I am sorry but a sense of entitlement about anything is potentially destructive. Ws have a right to what they do or don't do. You keep mentioning that it was assigned to her by the MC as if that somehow is immutable. That feeds into this entitlement mentality.
Look, I don't know your W. Maybe what you are picking up on is that she isn't all in on the MC and that is manifesting itself in the physical touch complaints. But my overall point, which neffer picked up on, is the expectation at this point in your sitch. If it was months from now and she still isn't open to or initiating any physical contact, then yes I would be concerned. But none of us were getting physical touch at this point in our sitches. That is the nature of limbo. Give her time and she if she comes around.
LH, I agree that there is an aspect of marriage that suggest both people are submitting to each other sexually. The Bible even deals with this telling spouses not to withhold sex from each other. But I just feel T's laser focus on it is really setting his sitch back, and he will move forward much better if he gives up that expectation (or boundary if you want to call it that) for now.
Also T, I wasn't suggesting you were being controlling, what I was suggesting is that you are trying to change something that is out of your control.You cannot control if she initiates contact or not. Focusing on what you can't control is a waste of energy.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
I am sorry but a sense of entitlement about anything is potentially destructive. Ws have a right to what they do or don't do. You keep mentioning that it was assigned to her by the MC as if that somehow is immutable. That feeds into this entitlement mentality.
Look, I don't know your W. Maybe what you are picking up on is that she isn't all in on the MC and that is manifesting itself in the physical touch complaints. But my overall point, which neffer picked up on, is the expectation at this point in your sitch. If it was months from now and she still isn't open to or initiating any physical contact, then yes I would be concerned. But none of us were getting physical touch at this point in our sitches. That is the nature of limbo. Give her time and she if she comes around.
LH, I agree that there is an aspect of marriage that suggest both people are submitting to each other sexually. The Bible even deals with this telling spouses not to withhold sex from each other. But I just feel T's laser focus on it is really setting his sitch back, and he will move forward much better if he gives up that expectation (or boundary if you want to call it that) for now.
Also T, I wasn't suggesting you were being controlling, what I was suggesting is that you are trying to change something that is out of your control.You cannot control if she initiates contact or not. Focusing on what you can't control is a waste of energy.
Thanks Steve. It makes sense.
There's no way of knowing for sure what's going on in her mind. Again, so far everything she's saying and doing seems to be moving towards rebuilding our M. Everything except of course the physical contact. And believe me, I'm sure I could be doing more in her eyes as well. But since everything else is positive, I guess that's why I am so focused on that one thing.
I get what you're saying about trying to control things. That's a great point.
Married: 15yrs Ages: Me 49, W 44 Kids: S12 BD: around 4/14
Just so we are clear I am advocating giving it more time. I do have a problem with her not completing the HW.
Where I have changed my stance since I went through my D is that the LBS has just as much power in this then the WW.
Meaning at some point this is working for ME anymore.
Yep. Always in the LBS' power to pull the plug. I've often said, it takes two to make a marriage. One to make a divorce. But it only takes one spouse trying to keep hope for R alive. If the LBS ever gives up and throws in the towel then there is no longer any hope as neither spouse is trying to save the marriage at that point.
Only the LBS in any given sitch knows when that is.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
T, I'm in the school of thought that something does not seem right here. Your W's complete lack of interest in ANY kind of physical touching is very troubling. You are in MC, the C told both of you to pursue physical touches, you are and she is not. We're not talking about sex here, the MC said just to TOUCH each other for crying out loud! Is she so repulsed by you that she can't even bring herself to hold your hand or touch your hand while driving? This is a big red flag to me that your W is not all-in on reconciling, and I don't think it will improve with time. Personally I think you still have a full-blown WAS on your hands, probably actively planning BD 2.0 with an announcement that "I tried everything and it just didn't work." Any advice I give you is going to run counter to what your MC is telling you, but I really think you should go back to DB'ing. Pull back, give her time and space, stop touching her, cut way back on dating and such. If she asks why you're doing this (and I'm sure she will) just say YOU need some time and space to think things over.
I am sorry but a sense of entitlement about anything is potentially destructive.
I don't think he has expressed any kind of sense of entitlement. Keep in mind the purpose of these forums, it is a place where people can safely and securely come to express their feelings and concerns about their M and get input on it. He is simply saying his W won't touch him and he is concerned about it, and personally I think his concerns are 100% legitimate.
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But I just feel T's laser focus on it is really setting his sitch back
People come here to talk about things they can't talk about anywhere else, don't judge them for doing so and don't assume they are focused on that one thing all of the time. He may spend 99% of his time GAL'ing and then come here the other 1% to discuss these issues, that doesn't mean he's got a "laser focus" on the things he's asking about here.
We're not talking about sex here, the MC said just to TOUCH each other for crying out loud! Is she so repulsed by you that she can't even bring herself to hold your hand or touch your hand while driving?
Could I offer an alternative? Again, based on my own experience?
What if T, more like me that we know and in the past, due to NGS tendencies, felt that if his W touched him during the day that meant it was a go for that night. And now she has an innate fear that touching will mean he thinks he has the green light to initiate sex later.
Terapin, this was my W's issue for a longtime. If she gave my physical affection she felt pressured that sex was the likely outcome of that touching. This was due to my issues, that I was so eager to have sex EVERYTHING she did affectionately led to that expectation. Many Ws over the course of time have mentioned this. "Every time I touch you or kiss you leads to you wanting sex."
I believe one of the things that is different this time around is that I can hold her, giver her backrubs, etc without trying for sex. The ironic thing is that this has led to more sex. Weird how it works that way. Lots of non-sexual touching that doesn't lead to sex makes her feel safe enough to open up to more sex. Woman are complex creatures!
Anyway, just a thought.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
I am sorry but a sense of entitlement about anything is potentially destructive.
I don't think he has expressed any kind of sense of entitlement. Keep in mind the purpose of these forums, it is a place where people can safely and securely come to express their feelings and concerns about their M and get input on it. He is simply saying his W won't touch him and he is concerned about it, and personally I think his concerns are 100% legitimate.
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But I just feel T's laser focus on it is really setting his sitch back
People come here to talk about things they can't talk about anywhere else, don't judge them for doing so and don't assume they are focused on that one thing all of the time. He may spend 99% of his time GAL'ing and then come here the other 1% to discuss these issues, that doesn't mean he's got a "laser focus" on the things he's asking about here.
All of this is fair comment. And that is certainly not what I intended, but I can see how my responses could have made T feel that way.
Terapin I apologize. I may have been projecting a bit too much of my old self onto you. I was in a SSM for nearly 19 years and it led to me having some very big hangups in that department. I should have expressed that better than I did.
Thanks AS for the 2x4!
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
I really think you should go back to DB'ing. Pull back, give her time and space, stop touching her, cut way back on dating and such. If she asks why you're doing this (and I'm sure she will) just say YOU need some time and space to think things over.
WW H(me): 53 W: 48 T: 27 M: 22 S: 18 Piecing since 03/2016 Saw the light in the storm
