LH: Yes, this feeling certainly [censored]. So far in this 'journey', W has seemed to do everything I've asked/wanted, but on her time frame. For example, I told her for us to R, she needs to start sleeping in our bed again. And she did, but it took her a few weeks to get there. Same with MC. I don't know if she wants to take it real slow in order to be sure, or if it's a bit of a power thing. But all of my original 'demands' to work on our M (wedding ring back on, bed, MC, IC, etc) have been met, just not right away. But this is definitely taking the longest. Maybe because she thinks it's the 'final step' for me to believe all our problems are over.
Steve: Most of our conversations are business-like, or else light hearted. The atmosphere in our house has gone from total darkness to light and positive. All of the vibes are good, and amazingly, even our son has started to really improve his attitude and behavior. I believe kids can pick up on such things.
So did things really start to come around in the 4-6 week R range? Yes, patience is the key, but also really hard. And I was doing pretty well until I started thinking about the 'friend zone' issue. I never really thought of that, and it does seem at least possible.
Married: 15yrs Ages: Me 49, W 44 Kids: S12 BD: around 4/14
Again, do not go into overthinking and over analyzing the situation. LEt's say for the sake of argument that the "friend zone" remark is true. What can you do about it? Nothing. So stop worrying about things you have no influence over. You've been through enough $hit already.
So did things really start to come around in the 4-6 week R range? Yes, patience is the key, but also really hard. And I was doing pretty well until I started thinking about the 'friend zone' issue. I never really thought of that, and it does seem at least possible.
I want to avoid answering this. Timing is different in every sitch. My sitch turned around very quickly, that is unusual. Most sitches here go on for months, even years. So timing is not something you should focus on. I would focus on each moment....and making sure you are doing things you need to do. Rather than how much time has passed and what she is doing. Vapo nailed it. You can't control her. So focus on you.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Again, do not go into overthinking and over analyzing the situation. LEt's say for the sake of argument that the "friend zone" remark is true. What can you do about it? Nothing. So stop worrying about things you have no influence over. You've been through enough $hit already.
The only thing I can do about it is decide if I want to leave the M or not. I'm not at that point yet, but I know this can't go on indefinitely.
Married: 15yrs Ages: Me 49, W 44 Kids: S12 BD: around 4/14
you are oozing impatience and nothing is more unattractive than impatience. You are fueling expectations and those unmet expectations breed resentment. And resentment is unattractive by definition. Be a strong manly man, show nothing but love. Women can sense any hidden agenda.
Of course I'm impatient! Again, my expectations are very low. I'm not expecting sex. And in the grand scheme, is my life going to change if she reaches over and holds my hand? Of course not. It's the principle of it I guess. We discussed in MC that 99.99% of the time, I'm the one that inititiated any physical intimacy. And we determined that that did breed resentment, especially since most of those attempts were met with rejection. That's why patience is hard, because even though our sitch is very different now, it brings those bad past memories up. Like Yogi Berra said, 'it's like deja vu all over again'.
Married: 15yrs Ages: Me 49, W 44 Kids: S12 BD: around 4/14
Of course I'm impatient! Again, my expectations are very low. I'm not expecting sex. And in the grand scheme, is my life going to change if she reaches over and holds my hand? Of course not. It's the principle of it I guess. We discussed in MC that 99.99% of the time, I'm the one that inititiated any physical intimacy. And we determined that that did breed resentment, especially since most of those attempts were met with rejection. That's why patience is hard, because even though our sitch is very different now, it brings those bad past memories up. Like Yogi Berra said, 'it's like deja vu all over again'.
You have to put your past behind you. Hit the reset button. Guess what, I was in the same sitch as you. 99.99% of intimacy was initiated by me, and was rejected almost all of the time. One of my questions, and I'll pose it to you, is if intimacy is so important to you then what are you trying to save? Likely after R you will still initiate the majority of the time. You might get rejected occasionally. If that sends you back into the spiral that got you here then you will have learned and improved nothing.
That is what Vapo is telling you. Drop all expectations. You say your expectations are low. But the problem with Nice Guys is we have all kinds of covert contracts. "If I put my hand near hers, then all she has to do is move it over 3 inches to hold mine!" But as Vapo says, women have a 6th sense on this stuff. When you do things, or think things to try to get something out of it, they will invariably pick up on subtle clues and be aware of what is expected.
So stop expecting physicality of any type!! Just go with the flow. Eventually it might happen or it might not, but your expectations are killing you right now.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Of course I'm impatient! Again, my expectations are very low. I'm not expecting sex. And in the grand scheme, is my life going to change if she reaches over and holds my hand? Of course not. It's the principle of it I guess. We discussed in MC that 99.99% of the time, I'm the one that inititiated any physical intimacy. And we determined that that did breed resentment, especially since most of those attempts were met with rejection. That's why patience is hard, because even though our sitch is very different now, it brings those bad past memories up. Like Yogi Berra said, 'it's like deja vu all over again'.
You have to put your past behind you. Hit the reset button. Guess what, I was in the same sitch as you. 99.99% of intimacy was initiated by me, and was rejected almost all of the time. One of my questions, and I'll pose it to you, is if intimacy is so important to you then what are you trying to save? Likely after R you will still initiate the majority of the time. You might get rejected occasionally. If that sends you back into the spiral that got you here then you will have learned and improved nothing.
That is what Vapo is telling you. Drop all expectations. You say your expectations are low. But the problem with Nice Guys is we have all kinds of covert contracts. "If I put my hand near hers, then all she has to do is move it over 3 inches to hold mine!" But as Vapo says, women have a 6th sense on this stuff. When you do things, or think things to try to get something out of it, they will invariably pick up on subtle clues and be aware of what is expected.
So stop expecting physicality of any type!! Just go with the flow. Eventually it might happen or it might not, but your expectations are killing you right now.
But it isn't just my expectations or to try to get something. This is what the MC 'assigned' us to do. W complained that I never did the little touching, flirty stuff. I said she did even less. So MC told us to both begin to open up and begin physical contact. I have and she hasn't. I certainly don't expect sex or huge embraces or anything, but I don't think something little should be out of the question.
Good point about that question. I realize with our personalities, that I'll always be the one to initiate things most of the time. I'm not even hoping for 50/50. 80/20 would be nice.
Married: 15yrs Ages: Me 49, W 44 Kids: S12 BD: around 4/14
