13 years and two small children

[SteveLW]

Oh the reason you're dealing with a WW is because she wants to do whatever she wants to do (OM) AND still have you as her H. You need to show her that she can't have both. D'd or not.

[AnotherStander]

Am I dealing with a wayward or a WAW ? I don't really know how to tell..

Probably a WW. They are usually the ones that engage in affairs while continuing "family life" at home.

is this "relationship" totally doomed

No, marriages have come back from far worse than this.

and should I just say goodbye and thanks for what was ?

Yes, you absolutely should. Because she is 100% done (for now, that may change in the future but it'll be a while). In her mind there is zero chance of recon. So you too should call it done and get about the business of moving on. Quit putting up with all her "playing house" BS.

however i woke last night from a shadow in the hallway, she was apparently looking at me and my daughter sleeping (she didn't notice I woke) she stood there observing us for 2 minutes after she came home from OM, before she silently went to the other end of the house to go to sleep - meaning of this ?

It's classic cake-eating. Goes out for a fling with OM and comes home to see you in bed with D and stops to think "oh they look so cozy, that's sweet!" The term cake-eating comes from the old saying "you can't have your cake and eat it too" as you probably know. She's having her cake (OM) and eating it too (family life). But if you eat your cake how can you also have it? She only can as long as you allow it.

I found a old letter she wrote me 10 years ago, where I was about to leave her. She pleaded, begged and cried her heart out, asking for us to reconcile, and talk about things, not make hasty decisions and what not. I printed this out together with a letter stating, that I am going to be moving on now for the sake of myself and the kids

Good, now throw both of them away. DO NOT GIVE HER ANY LETTERS. DB'ing is all about showing changes through ACTIONS. Letters and talking do not work with a WW.

[Hurt213]

Update:

Thank you so much for your replies to my thread. I was really surprised by how logically your approach seemed when I read it out aloud. I think I have been postponing detaching because I have been going around this the wrong way.. If I just show her, how much I can help out, how great I can be around the house, then she will leave OM and not have any feelings for him and come back.

I now realize, that the 10 year old letters, are in fact 10 years old, and should stay in the past. They won't do any good in the present as it won't be like we are reminiscing about good old times. You hit the nail on the head with the "going through the trash for a document - It really showed me how deep I have been in trying to hold on instead of letting go and moving on. That is definitely not who I am and not the values I hold deer and want to project on to my kids and the ones I hold dear in my life.

I told her that the real estate broker is coming this sunday, however I am not going to be helping out with her list of things shat she thinks needs done before he gets here.

According to Sandi rules, I should show that I am content, happy and moving forward - I should be nice and friendly - however I am having a real hard time figuring out where the "border" between detaching from our old life and showing her that I don't really care but still act friendly and nice. - You talk about throwing her out of the bedroom (we are taking turns sleeping in the bedroom of the youngest child - should I tell her to move there permanently, and is that not going against sandi's rule about being cordial and not arguing, being happy and content?

What about daily life? today we have gymnastics (don't know if that is the right word for it in english) with the little ones, and she wants to come, do I tell her, yes sure, lets go play family? or do I just tell her, we don't do this anymore? I am having a hard time finding the balance in this 180.. How much "family" do I play with her?

She apparently found my letter this morning when she packed the bags for work (yea she insists on packing my lunchbox still - should I just tell her; no thank you?" She asked if the letter was for her? (it was in an envelope with her name on it) - She seemed genuinely happy and interested in it, however I told her no it wasn't. She then responded "well, it has my name on it..." and then left it with that comment - should I just destroy the letter ? (the one that informs her, of the fact that I am moving on now with the kids because she is so infatuated and out of reach that we are not compatible at this point).

Tonight she will be going to OM again, and whenever she does, she becomes real distant and cold in the hours before leaving. Yesterday she wasn't going anywhere, and I had a late meeting a work, when I came home she had kept food warm for me in the oven, and sat down to eat with me.. I am so confused to this behavior. I just thanked her for making me dinner, and then ate and headed out to the gym.

I am confused

[DavidUK]

My W was sleeping with me saying we were soul-mates before she left, only for me to later discover she had been taking money, clothes etc. to a new place planning to leave.

After she left she offered to buy nice things for me and arranged family days out together only for me to discover that she had tried to get me into trouble with the police.

I still can't comprehend that my best friend, soul-mate, wife could do such things.

[ovrrnbw]

Hi Hurt,

she wants out right? Well, then not sleeping in that bed, in that bedroom, in that house are all a consequence of that choice. Let her deal with the consequence of her choice.

I'd say your W is welcome to go to gymnastics whether you want her to or not, right? It's her kids there right? So that would be ok to let her tag along with you to things you are doing. But don't plan anything around her.

Don't tell W not to pack your lunch, just pack your own if you'd rather her not do it for you. Do it the night before or something like that. Don't create conflict, just do your thing. I'd get rid of the letter. If you're writing her love letters while she's having an affair that just screams WEAK!!!! Get rid of it unless you like her running roughshod over you.

[Hurt213]

Update:


So I followed your guys advice, and frankly I am tired of acting like a doormat. I came to the realization today, that I have become someone completely else during this process, someone who is definitely not me, and that is unacceptable.

I told her today, that she ruined the family, and therefore the consequences were as follows:

1. From here on out, I would be taking the bedroom and she can sleep on a mattress in our youngest kids bedroom. (She accepted with no protest).

2. I told her that she could take all her things from the master bathroom and move them into the guest bathroom (she accepted with no protest)

3. I told her that our joint account from here on out was only going to be covering the expenses to the house (yea I have been postponing this, thinking it was going to help me, if I kept supporting her financially aswell). All the expenses from the joint account that were not going to house bills, are now divided between us on our own personal accounts. She became real aggravated when I told her, that i weren't going to co-finance her new car anymore, and that she would have to pay that her self, since she wants to take the car + the debt when the house sells, and then drive off. I told her, there is no logically reason to why I would keep on paying half the cost for a car im not going to use, nor get anything out of when she decides to sell it at some point. She didn't agree but in the end said "fine - but she was clearly angry".

I don't know if I threw too much at her at once, I don't know if I [censored] up completely by doing this, but im confused, and needed to set some boundaries for once i felt.

Did I screw up?

[SteveLW]

NO YOU DIDN'T!! Well done.

I am supportive of all of this. And yes she is probably mad, but guess what....she respects you now.

Now just go back to detaching, GAL, and 180ing and being the best you can be.

[sandi2]

We have had a great run being together from age 17-30.

Were there any previous boyfriends/girlfriends before dating each other?

I became sick 6 years ago, and I was not able to provide her with the love, affection and caring that she needed. I developed a depression, that kept me in a state of wanting to be alone and being "grumpy?" all the time. This came in periods, and she stood by me even though it was difficult.

Serious depression is absolutely horrible. Many people do not understand it. To have a devoted companion is a blessing. I think it takes a very loving and patient sole to endure living with someone who has depression. Depression is often misunderstood and others may see you as lazy, weak, contrary, etc. Some spouses just get fed up with it. This leads me to make this statement. Whether or not your depression was a factor that lead to her losing certain feelings for you......it did not merit betrayal. You are not responsible for her affair.

I asked her on that night, if she had met someone else, because then I would not stand in her way, even though it killed me to see her destroy our family life - she said there weren't anyone else, but that she had felt unhappy for a long time, and that her feelings had gone.

So, you gave her ample opportunity to reveal the truth, and she chose to lie to your face, and she continued living with you, as a W.

It is hard for H's to realize just how much respect his W has lost for him. In this case, your W is no longer hiding the fact that she's meeting OM. I doubt she's even considered how blatantly she's rubbing it in your face. You don't have to like it, and you don't have to smile and tell her to have a good time, when she's going out with OM.

According to Sandi rules, I should show that I am content, happy and moving forward - I should be nice and friendly - however I am having a real hard time figuring out where the "border" between detaching from our old life and showing her that I don't really care but still act friendly and nice.

I did use similar words and how that could be confused or misunderstood in some instances. You show her that you don't really care, by refusing to get caught up in the drama, and refusing to fall for her manipulation tricks. How? By changing how you think and how you see her. You do it by not having any expectations whatsoever. In other words, you aren't always mentally weighing what "she" thinks about you. You stop mentally weighing if she'll like it or not. You stop worrying about her mood and how what you'll need to do to make her feel better. You'll stop putting her feelings ahead of everything else. You probably thought that was what you were suppose to do in a MR. However, at the current time, you need to direct your thoughts to the information you are learning, and how you will handle things as you go forward. No longer are you her puppet. No longer do you live to keep her happy and satisfied with her life, and with you. It's not your responsibility. It is your responsibility to make yourself happy, and to see to the welfare of your children. If and when she ends the affair and is willing to do the necessary work to have a trusting relationship.....we can talk about how to deal with it. For now, you have to see yourself as an individual rather than a "couple". You have to let go of your nice-guy tendencies and don't try to rescue her or make her feel a particular way. Stay focused on "your" day and "your" GAL, etc. If she does something that makes you feel disrespected, then speak up. Stand up for yourself. If she's being all nicey-nice, just go with the flow, but don't make it more than it is. It doesn't mean anything has changed.

In her mind, the M was over when she started her affair. She immediately placed you in the friend zone. She wants to keep you emotionally attached to her, but she doesn't want to be in a romantic relationship with you. While she has another man, she will not see you see with romantic eyes. She will not see you with romantic eyes as long as she feels disrespect for you as a man/husband. The only thing a WW truly respects is someone stronger than her. I don't mean muscle wise, but in other ways. If the H shows any doormat behavior, she is disgusted by it. She will take advantage in every way she can. And, that's one reason the H can't be bosom buddies with her. He has the idea it will lead to a reconciliation. However, if she is being unfaithful to him, she's just going to use him for a babysitter, cook & house cleaner, etc. In my opinion, in-house separation while she continues her affair......will never cause her to see you with respectful eyes. Does this make sense?

You determine the border by how it makes you feel. Boundaries are used to protect your feelings. If she's doing something that causes you to feel disrespected, then call her out about it. For example, laying out her intimate apparel she intends wearing while she's with OM, is a sign she is not considering your feelings. I'm not saying that calling her out will stop her from doing it...….but you can at least speak up. The ultimate disrespect is her cheating, and compared to that.....these other things may seem small. I tell people that if the WW does not have consequences for not honoring her H's boundaries, then their is no point in voicing them. Once she's in an active affair, she's not going to honor many boundaries, if there is no backlash on her.

I'm getting a little off the subject of your question. You want to know how to balance showing yourself as a confident, peaceful, man who portrays a positive mental attitude...…...and when he's going too far and looking like a nut. I get it. It's hard for me to know how to sum it up in a few words. I believe you have to determine how you are going to conduct yourself, and act accordingly, rather than conducting yourself to win her approval. We try to tell you how to be the best version of yourself. You determine what that best version is. She doesn't get to determine it. Make sense? I think this helps you find the border in many of these situations.

I also think all of this is particular difficult for a "nice" guy. If we tell him not to sweat the small stuff, he won't call WW's hand on anything. If we tell him to not allow the least little grumpy word, he blows it out of proportion. So, I guess you'll have to give us some examples and/or ask about particular actions.

He has to know his own self value and live by his belief system, morals, principles, etc. He has to base his decisions on these, rather than basing decisions or actions to appease his cheating, disrespectful WW. He has to stop doing the actions he thinks will "win her back", b/c it doesn't. It only pushes her further away. He has to have dignity. He can't compromise his integrity. He has to let her go, in the sense that he's not making her the center of the universe. As long as he feels desperate to hang on to her, he will not behave as an attractive male.

Tonight she will be going to OM again, and whenever she does, she becomes real distant and cold in the hours before leaving. Yesterday she wasn't going anywhere, and I had a late meeting a work, when I came home she had kept food warm for me in the oven, and sat down to eat with me.. I am so confused to this behavior. I just thanked her for making me dinner, and then ate and headed out to the gym.

This is the behavior of a WW. As long as everything goes her way, she's usually fine & dandy. Many WW's are very manipulative, and they know exactly what to do with the H to get whatever they want. If she's having sex with the OM, then she is usually going to be cold to her H. She does not operate logically. Everything is based on her emotions in that moment. Her H is not going to understand her up & down moods, b/c he's looking at her behavior to direct him about the relationship. That's why you cannot believe what she says, and very little of what she does.

(yea she insists on packing my lunchbox still - should I just tell her; no thank you?"

If she wants to fix your lunch, that's fine...….just as long you as you understand it doesn't mean a thing. It is no sign that she still has feelings for you, or that things are better. It's just the way many WW's act, in order to keep the H emotionally attached.

By the way, WW's have very, very little guilty feelings. Why? B/c they see themselves as justified. Hopefully, some day she will feel remorse, but currently...….she doesn't. I talk more about this in my WW threads. This is the link to the first one:


For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554


I don't know if I've helped, but if you have questions....please ask.

[Hurt213]

Thank you so much for that very thoroughly written and very helpful input and insight into my very messy life at this point of time .

I honestly have been reading your post 3-4 times this morning, and every time I find myself nodding and realizing that both parts involving me and my WW are spot on.

I had a great sleep after setting boundaries and speaking up for my self yesterday, throwing her out of the MBR and cut her off financially.

And now it gets really interesting.....

This morning she came in, and told me, that she would not be leaving home sunday through wednesday, as she had planned to. In fact she would not be going there anymore. Then she burst in tears and excused herself. I asked her if she was okay to which she replied no, not at all.. I didn't respond to her answer nor did I comfort her in any ways. I just made breakfast for me and the kids and attended to their needs and my own.

She proceeded to delete all the calendar dates where she was supposed to leave the house to be with OM.

How do I proceed from here? I guess she is the one that i supposed to be showing interest in me if there is to be something to work on, and if not, then I just proceed with detaching, 180 and having the real estate broker over this sunday?

[LH19]

Then she burst in tears and excused herself. I asked her if she was okay to which she replied no, not at all.. I didn't respond to her answer nor did I comfort her in any ways. I just made breakfast for me and the kids and attended to their needs and my own.

She proceeded to delete all the calendar dates where she was supposed to leave the house to be with OM.

You proceed with strength and zero toleration of this BS behavior. Writing on the family calendar nights she's staying at OMs. WTF? If it was me I would set that calendar on fire.

The tears are fake so I wouldn't put much stock into it.

You are on the right path. Boundaries, boundaries and boundaries.