lot of these long-lost emotions and they are quite overwhelming. I wish to share some with you and work thru most with assistance. > I realize this email may be unwanted. It represents what you have decided you need to move on from. For that, I am truly sorry. I am not sorry for saying how much I love you and always will. I love you XXX. > You deserve a happy life. You deserve someone who will invest in you, respect, support and understand you. You are an incredible person, all the way to your soul. I believe, I am that person, Let me show you. > How did I miss so many opportunities to show you love and support. How did I let it float along for so long. I was blind and ignorant. I was a fool to let someone like you feel anything close to unloved or not appreciated in any way. What a fool I have been! I have always loved and appreciated you, I just never showed you. Not at all. What a fool! I see now, let me show you. > In the past year, I have lost my job, my health and now, my wife and family. It's like the start to movie, one I do not want to be a part of. I have search my soul, I have hit rock bottom. Rock bottom is the driving force for real change. I see what I previously did not see. I have a long way to go, I would very much like to have you by my side, hand in hand, for the rest of my life. You deserve so much more than you were receiving. Let me show you. Let me back in, your emotional distance is not allowing me to show you. It does not have to mean we are no longer separated, it just means we both acknowledge this marriage is worth the effort of trying, together. I will move mountains for the chance to show you the love and support you deserve. > I actually think this has made me love you even more, if that possible. You are so strong and strong minded. You really can do anything you set your mind to, damned anyone who say otherwise. This makes me want to be with you even more. I find myself staring at you, respecting and in awe of your resolution, But also sad, that the one man who currently loves you to the core is the only man unable to scale the emotional wall you have erected. > When you agreed to marry me, it was because you believed I would make you feel cherished for the rest of your life. You were sure your heart would be safe with me, but I left you feeling neglected and insignificant. I left you cold. My selfishness robbed you of what was yours. That must have been awful for you, the very man you entrusted your heart to, left you cold .I am overcome with regrets for how I treated you. > > You trusted me with your heat and love and I treated them both without respect and kindness. That devastation led you to real change and tough decisions. It has recently done the same to me. I see what previously I did not. What a fool I was! > > I respect your decision, more than you know. That does not stop me from loving you. I can't stop the wheel you have set in motion. All I can do is show you the love and respect you deserve and hope you do not treat it lightly. I am truly sorry that I contributed to this marriage getting this point. I realize how awful this pain is and I am sicked that I caused you any pain whatsoever. > > I love you XXX, let me show you. > > Love XXX(H)
Dear XXX,
I appreciate what you’ve written. I know that you are hurt and I’m sorry for that. I want you to be happy and healthy! I know you want to try and repair our marriage, but I am ready to move on. I have been in a very bad place mentally and emotionally for a very long time! I have to move on for myself! I have fought through a deep depression and am working my way out of it. I just can’t do this anymore. I care for you, I truly do, but I’m moving on. I’m not sure you understand what I’ve been through, still going through! This was not easy for me, still very difficult! I want us to be on good terms and be there for each other. We are still family, my family is still your family, divorce isn’t going to change that. If after you read this you don’t want to help me, do anything for me, I’ll understand. I hope you do go and talk to someone, as will I. I still have a lot to work on for myself. I am here for you.
Love,
XXX(Wife)
Tue, Oct 2, 8:13 PM
to me
As of September 16, 2018, I will be moving out of our bedroom and into the spare room. As of this date, I consider us to be separated.
XXX (Wife)
Sorry for the above verbal vomit, my mind is racing. I typed that a few days ago while waiting to be approved to post here. Posting here looking for feedback.
So my take on all this nonsense, my wife is mentally Ill. To kill a whole family for personal gain is a hard trade. She must really be in a dark place to do this to her family.
I do have some follow up questions ill post later - like I have a 1 week vacation coming up first week of Nov. DO I tell her where I am going and what i'm doing? I have a few choices, just have not yet decided what to do with the week.
Nibs
NIbs
BD Date - 9/16/18 Me-47 Her -47 D24 D13 GD3 In house seperation
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL). DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
Don't feel bad about making mistakes. I have been separated for 3 weeks and made a right mess of things during that time. Now I know I have to detach and let her find her own way. As far as GAL goes it's not easy, I keep myself busy but I am still in a lot of pain. I hope it gets easier in time.
NIBS - Sorry you find yourself here. Give yourself a break for making mistakes. We all have, but hopefully we learn from them and move on.
GAL is not easy in the beginning, but necessary. Take small steps. Think about what you enjoy, then just DO it. Meetup.org is great. They have meet ups for just anything you can think of. I do that, rediscovered my faith, and reached out to old friends that I let go by the wayside while trying to keep the marriage together. Since H moved out 3 weeks ago, I have had activities every day. They just didn't fall in my lap. I aggressively searched them out. You can do that too. Consistency is the key. GAL is NOT about seeking out a new relationship. We need to set ourselves up to be happy in our own right whether or not reconciliation happens.
This is a great place to learn, but also a great place to just journal your thoughts. Good luck on your journey.
1. No in house separation. Say: "WW, you want a divorce and moving out is part of that process. Goodbye". Then move on with your new life. That is pretty much the crux of your situation. I could stop writing there and that would be great for your detachment. You won't be able to move on while she is still there. She will mind$%^& the hell out of you and you will have a tough time detaching. You probably don't want to listen to this advice. Your call.
2. Your W has a lot of issues, she needs help there. You are not the guy to help her with that right now, so don't try to for the time being unless she asks.
3. Spooning another person on the couch is clearly a breach of your boundaries. It would be for me too. That's wrong and your wife lied and manipulated her way out of that.
4. Her thinking about other people is normal in this situation. Even the hurt LBS's think about a future with another person.
5. Her being super nice is scary, like she is hiding something. I don't know if she is or isn't, but usually the overly nice is a tactic. If she wants divorce, why do you still have family dinners? That's cake eating, tell her no more.
6. You have to go GAL. Your wife wants a divorce. Your life is changing one way or another. Do you want to be in control of it or are you OK just letting it all happen? What do you, or did you, like to do for fun? Go to the gym, join sports league, bowling leagues, go drinking with buddies. Find a ton to do and go and do it. Your kids are old, they don't need you around. Seriously, make a 180 on your personal life and go have a ton of fun! The silver lining here is that you can now do anything you'd like!
7. What did you do, behavior wise, to contribute to her wanting out? We all have bad tendencies, and healthy relationships don't make it to these boards. Figure out your contribution and get to work on being the best you that you can be.
8. Tell your W she needs to move out if she wants to be "separated". B/c you can't be separated if you're still living together. Seriously, you can't let her get to "separated" status while still living with you. She's going to be going GGW (girls gone wild) and you're going to feel like crap. Then you'll be pissed and you'll tell her that, and she'll respond that you're "separated" so she's free to do what she wants. F that. Gonna be a bumpy road, you need to decide what you'll live with and what you'll lay down the law on.
9. Do not tell your W what you are doing. Trust me, she is not going to be doing the same for you.
10. Do me a favor and really limit contact with her. Quit driving her around, quit doing things for her. Once you're divorced, you guys won't be a family and won't be doing these things. That's her choice, so let her live with the negatives of her choice. Right now, she wants you to feel the negatives, as evidenced by her response to your letter. But she picked some other negatives that she doesn't want to feel for herself. That's cake eating, don't let it happen.
Good luck!
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
Thank you Ovrrnbw for your comments. I appreciate you taking the time and your input. These are the comments I was hoping for. I have the master bedroom and have told her to move out. She has no intention of moving away from our daughter and that will be end of school year at best. She has no intentions of moving out, nor can I find any way to force her out. Keep in mind, this is the mother of my children and the love of my life, until 1 month ago. While I know I Need to let go, I am having a real tough time getting tough, as i symphatise with her pain. Frekkn nice guy syndrome. Hah. I can see it as i reread it. Wow
So, can I force her out with no proof an affair? Or at all? Would that be best for D13? What if A starts after in house seperation? Does it matter, or part of the healing proces? Wtf
NIbs
BD Date - 9/16/18 Me-47 Her -47 D24 D13 GD3 In house seperation
Thank you all for your input. I am very grateful. Ovrrnbw, I have re-read your post several times, I fear you are spot on. Eeks How can I make her move out? How can I make her move out and leave our D13 here with me? How do I make sure D13 does not turn on me, if we are kicking mom out?
It all feels way to regular to me, except the love. So easy to play along ... It's like every other part of her brain is normal except this one, sheer determination, blinders.
I'm about to start rambling, so gonna divert my attention for a bit. Thank you all again for taking the time to read about me and my plight, Your comments make me feel less isolated,
NIbs
BD Date - 9/16/18 Me-47 Her -47 D24 D13 GD3 In house seperation
Sorry you find yourself in the so familiar situation. Your letter was fine. She knows how you feel. No need to tell her any more.
Most people here take to long to do the right thing. You might be an exception.
Setting her free. Helping her move out. Let her feel what is like not to have you. The quicker YOU make things happen, the more chance of saving the R.
These are going to be the most counter-intuitive things you will ever do in your life.
Rule of thumb 28 years ~ 28 months of hard work on your part. And there are no guaranties.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
