A new mindset for Burned. This is thread 7.

[AnotherStander]

I've been doing things as instructed (probably not as well as I think I have), but the sitch continues to deteriorate. There is basically no M left to save. Going dark has NOT made anything better. I know it's just a tool to allow us to have time and space apart from each other, but I don't feel any better after a month of this. Interactions with W are now about as unpleasant as they could be. No temp checks. Texts no longer include even the most basic courtesies. It's just straight business. I think probably that interaction we had last week where I said "I don't think divorce is the solution, you know how I feel about this" really set her off.

Burned, I know it feels like FOREVER to you but 6 months is not long enough for her to see things differently. The recons that happen around here begin with the WAS having a change of heart, and while I have seen a couple in less than a year, it's far more common for it to not happen until the 1 to 2 year range. And typically the LBS gets little to no interest from the WAS until that time. So it's not uncommon to hear a LBS say there's no hope, their W is 100% done, she has zero interest, there is zero chance of recon etc. etc. etc. until suddenly the WAS unexpectedly DOES show interest. And then there's typically a year (or more) of work before they finally get to the point where they're willing to call it a reconciliation. It's a very slow process and requires a ton of patience. It's frustrating when you don't see baby steps but that's honestly pretty typical. Typically there's a long drought after BD where you get little to nothing from the WAS.

I'm trying not to be pessimistic but I anticipate it'll be a pretty bad day. And I've had a lot of pretty bad days lately. IC says I have my foot nailed to the ground and I refuse to pull out the nail.

I was going to say something similar. You need to get yourself to the point where she does not dictate your moods. Where you say "she's trying to make this a crap day but screw it, I'm having a GREAT day in spite of her."

It’s funny, it doesn’t feel like progress at all. Maybe you outside observers have a better perspective.

You're still looking to her to measure your "progress"!

Maybe the “progress” is the fact that I’m starting to let things be rather than trying desperately to make something happen.

Yes that's a start. Let go of the rope, then you can rebuild yourself and THAT is how you measure progress.

[burned]

I think it was AMOAFWL was the first to really get me to understand that marriage is just a piece of paper telling the govt that we are married. I am not religious so that takes that aspect of it out. My thought was we will get D and if she changes her mind and I am open to it we will just get back together sell one house and family will be back in tact.

I truly believe they won't take a second look until they KNOW you are not an option anymore.

(I know I'm going to take some heat for this because it means I'm still thinking about how my actions will affect her. I'm just trying to integrate multiple perspectives here so I have a sense of what my options are. In the meantime it's GAL and darkness for Burned.)

This is funny to me because in my case it's W who is trying to make me a non-option. But I'm letting things be, not doing anything one way or another. So what happens? She files, then changes her mind later? Or I file to expedite the process? (Yeah, I know, there's no way to know how it will play out.)

IC thinks the expedited route is the way to go, mainly for my sanity, but also because W most likely KNOWS that unless I file, I'm still attached. Amoafwl asked at one point why I'm so focused on that piece of paper and the signal it represents. I think that's the reason. But the advice I'm getting here, which is perfectly fine with me by the way, is to just put all that junk on the back burner and show her I'm detached by my detached actions. That is my current approach and I guess if I'm being honest with myself it's starting to help me recover a bit.

So then maybe it's about getting myself to a point that I don't care either way about D? In other words, I'm putting too much emphasis on the logistics of the R rather than the PERSON I have the R with. Wouldn't be the first time.

Just wondering what people think, for the sake of discussion. At this point I have no desire to D, but W is astute, and I did enough pursuing before my DB days that she can read me like a book.

[Ready2Change]

put all that junk on the back burner and show her I'm detached by my detached actions......she can read me like a book.

Stop trying to show her.

We can read you like a book as well. You are dancing in the corner putting on a show for W. She will see through that.


Let go of the outcome.

Do things because they are THE RIGHT THING TO DO.

I have this quote, not sure where I found it:

A confident man dives into situations that are critical to his goals, regardless of the perceived chance of failure. He shows no fear or hesitation.

What are you goals?

[MoveFrwd]

She can read Burned like a book.

But as you continue to grow and learn and develop....will she still be able to read Burned2.0 like a book? I say no.

I say filing based on anything you think she might think is ludicrous. What she thinks is irrelevant at this point. If she wants to divorce you, let her. You’re too busy being awesome to be worried about whether or not you are divorced at this time. (UNLESS there is some financial reason that you want to proceed). Don’t assume that the act of divorce will help your detachment.

How about I send you a piece of paper that says you are divorced? Will THAT help you detach?

[LH19]

B,

I have to be honest with you I don't know your entire story but I am going to post for you a posting from Accuray that really made me truly understand what is going on and I think it may benefit you.

Very sorry for what you've gone through here, it's heartbreaking. You've done some things very well and handled the initial situation as well as can be expected. More recently however you're falling into a very familiar pattern that leads to a long period of pain and limbo.

Being in this situation is like dying of thirst floating on a raft in a poison lake. Everyone will tell you not to drink the water, and why you shouldn't drink the water and what will happen to you if you drink the water. You can intellectually understand what they're saying, you "get it", you can convince yourself that you're not going to drink the water, but each night when you go to sleep and each morning when you wake up, you're thirsty as hell and the water is right there, so it's extremely easy to convince yourself that a little sip can't hurt. Despite the fact that you know you should not drink the water, you will just keep doing it because you keep convincing yourself it’s okay to do so because you're just dying of thirst.

So how do we bring that to your scenario? There is really only one prescription and that is to take the focus off of W entirely and focus only on you, your life, and what you want from it. Your learnings about what you need to improve about yourself are an asset you take with you, but everything else about W, what W is doing, what W is thinking, etc. needs to be entirely put aside.

You are not safe for her to approach until she feels you've let her go. That's a simple truth, but incredibly hard to accept.

Reaching out to W, making overtures, contacting W's family, talking to OM's W, snooping on W, this is all "drinking the poison water"

Why are you doing it? Why are you so obsessed with W? You were in a relationship with a woman who wasn't meeting your needs, who would irrationally blame you for anything that went wrong, and then cheated on you and lied to you. Why is that a prize worth making the focus of your waking attention?

The reason is that you are grasping to re-establish a feeling of control over your life.

When W dropped the bomb she ripped your sense of stability away from you. From your perspective you didn't do anything to deserve it, you couldn't stop it from happening, and you couldn't put things back together afterwards.

That would make anyone feel totally out of control, spinning down the drain, and that is a horrible feeling!

You are trying to analyze and understand everything so that you can build it into a rational model so that it will never, ever happen to you again. If I can avoid doing X, then Y will never happen. In addition, you want to unlock this puzzle, to deconstruct it so you can find the solution that will allow you to rebuild it. Finding that key would provide immense comfort.

Your brain has convinced itself that getting W back, or getting W to apologize and declare a desire to have you back is the very best and fastest way to restore your feeling of being in control.

With the benefit of time and distance, you'll realize that's what it's really all about, it's about regaining the ability to feel in control of your life and your future. It really has very little to do with W or who she is as a person, she's a lever to get you what you want, but that's really just an illusion.

You're dying of thirst (feeling out of control), and pursuing W is drinking the water out of the poison lake. You think it will satisfy your thirst each time you do it, but really it's just making you sicker.

We will tell you "don't drink the water!" Intellectually you'll agree, but the water is always there and logically it seems that drinking it is the shortest path to no longer being thirsty.

Instead, you need to paddle your ass to the shore, leave the raft behind, and get a drink somewhere else.

That's not code for having your own affair or finding a new woman to have a relationship with. It has to do with finding an authentic way to rebuild your feeling of being in control, controlling your own destiny and getting your mojo back.

If you take the focus off of W *completely* she will notice. That will give her space to breathe, and to think. That's the only way these things turn around -- the ONLY way.

[burned]

How about I send you a piece of paper that says you are divorced? Will THAT help you detach?

Haha!

No, but seriously. I'm detaching more and more every day. It's why I'm sort of preparing myself for various contingencies. Because at some point I don't think it makes a whole lot of sense to be married to someone you haven't lived with or talked to for months on end.

[TBSakaJ9]

I spent 8 months in limbo and while I used that time wisely it had no impact on my XW returning. I was not strong enough at the time but looking back I wished I would have filed for divorce myself. I realize now that she started dating as soon as she moved out (3 weeks after BD) of the house and more than likely only moved forward with divorce when she found someone she was comfortable with which is her current BF. I enabled the entire thing as I sat back, gave her time/distance and worked on myself. I enabled her to get comfortable and move forward on her terms.

That being said....don't file for D if you don't want one and don't do it as a trick or ploy to get your W to return.

[AnotherStander]

Just wondering what people think, for the sake of discussion. At this point I have no desire to D, but W is astute, and I did enough pursuing before my DB days that she can read me like a book.

My thoughts on the LBS pursuing D are that it can't happen until complete detachment is achieved and the rope is 100% dropped. How long does that take? At least 1 to 2 years. D is absolutely NOT a "technique" to bring a WAS back, which it sounds like is what you are hoping for. If you pursue D then it has to be because you are sure it's what you want, and with zero expectations that it'll change her mind.

In my case I was the one that finally pushed my ex to pursue the D, she had already prepared the paperwork with her L but it sat in limbo for a year. A business opportunity came up (a partnership) and clearly I didn't want to go into a partnership with a looming D, so I encouraged her to get the ball rolling and assisted with the paperwork. By the time that happened I was ready to end it because there was still a lot of uncertainty over how much I would owe her (since I kept the house), and also I had started dating and let me tell you, women aren't too keen on dating a separated (but still legally married) man, and I don't blame them because many of them end up dumping their new GF to reconcile with their W. So my attitude was "it's already over with so let's settle things legally and move on" and I was completely at peace with that. I've said this a few times but I expected to revisit depression and anxiety after D but frankly I walked out of court and just breathed a sigh of relief. I wasn't happy or excited or anything, but it felt like a huge burden of uncertainty had been lifted from me.

[burned]

Thanks LH/Acc for the analogy.

Joseph9, I'm guessing that a lot of these things play out the way they have to, regardless of what we do.

AS, I was meaning to ask you what happened with you back then, so now I know. You're always saying "there was no chance/opportunity for recon." But you've also said that things sometimes change despite the LBS thinking it's 100% done. So when you say "it's over with, let's settle this legally and move on," I guess that mindset has to come from a place of detachment rather than fear? I'm trying to make sure I'll be able to read things correctly if/when they start to change.

I mean, it's all just a lot of pointless hypothesizing mostly. I'll probably get as many different opinions as there are people. Plus it's past 5 so time to head home.

[TBSakaJ9]

Yes....they do. You have no idea how far your w is gone from the marriage. It is so shocking to believe early on and I still have a hard time grasping it when I stop and think. It really is amazing.