Grace - the thing I find scariest is that one day H will just be another person I know. Probably not going to happen soon as I still look at him and fancy the pants of him. He was always attractive. I guess I just forgot under the weight of building careers, paying mortgages and raising two children. I took him for granted and that's on me. I still think it [censored] that he gave up so easily though.
I was watching H at D12's football match on Sunday. When he can make it he volunteers be a linesman for half the game. I watched him safely from the other side of the field. Each time I glanced his way he was laughing or smiling. The fact that he was just enjoying himself doing something as simply as being a linesman for an U13s football match reminded me that a) I still fancy him and b) somewhere under that spite (which is less obvious now) is the man I love.
It will take me a log time to get to your place of lacking feelings.
Must repeat to myself, detach, detach detach ...
Originally Posted by Grace21
He's not wearing his wedding ring so he must not feel married.
I do know that my H took his off for a bit directly post BD. He went to the gym and came back without it on. I waited three days and then asked him why. He looked down, and responded with such sadness, "what's the point of wearing it". I told him we were still M. He put it back on.
When he moved out I took mine off and threw it at him.
We can't mind read, but perhaps your H took his off for the same reason my H did. He looked at it and thought "what's the point". It might not have anything to do with making themselves available to other women. if that's what they wanted, it is easy to slip a ring into your pocket when you're out and then put it back on when you come home. They might have taken it off because at that time it represents their sadness. I took mine off out of spite. He took his off too straight after. Neither of us have put it back on. I have regretted it ever since.
I've just re-read the pursuit and distance thread and have a couple of questions. Hopefully someone can help.
I have been detaching for a while now and, other than a few fairly big setbacks, I've stuck with it. The results have been good - he no longer avoids or ignores me. He no longer scowls when he looks at me. Whilst I have no expectations that this will lead to R it does make life easier for everyone.
My question is this. We spend a lot of 'family' time together. Sometimes it is at his request ("why don't you come with us to mums"), sometimes I will ask him to stay for dinner/have a cup of tea when he drops/picks up the kids. I asked him to join us for my family birthday lunch. He sometimes says yes, he sometimes says no. Same when he asks me. I don't expect him to say yes and I am not outwardly disappointed when he says no. There have been times when I have said no and he has accused me of being awkward or passively aggressively indicated that I am hurting the kids. Mostly he just accepts the no and waves me goodbye.
Is asking him to join us for family activities pursuit? Is saying yes when he asks me to spend time with him and the children pursuit? Is letting him come over to visit the kids even when it isn't on the schedule pursuit?
He seems to enjoy the extra time with the kids. He doesn't seem to hate spending the time with me. The kids love seeing us together. My invites aren't making him run for the hills.
When asking him to hang out with us or saying yes to invites to hang out with them I think of him in the same way as MIL (I would ask her to stay for dinner / say yes if she asked me to stay for dinner). Is this the right way to think of it?
I don't want to be awkward (as we are in a good place) but all the time we spend together seems to be counter to the DB'g principles.
I am going to go with the detached friend approach. I know it enables his behavior but I really couldn't cope with the angry monster again. I will say "no" more often though so he knows my life doesn't revolve around him anymore.
My days are fairly normalised now so at the moment my updates are really just me journaling my (very mundane) days and working through the tunnels in my head.
The kids are on a weeks holiday so I am having to work from home most of this week. I left my wallet at work on monday so one of my colleagues offered to bring it back with him last night (he lives in the same town) as I won't be in the office again for a few days. We agreed I would drop by his flat to pick it up from him today. When H came over this morning to spend an hour with the kids before he went to work I explained that I needed to pop out to pick up my wallet. He expressed displeasure - "why didn't you get it from him yesterday" (he was at work during the day); "why didn't you pick it up last night" (I didn't want to drag the kids out), "I need to leave by X can't you do it later" (no. I will do it now) - and also a bit more of the passive aggressive behavior I've seen a bit of lately "that's convenient that he lives so close" (yes it is).
It is strangely empowering watching him want to ask me more questions/get angry at me, but not being able to ... because WE ARE SEPARATED and he has no right to question or get angry.
I remember the faces he would pull when I'd mention a male work colleague. How he would suddenly become sulky and more critical. I paid it no mind at the time, but looking back I now see it for what it was - jealousy that he buried (because he would have hated to admit he was jealous) which over time turned into resentment.
Hi FS. I have the same questions as you about flexibility around the kids being pursuit. My schedule with my H is the "minimum" amount of time I expect him to spend with them. He gets off work about two hours before me and sometimes spends that time with the kids on days that are not technically his. I had told him before that was okay. On one hand, it benefits the kids to see him as much as possible but on the other hand, it also doesn't give him time to miss "us". So it is a quandary and one I would love others to weigh in on.
Overall, I think you are doing really well and your description of how things have gone seem pretty hopeful to me. He seems to be getting over his anger towards you and anger only seems to come out when he is a bit jealous. I don't think that is a bad thing. Sounds to me like when you say "no" to an invitation and he gets passive aggressive, he is disappointed you aren't coming...has expectations maybe that he is not aware of. In time, I think, he will become more aware.
What drew me into joining this forum (a first for me) was the lighthouse and picnic stories. These perfectly described my mindset. I want(ed) to maintain the light / picnic whilst he works his way through whatever demons are haunting him. In reading the threads, I found a community of people who showed empathy, kindness, and yes, at times, a much needed kick in the butt.
I am still of the same mindset but I realize that it is a balance between being the light/picnic and not being a doormat. I guess that's where detaching and 180's come into play. I can maintain the picnic but be detached enough to not be bothered if he joins me.
I worry that the jealousy will lead to resentment. I will still carry on with my life though.
FS... I am so proud of you!! Smoking is such a tough habit to break...worse than any addiction, I have heard. So good for you. And the improve course!!! That is so brave of you. And...no pressure or anything...but when my friend's first H left her, she met her second H at an improve course. Stands to reason you might meet some likeminded brave people who love to laugh there as well. Who knows what the future might hold if you continue to step outside of your comfort zone (assuming improve is outside of yours - it would definitely be outside of mine). I am looking forward to hearing about your experience. As I said before... I think you are doing a fantastic job and I find great inspiration in your posts as you are someone who struggles with similar dilemmas and questions as me. Super excited for you. I hope you laugh A LOT!!!
I stopped during both pregnancies and during breastfeeding (I did it for the kids) but started straight after as in my head it was the only break I got. Once, they'd be put to bed, I could go outside and do something just for me.That's what it felt like for a long time. Something just for me. Not for the kids, not for H. But just for me. Sounds pretty pathetic now.
H hated it. He would make lots of comments. But to me, it was him trying to control me so smoking was kind of like a silent two fingers up to him. I tried post BD. I lasted three months. Christmas and NY broke me. It was the wrong time to try. This time I am not telling anyone I am giving up. I am just going to do it.
DejaVu - I read on your thread that you are an IC for depressed anxious teenagers. I have a question about depression. Looking back H was very much in the midst of his depression at BD. I suspect it had been going on for at least 6-8 months before but reached its heights immediately after BD ... all that hatred just spewed out of him ... and stayed at that level until he MO. He would avoid coming home, watch TV for hours and he spoke of his unhappiness and not knowing how to be happy as the reason for the BD. He wouldn't look at me because I became (in his head) the cause of that unhappiness. Even the children were too much for him and he avoided them also. He became a loving father again as soon as he MO. But it took 7 months to start treating me like a person again. I am not sure if (in his head) we have gone too far down the separation route to reconcile, but I do suspect the fog is lifting.
My question then is when people start to come out of their depression, do they recognize the hurt they have caused others ? Do they feel any guilt? I guess I am looking for a reason for the sudden pleasantness.
Had a bit of a tough morning so am journaling twice today. I'm sure as the volatility in my emotions will level out the journaling will be less, but for now, it seems to keep the pain at bay.
H was picking the kids up this morning to take them out for the day. Normally he arrives around 8, we cross over for ten minutes and then I leave. But today I got a last minute text to join a work call at 8 am, and as it was already late I decided to take the call from home. I was already on the call when H arrived. In the past he hated hearing me on calls. He would never say anything. Just get a bit sulky and then make little comments later. I think this is because on some level he hated that I was so independent. Anyway, he saw I was on the call but didn't comment. He made both of us a cup of tea and then sat with the children in the living room. He took the recycling out. He walked the dog for 20 mins in the rain. When he came back, he sat with the children some more and then eventually asked them to get ready for their day out. I was already off the call at this point.
He helped them get ready, I wished them all a great day and shut the door behind them.
Then I went into my room and cried.
They were leaving to go to a fun park without me. Everyone was all sunshine and unicorns. The kids (because they were genuinely happy to be going out), me (putting on a brave face), H (perhaps it was genuine happiness, perhaps it was pretending a little bit too).
All I know is them spending a family day without me seems so normal now that it breaks my heart.
The kids are staying with them tonight then H is taking them to his mums tomorrow to go pumpkin picking. He is joining them at the pumpkin patch and asked if I would pick them up. He mentioned I am welcome to join the kids for lunch. Not sure if he will be there or not - he is going out tomorrow night so that is probably why he said I should pick them up.
When does the new normal just become normal? If it stops hurting, does that mean that I have stood down?
I have been thinking about the sudden niceness as well. I think it is a little bit relief (the pressure is off), it is a little bit guilt, and it is a little bit because he genuinely does not want me to be hurt. It does not feel like he is cake eating. I think on some level it would feel better if it felt like cake eating. Because at least then it would show he missed me, even a little bit.
Sounds to me like when you say "no" to an invitation and he gets passive aggressive, he is disappointed you aren't coming...has expectations maybe that he is not aware of. In time, I think, he will become more aware.