Equalzr 120mph w no seatbelts! Advise! pt IV

[equalzr]

previous thread

Started a new thread.

I would like to comtinue the discussion that ended in part 3. There was some grrat dialogue beginning, and i think not only can it help me going forward, but others here as well. Im looking at growing as a man, father, husband (or for future R) and im doing research to help.

One thing i came across when looking up how to earn respect from your W was an article that said your W can actually lose respect for you if you become too domesticated and end up doing the majority of the inside the home chores. It went on to say that women are attracted to a man who strives for career success, and that helping out in the home should take a backseat to that.

Id love to hear others thoughts on this, especially some of the ladies on the board. I really hope Sandi sees this and chimes in, she has so much insight in this exact area.

[equalzr]

Maika,

We didnt really butt heads over household chores too much. I think cooking was a main point of contention. I ended up cooking more(W initially did all the cooking), because i eventually became a SAHD. I see now how NGS took over and i was too quick to please the W. We may have butted heads over outdoor chores which W never relented and helped on. So that shows a lot right there. I definitely have always been the one changing and pleasing, the beta. Sadly, trying to please truly doesnt/didnt please. Also, i am definitely working on these skills...Leader, Alpha, Decisiveness, not Procrastinating, and most importantly for me Goals and a plan to achieve them.

[Terapin]

So, this conversation somewhat came up a few hours ago in our MC session. The therapist basically said that the most important thing is obviously communication. That if both parents work full time, then the 'chores' should be split equally too. She said the problems often happen because each person has a different idea of what 50/50 is, and their expectations aren't necessarily realistic.

As an example, W said that she would often come home from work, and have to do x, y, and z in the house. And she resented that I either didn't do those things since I got home before her, or at least offer to help her when she did get home. But what W didn't always realize was that before she got home, I just got done mowing the grass for 2 hours or cleaning out the garage. Neither of us communicated effectively, and that was a big problem.

I think, and women here would certainly know better than me, that few women will get 'turned on' watching their husband vacuum or wash dishes. But by doing those things (not all the time, not being a servant, etc), she'll possibly be attracted to the husband in a different way. Maybe emotional? I don't know, but my W said something like that in our first or second MC session.

[equalzr]

^That sounds familiar. My W never really acknowledged the work i did outside the house but would be quick to comment on what she could use help on.

Im going to write a book on M(seriously), and this subject is going in.

[Maika]

EQ & T - yeh, the problems are NGS, lack of communication and boundaries here, not the actual chores. I bet you no woman is getting turned on seeing her slob H mowing the lawn vs the same slob doing dishes. The issue is being a slob. A woman will get turned on whether the man is doing dishes, folding laundry, or whatever 'manly' chore if he's an alpha. Imagine doing the dishes without a shirt on cuz you shredded and loud music blasting in the back? Yehhh! No lady is looking at that and thinking about that man being domesticated. When I was more alpha, my W would often come and hug me from the back clearly signaling it was business time cuz she was turned on as hell. That my friends is what it's about - being decisive, confident, and crushing it in all parts of your life. I am not saying this as some ruh-ruh macho sense. I mean truly owning who you are and radiating that in everything you do. That's where it's at.

[equalzr]

You make andamn good point Maika. That said, you mention "crushing it in all parts of your life" which points to some validity of women being more atttacted to a succesful man, and i guess that leaves it up to debate on how women feel about men who are very involved with household chores.

We need some ladies feedback! Sandi? Anyone?

[ballast]

FWIW...i always did all of the outside work and to her credit W would always say something like "the grass/yard looks nice". i would cook from time to time, vacuum, dishes...from every girl I dated, laundry was off limits. again to W's credit she would thank me. the ONLY time she ever stated what i was doing attracted her was like real manual labor outside, mowing the yard wasn't enough. don't feel like there was much more i could have done, but perhaps in her mind there was. i never felt beta like/domesticated/ngs/whatever...in fact i felt that was being very alpha, doing what the H needed to be done around the house....the rub i think really was more when i felt something needed to be done vs when she felt it needed to be done...just my .02

[Twofeet]

My 2 cents and experience is that it doesn't seem to be a alpha/beta thing vs expectation/appreciation thing. W would complain I wouldn't do my part or it wasn't 50/50. The problem was that my chores became expected and no longer apart of the 50/50 equation. I would tell my wife it could be 90/10 and I feel like it still wouldn't be good enough. Her side no matter the quantity was always weighed ridiculously heavy in her favor. The more I did the more it became expected.

To counter this I would work on us doing chores together, yardwork together, dishes together, cleaning together, laundry, etc. It has made things more even in her eyes this year. Not that it mattered because she is still Ding me.

[Maika]

Twofeet - did you ever have a conversation with her about what you were doing was becoming 'expected' and that you were not getting appreciation from her? Did you show her appreciation for what she was doing? And I mean not just deciding how you felt like appreciating her, but asking her how she would like to be appreciated for pulling her weight? If you didn't, it goes back to my point about communication and understanding expectations clearly. Otherwise both of you were engaging in covert contracts.

Ballast also brought a really good point - the expectation of getting something done from the perspective of both people. What was considered timely? For example, my W would consider doing dishes right after dinner as 'timely', where I saw doing it after putting kids to bed as 'timely'. So if I wouldn't get to it right after dinner, she would get annoyed at me. In turn I would get annoyed because she would just do it rather than let me do it before going to bed. I think this is a big piece that needs to be communicated and understood by both people.

EQ - I am not sure what you mean by 'successful'. Do you mean like making $$$$, or do you mean someone who is passionate, driven about their career, hobbies even if it's not making it $ rain? From my personal experience, I know that I lost my ambition and drive and that contributed to W losing respect, in addition to not taking care of myself and being too domesticated. But the field I am in compared to hers, I will never make the kinda money she does because of industry standards. She way outpaced me in $ earnings. But now I am way more driven and ambitious, which has made me confident and helped my self-esteem, and I know that it radiates outward. So if a woman wasn't into me because my paycheque wasn't as large, I don't want to be with that person either.

I know Sandi has amazing posts on this from a woman's perspective and hopefully she sees this and chimes in .

[equalzr]

By success, i mean when the H has career driven goals and doesnt let anything get in the way of his achieving them. Im sure a large part of that would also be financial success as well. I dont think rising the ranks at McD's is going to turn many wives on???