Equalzr's WW. Still accepting advice! Pt 3

[LH19]

I don't think there is anything wrong with a 50/50 split if you are both working full-time. Including in the 50/50 split would be like cutting the grass, taking out the trash and shoveling the snow which is more for men which would leave more of the cleaning and laundry for the women.

Now the problem comes in when for an example, I have a friend who works full time and does a majority of the cooking and cleaning and his W is a stay at home mom with one 14 year old daughter. Those are nice guy beta male tendencies and she has no respect and walks all over him. BTW he claims they never have $ex. Shocker right?

[Maika]

I was doing some reading and found some interesting information. Im learning about respect and how it is earned by a man from a woman. That said, upon some of my reading, i came across articles that said when the man starts doing the majority of the housework, the woman loses respect for him. The basis was that the man should focus mainly on his career and achieving success there, and then help the woman with housework sometimes. Basically saying the woman admires and is attracted to a man who strives for success.

I think this is an excellent discussion point for a deep dive. With social norms changing, I find that most are generally confused about how to approach balancing household responsibilities with their W and still be an alpha male. This is just my take from my own personal experience and what I see and what I have learned from my own personal development.

It's still very true that women overall do a much larger share of household work and childcare responsibilities. That has been shifting with many men contributing a lot more than before. What I have seen, and what happened in my personal case, is that men go from one end of the spectrum to almost the other end - not helping too much, to almost doing everything. And what I have also seen is that this change in behavior happens a lot of times because men want to avoid conflict and please their partners.

That is all well and good BUT, if men don't have strong boundaries, don't take care of themselves, aren't confident and assertive, don't crush it at their work, aren't ambitious and driven, aren't taking the lead - then they are getting domesticated. That's what happened with me. Depression had a role to play, but I essentially became domesticated and a beta male.

So, I don't necessarily see the issue in doing household duties. The issue is men not being able to achieve a balance between that and being a badass. It is about how you are doing in other areas of life. Women want you to help out at home, and men absolutely should, but don't do everything.

I don't think it's reasonable to only help out sometimes. Many of my female friends are crushing it at work and then coming home to do everything - that's ridiculously unfair. Men who are not pitching in are not my definition of a modern man.

[Terapin]

Well I think a lot of women want a 50/50 split of the traditional 'woman' chores (cleaning, dishes, etc), but don't even entertain the thought of a split of the 'man' chores (cutting grass, shoveling snow, garbage, etc). And I think that's where a lot of the problem comes in. If a man spends 5 hours a week mowing grass, weed whacking, trimming hedges, etc, etc, and a woman spends 5 hours doing dishes, vacuuming, cleaning, etc, that in theory should be a 50/50 split of the chores. But rarely do men get 'credit' for those things, as it's just the 'man's job'

[Maika]

I don't think that's a fair generalization. My W did a lot of the 'man' chores - mowing grass, weeding, etc. If you're trying to build up credit for what you do, that's never going to work. It's way more about your mentality as a man, not being a NGS, and taking care of your stuff, even if that means folding laundry. All about attitude and personality and how you carry yourself in all areas of life. The issue is that men become passive and domesticated rather than being alpha in all areas of life.

[equalzr]

I can agree with alot of this. I definitely became "domesticated" being a sahd, even though i still worked. My W was the breadwinner and i took on the role of trying to be super dad bit neglected any career ambitions. Big mistake.

Also, my W never once has done any outdoors work at the house. The crazy thing is when my W was a sahm, i worked 65-70 hours a week to pay the bills but my W never once appreciated it. I dont want a pat on the back for doing my job, but tellimg me that "i wasnt sacrificing, and that she was" by staying home with the baby definitely stung. (When we switched roles she then changed it to her sacrificing by working and me staying at home...her pile was worse no matter what)

This topic is making for some great conversation, and i think a lot of us can learn from it. Another thing, i never realized that all the work i was doing at home, while appreciated, wasnt really moving the needle for my W. She really needed me to hit on her LL's. So the effort and thought was there on my part, but there wasnt a plan or know how.

[Terapin]

I don't think that's a fair generalization. My W did a lot of the 'man' chores - mowing grass, weeding, etc. If you're trying to build up credit for what you do, that's never going to work. It's way more about your mentality as a man, not being a NGS, and taking care of your stuff, even if that means folding laundry. All about attitude and personality and how you carry yourself in all areas of life. The issue is that men become passive and domesticated rather than being alpha in all areas of life.

It's certainly a fair generalization with the married couples that I know. Not saying the women don't do any of the man chores, but certainly not to any great extent.

It's not about doing stuff to get credit. My point was many women complain about their men not doing enough around the house to help them. But they seem to discount the yard work, snow shoveling, hanging xmas lights, etc that the men do.

[equalzr]

I'd love to get Sandi's and some other ladies on this board to give their opinions.

[Maika]

Terapin - with my network of married folks that I know, most of the women also pitch in those 'man' chores. But, let's just say that what we both are seeing is on a spectrum of how men and women pitch in domestic chores. My point is not about the 'man' or 'woman' chores, it is about how you execute them and how you execute the rest of the stuff in your life. I think talking about household chores is a communication necessity, especially if the 'man' thinks what he does is not taken into account. There has to be a proper conversation and understanding between partners about what they are both doing in the household and what the division is.

I feel like there is this 'blaming' tone to what you're saying. If you're dissatisfied with how your W doesn't appreciate what you do, then frikkin' man up and talk about it and be assertive about how you're contributing. The NGS behavior is to just suppress this and avoid conflict. This is what my larger point is, you want respect from a woman - be an alpha in all areas of your life. Take ownership of it - I can't say this enough.

[Terapin]

Terapin - with my network of married folks that I know, most of the women also pitch in those 'man' chores. But, let's just say that what we both are seeing is on a spectrum of how men and women pitch in domestic chores. My point is not about the 'man' or 'woman' chores, it is about how you execute them and how you execute the rest of the stuff in your life. I think talking about household chores is a communication necessity, especially if the 'man' thinks what he does is not taken into account. There has to be a proper conversation and understanding between partners about what they are both doing in the household and what the division is.

I feel like there is this 'blaming' tone to what you're saying. If you're dissatisfied with how your W doesn't appreciate what you do, then frikkin' man up and talk about it and be assertive about how you're contributing. The NGS behavior is to just suppress this and avoid conflict. This is what my larger point is, you want respect from a woman - be an alpha in all areas of your life. Take ownership of it - I can't say this enough.

That makes sense.

[equalzr]

I was doing some reading and found some interesting information. Im learning about respect and how it is earned by a man from a woman. That said, upon some of my reading, i came across articles that said when the man starts doing the majority of the housework, the woman loses respect for him. The basis was that the man should focus mainly on his career and achieving success there, and then help the woman with housework sometimes. Basically saying the woman admires and is attracted to a man who strives for success.

I think this is an excellent discussion point for a deep dive. With social norms changing, I find that most are generally confused about how to approach balancing household responsibilities with their W and still be an alpha male. This is just my take from my own personal experience and what I see and what I have learned from my own personal development.

I think that is part of the problem, it really is confusing as to where you should draw the line. My W would have been perfectly fine with me doing all the work and paying all the bills as well. Shes a go getter in the business world, but doesnt care for the home stuff. In a sense, my W has always had a male/alpha mindset about some things. I think we butted heads for quite a while over some of them.

From my experience, my W could have cared less about my outdoor chores.
She was fully focused on what she had to do and wanted help with. I chose to pick up more chores because i love her and wanted to help her, but now realize i applied NGS. I burned myself out doing chores that didnt matter in the end when i could have been using that energy to satisfy her LL which would have meant much much more. Too little too late now i guess for this one.