Whirlwind of Hurt 4

[LH19]

I dont want W to be in another R, I don't want W to be in another MR, I dont want to share my kids with any OM. I dont want my kids to call another man Daddy. What if I die, wouldn't that happen? I want to go ballistic on OM and W. I want W to climb into a hole and rot, I don't want her to do better than me in life, I want her to fail, she doesn't want to be in this family so she is an enemy of this family, etc, etc, etc.

TF,

Let's look at these one at a time. Tough one first. Your W is going to date and have $ex. Just the reality of it. If you could ever get the truth out of them this is why they do it because they think there is something better out there. My ex told me she wants those butterfly in her stomach feelings again. Keep in mind most men want to date younger girls, most men will want nothing to do with your three young kids and I think 1/3 of men over 40 have ED. I am dating now and talking to woman and they indicate that thy were shocked at the selection of available men. They are either broke, out of shape or creepy and stalkerish. That is going to greatly reduce the dating pool for her. I just read in a book I am reading that is way easier for a middle aged man to find a suitable mate then a woman.

I am 99% sure your kids are not going to call anyone else Daddy. Again, most likely no one wants the job. You and your ex will make it clear to the new guy that your kids need a father. Your bond will be so close with your kids that they would never dream of calling someone else Daddy.

Again odds are you are going to do better. You are doing the work and I feel you will continue to do so after the D. In terms of long-term happiness the odds are stacked in your favor. Read Accuracy, Anotherstander, JRUSS's stories, they are doing way better then their exs. Karma is going to bite her in the a$$ at some point. It is a universal law just like gravity.

If you die you won't be around so you'll have no idea what's going on.

I get it dude! I had all the same thoughts but the bottom line is most of these thoughts never come to fruition accept for the dating. To be honest with you she has to go through that to realize she made a big mistake and the grass isn't greener on the other side.

I would bet more on the fact that at some point she wants to comeback and you will not want her back because you have already moved on.

[SteveLW]

Let's look at these one at a time. Tough one first. Your W is going to date and have $ex. Just the reality of it. If you could ever get the truth out of them this is why they do it because they think there is something better out there. My ex told me she wants those butterfly in her stomach feelings again. Keep in mind most men want to date younger girls, most men will want nothing to do with your three young kids and I think 1/3 of men over 40 have ED. I am dating now and talking to woman and they indicate that thy were shocked at the selection of available men. They are either broke, out of shape or creepy and stalkerish. That is going to greatly reduce the dating pool for her. I just read in a book I am reading that is way easier for a middle aged man to find a suitable mate then a woman.

This is outstanding perspective and narrative. My W's chosen OM, while younger, was so deficient I couldn't believe she ever saw anything in him. The only thing he had going for him was he is a good singer. But he was a divorced felon, lived with his elderly father, had no job, was driving a 2001 Pontiac Sunfire. Had started a business, under the table, to detail cars and his only advertising was word of mouth and Facebook. Further he was 18 years her junior, and my W is an extremely conservative woman. It would have been so interesting to see how she dealt with someone that had such different values and likes.

But he had one thing going for him....he wasn't me. So while in every other area of life I was off the chart more desirable, she fixated on that one thing.

I remember telling her after I discovered the EA, and did a background check on this loser, "I can just imagine you bringing him to meet your dad." Her dad would have excoriated this guy, and I can't imagine how hard he would have come down on her.

But again, at the time, she didn't care anything about that. All she cared about was that he wasn't me....and he was giving her attention.

[Twofeet]

I was thinking to myself that W doesn't really initiate conversation anymore. It is usually me asking prodding questions to get her to open up and talk. I am the one who is being pleasant and treating her like a welcomed guest or a bratty little sister to get her to lighten up and relax. This morning as usual I initiated the good mornings, then I decided to stay quiet and not instigate conversation. It was as if she read my mind and she started asking me questions trying to get me to open up. I was very careful because it felt like she was trying to talk about R without talking about it. She wanted to know what I thought about my sis getting married and what I thought about as my wife put it "her marriage counseling and sh!t." W thinks that if you need MC before a marriage you probably shouldn't get married in some cases I would agree. Anyway, I said I am very happy for sis and its about time she finally found someone she finds worth marrying. Hopefully they will have kids as our kids are asking if their Aunt will have babies now so they can have more cousins. As far as MC I said I talked to sis about this and she said that they went to MC not so much for their own issues, but to build proper communication skills and tools they would need to use to build a strong marriage to prevent problems down the road. Sis said the minor problems they had were resolved as a byproduct of this. The MC for my sis was per-mariatal box her and her STBH wanted to check off to build a happy M because no one wants to go into a M with the thought of D as a possibility. W asked if I think it will last. (At this point I am worried about what I am about to say) I said I think so, M and Love is a choice, if they want it to last they will work on making it last. Its not like they are 20 or 21, they both have some experience under their belt so they have the tools to make it work and they are choosing to make it work.

W then wanted to talk about a relative of ours they we choose to not communicate with anymore. She doesn't want this person in our children's lives because he is a bad influence, I am in agreement. (Here is where I get nervous as it relates to our sitch, I want to show my integrity so I air my laundry) We talk about how this person left his W for an EA that he is still with 2 years later. I said I saw that EA unfold before my eyes. I said someday I will bury the hatchet for the other grievances this relative caused upon me, but I do not want this relative or their influence in my children's lives. W asked if they will marry, I say I don't know and I don't care. I won't be attending that wedding. She says you really don't like his OW do you. I said no I do not. I had enough run ins with her and had to deal with her in my industry to know she is not a good person. I say this relative is not a good person to have in our life. I tell W a story about a childhood friend whose Dad was having a PA with OW and built a nice big house for my friend himself and OW and her kids. The whole time his W thought it was there future dream home. Couple of months into the move he gave her the boot, then moved OW in and married her. It was really hard on my friend and because of his issues with this we became distant. I also really liked his Dad and thought he was a cool guy growing up as a kid, after this I had no respect for him and really wouldn't hang out with my friend unless he was at his Mom's place. I told W I remember you said the other day from now on you will only look to my actions and not my words, but I hope you hear what I am saying when I say I stand for our kids. We are fully on the same page and I don't want this relative in their lives.

As I said it was her poking and prodding, when I would try to ask prodding questions she would just give a short little answer such as I don't know, I want to know what you think. She knows where I stand on EA, and PA. We both used to be on the same page. I don't like talking about this with her because I don't want to drive her further away, but she brought it up. Heck I don't even know if there still is a OM, it may have been the start of a EA and my confrontation may have shut it down until she is D. She could also be full on into a EA or PA with OM, or even another OM. Don't know anymore and don't really care at this point. She has had plenty of opportunity to prove me false and has never done it. I just need to assume the worst and hope for the best.

[SteveLW]

TF, a couple of small corrections.

First, if you think she is asking a leading question (like the one about your sister) the DBing rule is to deflect it. "That is a good question, but I haven't really considered how I feel about that. I will have to think about it and get back to you later."

When she does just flat out start talking about something, remember validations techniques. "Hmmm, that is interesting, how did that make you feel?" "I can understand why you'd feel that way."

The story about your friend was a nice story. But what was your motivation in telling it? What was your expectation for the effect on your W?

I would continue to not be the initiator of discussions. Remember you are the lighthouse, she comes to you. When she does you are pleasant, upbeat, present. Answer her questions in as few words as possible. And validate anything she says.

[Twofeet]

TF, a couple of small corrections.

First, if you think she is asking a leading question (like the one about your sister) the DBing rule is to deflect it. "That is a good question, but I haven't really considered how I feel about that. I will have to think about it and get back to you later."

When she does just flat out start talking about something, remember validations techniques. "Hmmm, that is interesting, how did that make you feel?" "I can understand why you'd feel that way."

The story about your friend was a nice story. But what was your motivation in telling it? What was your expectation for the effect on your W?

I would continue to not be the initiator of discussions. Remember you are the lighthouse, she comes to you. When she does you are pleasant, upbeat, present. Answer her questions in as few words as possible. And validate anything she says.

Steve,

Without making too many excuses I definitely need to go back and read DR again. I really wish MWD had it in an e-book version. I have to hide my book at work to read at lunch. I was initiating discussions to be friendly and open her up and make her relaxed ie trying to not push. Sounds like you recommend I rethink my approach.

The motivation in my story as related to the convo with my W was that I was trying to relate an experience where I took action since this sitch is new for me. Friend's Dad was in a PA which is wrong, I distanced myself from his dad because I find him to be a bad influence because of this. My relative ended his marriage for an EA which is wrong and I am keeping my kids away from him for this and other reasons. I guess where it can be misinterpreted or look hypocritical, now that I look back on it, is that I won't and can't keep my kids away from W if she is in a EA/PA. Who knows even if she see this contradiction. I was just trying to demonstrate integrity, and past actions. Sometimes this whole sitch feels like walking in a minefield blindfolded.

As I have mentioned recently she says the only truth she will believe in now is my actions because she doesn't trust me or my words anymore. Funny, I am not sure how it got flipped on its head that I am the untrustworthy one.

[Twofeet]

I dont want W to be in another R, I don't want W to be in another MR, I dont want to share my kids with any OM. I dont want my kids to call another man Daddy. What if I die, wouldn't that happen? I want to go ballistic on OM and W. I want W to climb into a hole and rot, I don't want her to do better than me in life, I want her to fail, she doesn't want to be in this family so she is an enemy of this family, etc, etc, etc.

TF,

Let's look at these one at a time. Tough one first. Your W is going to date and have $ex. Just the reality of it. If you could ever get the truth out of them this is why they do it because they think there is something better out there. My ex told me she wants those butterfly in her stomach feelings again. Keep in mind most men want to date younger girls, most men will want nothing to do with your three young kids and I think 1/3 of men over 40 have ED. I am dating now and talking to woman and they indicate that thy were shocked at the selection of available men. They are either broke, out of shape or creepy and stalkerish. That is going to greatly reduce the dating pool for her. I just read in a book I am reading that is way easier for a middle aged man to find a suitable mate then a woman.

I am 99% sure your kids are not going to call anyone else Daddy. Again, most likely no one wants the job. You and your ex will make it clear to the new guy that your kids need a father. Your bond will be so close with your kids that they would never dream of calling someone else Daddy.

Again odds are you are going to do better. You are doing the work and I feel you will continue to do so after the D. In terms of long-term happiness the odds are stacked in your favor. Read Accuracy, Anotherstander, JRUSS's stories, they are doing way better then their exs. Karma is going to bite her in the a$$ at some point. It is a universal law just like gravity.

If you die you won't be around so you'll have no idea what's going on.

I get it dude! I had all the same thoughts but the bottom line is most of these thoughts never come to fruition accept for the dating. To be honest with you she has to go through that to realize she made a big mistake and the grass isn't greener on the other side.

I would bet more on the fact that at some point she wants to comeback and you will not want her back because you have already moved on.

LH19,

The dating and sex bother me a lot. If I was more centered it wouldn't, but it does. W doesn't know it as I don't show it. I have the attitude and mentality that I am best she will ever have, no guy is going to top me. Which I think is a good mindset to have, its just not the OM that bothers me its her. I think it bothers me so much because we started young and have only known each other. Did the whole traditional wait till marriage thing. Knowing her that long, and at that young of an age it may not be a surprise that I became too attached. Her identity became apart of me, it wasn't just me and her it was we, but probably we at an unhealthy level. Since I hold myself to such a high standard I expect her to do the same as well. Her dating and having sex with other men feels so foul in my head. I am too possessive over something and someone that is not mine to possess. I need to get past this and it is one of the things IC and I have been working on to improve myself.
I think you mentioned in another thread on the post-D forum you read Corey Wayne's book. I bought it a couple weeks ago because I saw some YouTube vids of him. While I feel like he is too casual in his attitude ie his 3Hs, he does have a good mindset about healthy relationships. His book has been helping me readjust my thinking.

Thanks for all your advice. I really appreciate it.

[Again18]

TF- that was a hard read for a lot of us. The way you put this to words though and the way you are expressing yourself here to all of us, really says a lot about you and your character. I know we all make mistakes and when put in a situation like this we have evaluate ourselves and sometimes come to some pretty difficult realizations about ourselves. But we can tell that you are a great guy, good father and a loving husband that does not deserve what you are going through. But worst of all your kids don't deserve this. Yes, your wife is selfish and s miserable person right now. But this is when the real work starts. If you hold bitterness in your heart she will only continue to justify her actions. Leave the bitterness there and work with it, because that's ok, but don't let her see it. Don't give her the satisfaction of justifying her actions. Now is the time to really limit your contact with her but when you see or hear from her be as happy as you possible can be. When she sees how happy you are, which is all she wants is to be happy herself imagine what will go through her mind. Is he really that happy without me? Why? About a week after I had left the house and was living on my own, I would come and see the kids in the evening times. I smiled, laughed and played with the kids and I was cheerful and kind to my wife. She said you seem happy. Yes, Happy is a state of mind and although I suffered greatly from the loss I was going through I knew I was on the right side of things. Be the man she always wanted but don't pursue her don't let her know you are available to be pursued just be. Don't be quick to engage and don't talk about the relationship. She will just bounce back into justify mode. Keep working on yourself GAL GAL GAL. You want her but you don't need her, that is how you frame it in your mind. In the end you may decide you don't want her and that is okay too. But right now you do. Don't let yourself try and imagine what is going through her mind. She was as hurt about your kids as you were. It's said that she begs your daughter to not be mad at her, when your daughter has every right to be mad. After all your wife feels like she is entitled to have all of these negative feelings about you, and that is sad, that is so so sad. Sad that she can be mad at you and frustrated and feel like you are the blame for everything but her daughter is justified in being angry is not entitled to that because oh my gosh that is going to hurt poor mommy. I digress, but it hurts all of us, we feel what you feel TF and we pray for you and your family everyday. God Bless you and your family.

[LH19]

The dating and sex bother me a lot. If I was more centered it wouldn't, but it does.

When she moves out you will become more centered. I promise you!

W doesn't know it as I don't show it. I have the attitude and mentality that I am best she will ever have, no guy is going to top me.

That is the exact mentality you need to have! She will figure it out, the only question will it be too late?

Her identity became apart of me, it wasn't just me and her it was we, but probably we at an unhealthy level.

Same thing happened to my EX and I, we did everything together. Other couples were jealous of all the things we did together and as a family. Looking back now, maybe it was too much. She claims at some point she lost her identity.

I am too possessive over something and someone that is not mine to possess.

This must change. As Corey Wayne always says "you should love in a way that the other person feels free". I think the number 1 thing I learned through all this was the only person I can control is myself.

I think you mentioned in another thread on the post-D forum you read Corey Wayne's book. I bought it a couple weeks ago because I saw some YouTube vids of him. While I feel like he is too casual in his attitude ie his 3Hs, he does have a good mindset about healthy relationships. His book has been helping me readjust my thinking.

In my opinion it is a must read for any man alive. Even if you don't agree with everything, what he teaches works.

Thanks for all your advice. I really appreciate it.

It's my pleasure. I like how you handle yourself. You will get through this and thrive one way or another.

Stay strong my friend.

[Ready2Change]

I was where you are. I understand. Sorry you had to go through that.

Looking back, S7 (Who is now 18) had the most emotional reaction. He was angry. He is now the most healthy. We are emotional beings.


Remember that everything will be OK, whichever path W chooses. Just keep loving your kids.

You can handle anything now.

[Twofeet]

So yesterday MiL (FiL was supposed to come but he bailed and MiL nor W would talk about it /shrug) came over to hand out candy at our house so W & I could take the kids trick-or-treating. MiL shows up and W says to me, "you and MiL go ahead and take the kids I am going to stay home." Mentally I am thinking oh no I am not dealing with this B.S. you are handing out so I told wife "Are you kidding me? We are going as a family, this isn't about us, we are doing this for the kids." So she backed down and went. She later said she had a good time and was glad she went. To me this just kind of ties into a convo we had the other day where D8 found out from W they would be with W for Thanksgiving. D8 wants to have me over as well to have Thanksgiving as a family. I say its your moms scheduled holiday I am not sure she wants to have me over. D8 gets upset so W says yeah we can do Thanksgiving together, but gives me a look. After D8 walks away she starts backing out to me saying she has to see if she wants to go to friends or family for Thanksgiving, not sure she wants to do anything with me or at her house. I say just let me know so I know whether to cook anything or make other plans. She says I shouldn't say that W doesn't want me over. I tell her its the truth I am not going to lie to the kids. Her point is that I should be softer on my approach, which I agree I should, but hey, they know W wants the D thanks to her own admission. I tell wife I wont lie to kids, but I will work on my approach. W says if I keep giving them the harsh truth they are going to turn against me because it puts W in a bad light and they won't turn on their Mom, just me. So there is some truth to what she says, but wow there is also a lot of fantasy. Selfish, playing the victim and not owning up to her actions, and lying to the kids to cover. However, yes I do need to be softer with my answers because they are just kids and I tend to come off as blunt and harsh in general (another thing I should 180). If down the road they turn on their mom it should be because the R between them and W broke down. It should NOT be because of something I started. That is wrong, I know it, and I need to be aware of it.

Right now it feels like I am on deck. Its almost my turn at bat. Feeling mixed emotions, sometimes I want my W to stay and sometimes I want her gone yesterday. I am glad this limbo is only a little more than 2 months, I can't imagine the in house limbo people go through that is longer. W is going out tomorrow night for dinner and drinks with gal pal and 2 other ladies from oot who they used to work with. W is so overspent she is saying she has to borrow money from parents just to cover expenses, but apparently not too overspent to have a night on the town again. In the past she would binge eat to make her happy as a coping mechanism to deal with her feeling down or depressed. Spending was apart of that as well. Now she just doesn't eat much anymore and she is binge spending. Buying things for her house she doesn't need cause she is taking the same thing from our house. At the rate she is going I am not sure I could afford to reconcile if she wanted to come back. I hope she OK, she doesn't tell me anymore about how she is doing mentally, but I am watching her actions and I am worried. She is smart enough to be OK, but I feel really bad for her and its hard not being able to do anything. I see how she looks at me and the distance she creates between us. Its just hard knowing there is nothing I can actively do for her other than stand an listen. Being the lighthouse is a lonely endeavor.