Unsure what's next, what to do.....Part II

[Ready2Change]

It seems like both Puppy and Allen sort of advocate exposing it in their different quotes in your thread. Is that true or am I not reading thing correctly?

MWD is against exposure. Most people do it wrong and for the wrong reasons. Just do your research. Make sure you understand both sides of the coin before you make a decision.



Otherwise, yes, it will blow up in your face.

[Wanted1]

Update:

I left last weekend for my meeting, which was on Monday, and took the weekend to GAL. Was in the hotel room on Sunday afternoon watching football when I noticed odd behavior on our outdoor security camera. W had a babysitter come over and long story short, I found out she went on a bike ride with OM. After the bike ride was over, I asked her how it was. She replied. I then sent her a text "so are you ready to admit this OM is more than what you've led on? I know you went on the bike ride with him." (She's tried to maintain all along that they are just "friends" yada yada yada when I've expressed to her that a third party can't be involved in our M if we are trying to work on things). She asked me "how do I know that," to which I just told her "I know that he was."

So, I immediately decided there was no way I could function in a meeting that next morning and decided to head for home Sunday. Didn't tell her I was. We exchanged a few text messages following the ones described above to which most of them were her telling me he was "passing through" and she asked him to meet with her so she could end things with him in a "respectful" manner. She insisted there was no intimacy. That they went on a bike ride and then she told him she was ceasing contact with him so that she can have a clear mind in trying to decide what to do. I told her I wasn't sure I believe her but that time would tell if she was telling the truth or not. When I got home, she sent me this big long message about what her and her therapist discussed at their last session, which was basically shedding some light on sexual abuse that took place while she was a teenager and went on into her early 20s. It was very graphic and wasn't just a couple times here and there. I knew this person had sexually abused her but I didn't know to what extent it had taken place. I thought it was just one time. Not that it took place over the course of 6+ years. She had never told anyone, ever, about any of this prior to sharing it with her IC and then me on Sunday night. I told her that I was so incredibly sorry that she had to go through that and has held it in for so long but that I appreciated her sharing it with me and if there was anything I could do I would.

Yesterday we had our 2nd couples session. I was hesitant to go, as I sort of referenced in previous posts but decided to move forward with it since the OM was "supposedly" out of the picture now. She informed both ICs (mine and hers) about what transpired on Sunday and also told them the meeting was to shut down their communication moving forward. She told me prior that her IC told her that if she does end it, "it needs to be for her and no one else" and she mentioned that in the session. My IC asked her in the session what obstacles she sees as reasons why we can't work on R moving forward and she didn't have an answer to that which I found a little odd but also maybe enlightening I guess? She seems to want out but if she wanted to work on things she can't pinpoint why she's concerned we couldn't make it work.... She did mention that she hasn't completely shut out the possibility of R with me, that it as never entered her mind that she is "just done." She went on to say that she just needs to make sure that that decision is, in fact, her decision and not because it's what I want. Which I get and respect and probably want. If things are going to work, we both need to be 100%

Her whole issue with the M seems to be that she's always disregarded her feelings and felt as though her feelings need to align with mine. She never felt as though she should stand up for what she thought or felt and that it was her "job" to "make me happy" throughout the M. While I continue to wonder when and what these things she's referring to are, I guess in the end it doesn't really matter if that's how she's felt.

So in the session yesterday, I floated this idea out to everyone. I told them that I'm afraid of the possibility that even if she does want to R, she, in her own words, has had so much trouble in the past differentiating what she wants with her feelings of needing to provide me with what I want, that she is trying her hardest to not feel as though she wants to R because that would then align with how I feel and therefore maybe she doesn't trust herself in that decision (confusing, I know!). I validated her feelings throughout the session but did voice this one concern I had. I think it was great insight on my part because I sort of noticed both ICs kind of nod in approval or satisfaction for what I was trying to say.

It kind of makes sense though....if she's working so hard at trying to be true to her self and true to what she feels, I suppose she might have trouble with coming to the conclusion that she wants to R since she can't differentiate whether that is what she really feels or is afraid she's falling back into her thought process from the past and simply wanting what I want. Almost as if she doesn't trust herself, yet, to know whether those feelings are true or not.

So, we still stand where we've been the past 6 weeks. I told her I had every intention of giving her time and space moving forward and I was doing a good job of it until I found out about the rendezvous with the OM on Sunday. I told her if he is truly out of the picture now, that I can absolutely give her the time and space she's looking for. I said I respect everyone's opinions on the subject, but I honest to God think that the continual communication with OM from BD until 4 days ago was absolutely an external influence. She doesn't seem to want to agree with that assessment but I think it was and maybe it was subconsciously for her and she didn't realize it. Regardless, it wasn't helping, let's put it that way. It feels like we've lost 6 weeks of this limbo period because of it.

She starts a new job next week. Commute to it is an hour each way. She will have less time at home with the kids which will be hard on everyone. However, maybe the 2 hour commute each day will give her some of that time and space she's looking for to reflect on what she really wants. With us still living in the same house and working together, the idea of time and space is nice but almost unrealistic up until this point. She acknowledged the same in our session as well. Her having a new job will give her more of that. I don't think she has any plans of moving out in the near future. We discussed that in the session as well. I voiced my opinion that I would like for her to continue living in our house, at least for the kids sake, until a decision is actually made. I did follow up though that I would understand if she didn't feel the same. She never really responded that she thought she needed to move out so I believe the plan moving forward is for her to continue living there.

I told her that I'm willing to wait it out for awhile until she gives me an answer one way or the other. Up until this point, she has said she has had no desire to R. But, like I said before, I kind of wonder if the OM has something to do with that. The other "obstacle" my IC brought up was fatigue on her part. Not only is she having to deal with these M issues, but also ALL of the trauma that's happened to her is coming to a head at the exact same time. Fatigue could absolutely be an issue. Just so much to deal with all at once. One of those is more than enough to deal with at any given time let alone both simultaneously.

In the session I explained my mentality moving forward is to not come to her with anything pertaining to our R for 2 reasons: 1) to give her the time and space she's asking for and 2) because I need to start emotionally detaching from this. I've been trying like hell to save our M thus far (in all the wrong ways, I know!) but regardless, I've been trying to do what I thought was best at the time to save it. And, while I'm going to remain hopeful, I also need to be realistic and essentially start protecting and looking out for myself and preparing for the strong possibility that this doesn't work out. I'd rather start preparing for that now than be blindsided in the future with her informing me that she's 100% out. I've had 6 weeks to grieve over this whole situation so I need to start moving on.I told her I'll wait but I'm not going to wait forever.

We both took the kids around trick-or-treating last night and had supper with some friends and their kids last night as well. I'm was feeling a little depressed this morning that that might have been the last holiday as a "family," but I'm doing a little better now. Trying not to think about the negatives and focusing on the positives.

[Ready2Change]

Good job on not revealing your source of intel.

Never reveal sources of Intel.
Never reveal too much.
Never reveal everything.

This is more powerful:

H"W, when was the last time you spoke with OM?"
W"Three weeks ago."
H"We both know you are lying right now. Please tell me the truth."


See the difference?


Just be very aware that most affairs will keep going deeper.

I wish you well during this.

[Wanted1]

Good job on not revealing your source of intel.

Never reveal sources of Intel.
Never reveal too much.
Never reveal everything.

This is more powerful:

H"W, when was the last time you spoke with OM?"
W"Three weeks ago."
H"We both know you are lying right now. Please tell me the truth."


See the difference?


Just be very aware that most affairs will keep going deeper.

I wish you well during this.

Oh, I'm fully aware. Not sure if I'll ever know whether or not its continuing. I'm trying to not snoop. I also feel like maybe karma might start rearing it's ugly head and I'll stumble upon it somehow.

Even if I don't, I guess I'm going to 'act as if' it isn't continuing for my own sanity. It will help me in detaching and not feel the need to confront her about him or fall into sharing my thoughts and feelings anymore. I now know that's been the my biggest mistakes thus far.

[Ready2Change]

Not snooping is to protect you emotionally. If you are strong enough to control your reactions, then Intel always helps. I know PuppyDogTails was very good at gathering intel and not revealing his sources. He was the affair busting expert.

[MoveFrwd]

Was in the hotel room on Sunday afternoon watching football when I noticed odd behavior on our outdoor security camera. W had a babysitter come over and long story short, I found out she went on a bike ride with OM. After the bike ride was over, I asked her how it was. She replied. I then sent her a text "so are you ready to admit this OM is more than what you've led on? I know you went on the bike ride with him." (She's tried to maintain all along that they are just "friends" yada yada yada when I've expressed to her that a third party can't be involved in our M if we are trying to work on things). She asked me "how do I know that," to which I just told her "I know that he was."

I wish you would have posted here first. To me, this makes it very clear that you are spying on her. Sometimes, it's better to take some time, collect your thoughts, and make a plan. Confrontation is just that....confrontation. But it doesnt really mean anything unless you can back it up with clear actions/boundaries. What was the end of result of this, exactly...? It isnt like you know clearly what went on while they were gone. Ive never heard of two people going out for a bike ride to decide to .... stop talking to each other. That feels like a conversation you have where you meet somewhere and go your separate ways....not somewhere when you then have to ride back for however long together. Whether or not they did anything physical on the bike ride isnt that important....it just doesnt make sense that THAT would be how they end contact.

When I got home, she sent me this big long message about what her and her therapist discussed at their last session, which was basically shedding some light on sexual abuse that took place while she was a teenager and went on into her early 20s. It was very graphic and wasn't just a couple times here and there. I knew this person had sexually abused her but I didn't know to what extent it had taken place. I thought it was just one time. Not that it took place over the course of 6+ years. She had never told anyone, ever, about any of this prior to sharing it with her IC and then me on Sunday night. I told her that I was so incredibly sorry that she had to go through that and has held it in for so long but that I appreciated her sharing it with me and if there was anything I could do I would.

That said, it is definitely a good thing that she felt comfortable enough with you to share this kind of information.

She informed both ICs (mine and hers) about what transpired on Sunday and also told them the meeting was to shut down their communication moving forward. She told me prior that her IC told her that if she does end it, "it needs to be for her and no one else" and she mentioned that in the session.

Im confused by this statement. I thought she did end it? Whats with the "if"?

I told her that I'm willing to wait it out for awhile until she gives me an answer one way or the other.

Im having some trouble understanding why this is such a 'given' for her. From what I can recall, this woman has had multiple affairs with all kinds of deceit. Why is it that you are going to put your life on hold while she figures out if she wants to be with you? You phrase this as if it's a given that if she says "Wanted, I want to be with you", that you will be right there waiting with open arms. If youre willing to put yourself as Plan B regardless of what she does, then why would she choose that path?

In the session I explained my mentality moving forward is to not come to her with anything pertaining to our R for 2 reasons: 1) to give her the time and space she's asking for and 2) because I need to start emotionally detaching from this. I've been trying like hell to save our M thus far (in all the wrong ways, I know!) but regardless, I've been trying to do what I thought was best at the time to save it. And, while I'm going to remain hopeful, I also need to be realistic and essentially start protecting and looking out for myself and preparing for the strong possibility that this doesn't work out. I'd rather start preparing for that now than be blindsided in the future with her informing me that she's 100% out. I've had 6 weeks to grieve over this whole situation so I need to start moving on.I told her I'll wait but I'm not going to wait forever.

I agree that this is kind of what you should be doing. But....I dont understand why youre laying this all out to your W. As V says regularly...."cards, chest, close in any order". If you were trying to start dating someone, you wouldnt be like "Im going to call you every third day so that I appear interested but not TOO interested. Im going to send you flowers after 2 weeks and chocolate after 6. I also want to take you to this special place in a month, etc."

Speak with actions. Just do the things you think are best. You dont need to explain every little detail to her.

In any case....how is GAL going?
And did you meet up with your friend X?

[Wanted1]

I wish you would have posted here first. To me, this makes it very clear that you are spying on her. Sometimes, it's better to take some time, collect your thoughts, and make a plan. Confrontation is just that....confrontation. But it doesnt really mean anything unless you can back it up with clear actions/boundaries. What was the end of result of this, exactly...? It isnt like you know clearly what went on while they were gone. Ive never heard of two people going out for a bike ride to decide to .... stop talking to each other. That feels like a conversation you have where you meet somewhere and go your separate ways....not somewhere when you then have to ride back for however long together. Whether or not they did anything physical on the bike ride isnt that important....it just doesnt make sense that THAT would be how they end contact.

I wasn't intending on spying. Our security camera sends notifications anytime there is activity. I saw a babysitter show up so naturally I got curious.

That said, it is definitely a good thing that she felt comfortable enough with you to share this kind of information.

I felt like it was good thing as well.

Im confused by this statement. I thought she did end it? Whats with the "if"?

I probably didn't explain that in the best way. In our joint session, she started out by telling the ICs what had transpired since the last session. She explained the meeting with OM on Sunday and that I found out about it. She was trying to "justify" her meeting with OM to cut off communication by explaining in front of both me and my IC that her IC, in their last individual session, told her that if she chooses to cut off communication with OM it "should be for her and for her clarity of mind and for no one else." I thought this was sort of weird to explain but I suppose she didn't want me thinking she cut off communication "for me." I don't know... Long story short, in her mind SHE decided to cut off communication with OM for HER own good (not because I wanted her to or for me) and that is why they met up on Sunday -- to tell him it's over until she decided what's going to happen with our M.

Im having some trouble understanding why this is such a 'given' for her. From what I can recall, this woman has had multiple affairs with all kinds of deceit. Why is it that you are going to put your life on hold while she figures out if she wants to be with you? You phrase this as if it's a given that if she says "Wanted, I want to be with you", that you will be right there waiting with open arms. If youre willing to put yourself as Plan B regardless of what she does, then why would she choose that path?

I'd love some suggestions on what to do. I know a lot of other situations here have lasted longer than mine. I think it's safe to say that my W has been flooded with all sorts of feelings that don't just pertain to our M. Dealing with the trauma she's had in her past is also weighing heavily on her. Maybe I'm being naive and hopeful in thinking that it isn't just our M that she's struggling with right now. I'm trying to be the lighthouse and keep the road paved smooth back. But I'd love some suggestions or tips on what to do and/or what I shouldn't continue to do. I'm not willing to be Plan B. I think now that OM is supposedly out of the picture that might help matters. Again, maybe that's wishful thinking and either it won't change a bit or maybe he's truly not out of the picture. Unfortunately, I can't control either of those things. I'm just trying to be AMOAFWL.

I agree that this is kind of what you should be doing. But....I dont understand why youre laying this all out to your W. As V says regularly...."cards, chest, close in any order". If you were trying to start dating someone, you wouldnt be like "Im going to call you every third day so that I appear interested but not TOO interested. Im going to send you flowers after 2 weeks and chocolate after 6. I also want to take you to this special place in a month, etc."

Speak with actions. Just do the things you think are best. You dont need to explain every little detail to her.

I kind of agree I probably shouldn't have said all of that. At the time, I was trying to explain that while I'm willing to wait awhile, I'm not going to wait forever. That I'm going to start preparing to move on on my own. Maybe it didn't come across that way to her, I don't know. But that was my intentions in saying all of that.

In any case....how is GAL going?
And did you meet up with your friend X?

It's going pretty good I'm trying to GAL as much as I can.

I did meet up with her. Had dinner together and it was good to catch up. I vented about my situation a little and she did a good job listening and validating what I had to say. It was kind of nice to talk to a friend about everything.

[LH19]

[I'm not willing to be Plan B. I think now that OM is supposedly out of the picture that might help matters.

W,
Just so you are aware, there doesn't have to be an OM for you to be plan B.

[Wanted1]

[I'm not willing to be Plan B. I think now that OM is supposedly out of the picture that might help matters.

W,
Just so you are aware, there doesn't have to be an OM for you to be plan B.

Yes, I understand that. I guess the part that keeps me "around" so to speak is that she has told me a couple times, including just two days ago in the joint session, that throughout these past 6 weeks she's never once made up her mind that she's leaving 100%. She's clearly leaning that way but she has never said, point blank, I'm done. She admitted she hasn't had the desire to make things work yet. But, like I said previously, I think that desire might have been influenced by OM and me not giving her time and space.

I think I shared a text message exchange in my thread a couple weeks ago where she said she needs time to think everything over so that a decision isn't made based on high emotions one way or the other. That she needs time to think about what exactly she wants.

I'm willing to give her that. I don't think I've done a good job of giving her time and space up until our last joint session. For a variety of reasons. A few being that we work together, still live under the same roof and obviously have 3 little kids we share and need tending to.

I won't wait around for long, but I guess I feel as though I need to give her at least some time for her to really think about what's next. While I do that, I'm going to prepare for the worst but remain a little hopeful that she decides she wants to try to make our M work.

Now, if wanting to R ends up being her decision, she isn't going to just walk back in to my open arms. She is going to have to prove to me that she's 100% committed to making it work. And that isn't going to happen by just her saying she is. She needs to prove that through consistent action.

[SteveLW]

Sometimes Plan A is finding a new Plan A, as LH19 alludes too.

My W's EA ended shortly after I found out about it. But I was still Plan B. Plan A was another guy online that was starting to become EA2.0. And since that wasn't progressing as quickly the next step was dating websites. In fact, I was more like Plan D or E.