Steve, I'm very sorry for your loss. My prayers and thoughts are with you in this difficult time.
You are an inspiration to many of us. Take care of yourself, too. I'm glad you can stil communicate with W and get some comfort from her during this difficult time.
M:23 T:26 Me:53, Wife: 60 S:18 D:16 filed 7/16 W moved out 4/28/17
Nothing to report negatively, but with the move, and selling the old house, and dealing with a teenager, and all that has been going on, we just haven't been focusing much on it. Haven't done MC since June due to the move. We still do date night/lunch once a week. But that biweekly counseling session was another nice getaway that we are missing. I mentioned the other night that once the house sells we'll have to schedule another MC session. She seemed surprised by that. I explained that I learned a lot about myself and wanted to make sure I was still improving and being the best H and father I could be. She seemed to appreciate that and said that she would be happy to go again once the house sold.
I'm not fully up to speed on your sitch -- in my case after BD W came back for three years. During that time, we slowly stopped doing the "new" things we were doing, mostly due to her decision to stop doing them. At the time I told her 'we're going to get back to the same relationship we had before if we don't take action, and you weren't happy with that relationship".
At the time she told me that she wasn't worried about it, she was happy, blah blah blah. Eventually we got to the same equilibrium we had before and she went wayward again.
I only say that because the things you mention about not focusing on the MR due to other factors (life happens) and taking a break from MC, etc. sound familiar to me. In my case, it was easy to be reassured that "it was fine" in the moment, but really I knew that it wasn't, because it wasn't the *new* relationship that I wanted. It started out that way, but then it started to slide back.
Dynamics between two people reach an equilibrium -- who does what in the relationship, what conflicts are escalated versus what gets swept under the rug, how often you have sex and who initiates, everything about your interactions will find a balance point and more or less stay there. The natural tendency is going to be for it to slide back to what it was before unless you both actively resist that.
The "believe nothing they say" is true of piecing too -- you need to read the situation and employ all your senses. If you feel like you need to get back into an MC session sooner rather than later, do it, even if something else has to fall on the floor as a result.
Acc
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
Me neither but believe it or not I have your threads open and started reading but I am terribly slow at it these days. So one day I will get it done and give you some advice.
Accuray gave you some good advice and his sich is one I am familiar with. Mine not being too much different. Although the one thing I can say is
LOVE is a CHOICE and unless both parties are ALL IN and making that choice, your are likely doomed to failure.
Much of the efforts we do in DB is to remove pressure and increase attraction. Without attraction, we surrender any opportunity for R. Not to mention it is the only thing we have any control over. Sometimes I think we forget that attraction is much more than our looks. As mostly males here, we see attraction as a visual concept. For Ws it is very different.
Steve, I know you realize these things and as stated many times before in this forum, you are a stellar example of how the DB processes do work. I am very happy for you and thankful for all the support that you have extended me as well as the rest of this motley crew.
M 53 W 54, M since 98 D15, D19 8/2013 discovered EA, W maintained contact with OM until 10/14 7/2/17 W said she wanted S, 7/25/17 moved out of MBR 12/17 W says moving out 5/18, W still in home.
I have been in a committed relationship for 8 years now after D from my X.
I believe it is the man's job to be in charge of the sex and romance department. If I initiate and get turned down, I switch gears and start down the romance and seduction path. Focus on being more attractive. DB skills working the whole time. Women like to be surprised. Woman like a challenge. I make it fun. I make her laugh. I make her desire me. I wait until she initiates.
Us men are simple creatures and easily get turned on by the visuals. Woman get turned on by our words and actions.
Remember this.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Thanks everyone. All good feedback and perspectives. I realize that I am not out of the woods and need to continue my personal growth journey. Something that I had not done in a long time.
I think some things I have going for me is:
- Recognizing my NGS and working on it - Doing the right things this time (continuing MC (and we will) etc) - Making my changes permanent - Continuing to focusing on controlling me, not trying to control her - Learning about an applying self-differentiation in marriage - Continuing to recognize my own toxic behavior and 180 on it
So on the first one, while not full blown NGS I definitely had parts of it. And it did a lot to contribute to my sitch.
On the 2nd, after her EA in 2005 I made a lot of changes. Temporarily, but then after a while I allowed myself to slip back on those changes. Mainly because all of my changes had the wrong goal. (Listen up guys, this is applicable to ALL sitches!) My goal was to save my marriage. Once that occurred I gave up the 180s I made to achieve that. I essentially set myself up for another sitch, and the fact that it took 12 years really was a tribute to my W trying to hang on (and employee multiple techniques to try to fix things), but I wasn't doing my part.
So that is why point #3 is so important. None of us are guaranteed having our spouse stay with us no matter what, but as cliche as it sounds, the key to having a better marriage is being a better spouse. And that is something we all need to keep in mind.
And the big part of that is the point about controlling what I can control. Me! Focus on me, my actions, my words, my activities, my priorities. And doing what I can do!
And the self-differentiation piece is not trivial. The more I learned about proper detachment the more I realized that self-differentiation (essentially a healthy state of constant detachment) was of the utmost importance to a healthy relationship. The more research I've done the more I've realized that connection, but not codependency, is what makes for a healthy marriage. The fact that two people can be together, enjoy one another's company, and have a connection unlike a connection with anyone else, but still have a life outside of that relationship (essentially GAL!). Codependency might allow for one or both of those, but requires causes us to be too dependent on whatever we think we are getting from the other person.
For instance in my sitch, I had no connection to my W. We had a SSM, but I had also isolated myself. I had definitely GAL, but a bit too much. Our communication was only logistical, and very infrequent. Any non-logistical conversations we had were very abrasive. The sound of her voice grated me because of the resentment and bitterness I held for her for being a poor housekeeper, and the lack of intimacy. When I was away from her I hardly ever contacted her, or called her to check in. Yet I was dependent on her for other things. Care of our D, etc. In essence, I took her for granted.
Now we have a healthy differentiation. We can go do things with friends and family, separately, and still enjoy it. But we also think of one another and remain in contact. That connection is there. What really makes me feel healthy is that the thought of losing her is no longer terrifying. While it would hurt and I'd be sad, DBing has taught me that I will survive, be okay, and even thrive! (Sometimes I even have pangs of regret, that I didn't let things just happen the way they were headed, in my moments of clarity (when the fear would subside) I would actually get excited about my potential life after D.
But 180s are still something we need to constantly be prepared to engage in. For instance, I recently realized that I was leaving pet care almost solely to my W again.This was a red flag. I often left it to her. This was a big contributor to our lack of connection since I would go to bed, leave all of that to her. She as a procrastinator would wait until 11pm-midnight or later, and then finally go take care of the pets and come to bed. I recognized I was slipping and re instituted my 180 on this. She does pet care in the morning and throughout the day. The least I can do is do it in the evening and at night. Constantly taking stock of such things is so important. And doing things like this goes a long way with her.
One I didn't put on the list is speaking her love language. And not just her main one but her 2nd and 3rd one too! This goes back to doing what YOU can control: you. You can ascertain your spouse's LL and speak it. Regularly. As in trying to speak her top 3 LLs at least 2-3 times a day. Keep that love tank filled up.
Now here is the kicker, and goes back to point #1. I do all of this simply because I love her. No expectations. No covert contracts. It is simply because I love this person so much that I want her to have a happy, fulfilled life. Preferably with me, but if that means she has to leave me to be happy and fulfilled, then I support that as well.
Be the best spouse I can be. Love her the best way I can. Make her wants and needs a priority (note, not the ONLY priority because I know I have to look after my wants and needs as well). And I need to do this list to be the best person I can be and become, not to save my marriage. If it does that, then great. But the goal here is to be the best H, father, citizen, person, church member, employee that I can be. And let the things I can't control fall into place.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
So you are all in on the marriage - pretty typical of an LBS.
Is your wife all in too?
Who can really know? I will say that for 7+ months now her behavior has been consistent. So I think she is all in. All of the wayward behavior is gone. She has made lots of changes and improvements herself.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
