Devastated

[SteveLW]

I think it is VERY important to not confuse this with love. My guess is that this is fulfilling some physical need for her. For example, if she is chatting with some other guy online somewhere but cant or doesnt want to meet up with him, she could be using you for that physical release without that emotional connection. Or maybe shes meeting him occasionally and is "more turned on" and knows you are available. Theres not really any way to know at this point. All I know is that it may not be about her emotional connection with you, so pinning your hopes and expectations of that onto the act is probably going to wind up hurting you later.

THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

pie, women, unlike men, do not equate love and sex. Men, as seen in this quote from you:

I asked her if she still loved me and she said yes but just can't live with me any longer like this she needed to move forward not move on and that I also needed to move forward and get myself better . I know that my wife loves me she has proven it - we made love the night before she left and we have seen each other 8 time since she left and have made love all 8 times - I know my wife and I think women in general and can't imagine a women that walks out the door would do that if she didn't really love that person.

equate the two. "If she has sex with me she must love me."

I am guessing you haven't read too many relationship books, or done much research on male-female relationships. Women know within the first minute of meeting a man whether or not she'd ever be willing to have sex with him. Are you going to argue that a woman falls in love with a man in the first minute of having met him? I do not think so.

Woman equate love to other things. Is he kind and gentle with me? Does he take care of me? Does he do things for me?

You should read 5 Love Languages. Almost every guy has Physical Touch as either his primary or secondary love language.

Women typically have the other 4 above physical touch. Their LL is typically words of affirmation, or acts of service, or quality time or receiving gifts.

Look up the 5 love languages, and you can take the test.

Anyway, Amoafwl is giving you some great advice here. Most women only fall in love with men they respect. Respect breeds attraction which breeds love for most women. Do you think she respects you right now?

[AnotherStander]

She said that I shouldn't be that she has dropped hints several times over the years - I just didn't hear them.

Probably true, you probably read about that in DR. Please understand one thing- you need abundant patience right now. She clearly did not get to this point quickly, it's been years in the making. And reversing it will likely take a year or more as well. Give her time and space. Respect her wishes. You've got a lot to work on, so get busy!

I have to admit that I have not been the husband that I should have been or father for that matter. I have been suffering from depression for most my adult life mainly from a sexual assault when I was 18. I meet my wife when I was 19 and we both fell in love and I thought that I could put this behind me and that my new found love would get me through . I never said it out loud in 32 years , in fact i thought that if I didn't admit that it had happened that it didn't but over the years it ate me up inside and I have had anger issues all of my adult life which wasn't present my first 18. I have lashed out over the years - verbally abused my wife and kids - I'd say mean hurtful things that I didn't mean but it was the only way i could deal with it inside.

Sounds to me like you have been mean and abusive, and have been that way a long time. I wouldn't try to "explain it away" as being because of something that happened way back when you were 18 because you're making it sound like you are not responsible for your actions. But you are, and you are also responsible for correcting your faults (doing 180's in DB terms). I was physically, verbally and mentally abused by my father throughout my life until I finally cut all contact with him in adulthood. It was traumatic, but I have never blamed any of my personal shortfalls on that because I make my own decisions. In fact I have gone out of my way to rise up and be better than that, especially with my kids.

losing a business , going bankrupt, losing our house death of family members and everything we owned. I grew deeper into my depression and my wife also became depressed . I started self medicating myself and over the years so did my wife sometime with me . Over the last several months she decided to better herself and stopped - lost weight , started going out with friends more often but I was not there yet I dove deeper into self medication and depression until I could not go out in public without mean angry feelings and had no filter on what I said in public.

Kudos to your W for rising above that mess and making something better of herself! You should be very proud of her. Now it's your turn, and you have a great example to follow!

I know that I should have heard and seen the signs but I guess I was waiting for someone to put their arms around me and tell me that I need help and needed to change but never got that .

But even if she had done that I doubt you would have done anything other than shut down on her. Unfortunately it takes BD for most of us to get about the business of fixing our issues.

I know that my wife loves me she has proven it - we made love the night before she left and we have seen each other 8 time since she left and have made love all 8 times - I know my wife and I think women in general and can't imagine a women that walks out the door would do that if she didn't really love that person.

You'd be surprised. She loves you, but she's not "in love" with you. And there's the problem. She's got to fall back in love, and that's going to take time, and it's going to take a lot of effort on your part changing your bad behavior. You've got to change, and you've got to show her consistent changes over a long period of time for her to change her mind.

I'm so confused and hurt that she didn't after 32 years with me sit me down and tell me how unhappy she really was

She did. She tried telling you for years, and that didn't work so BD is the ultimate form of telling you.

I know I've really hurt my wife but after all those years together I can't imagine that she is not willing to work together on this.

Again, she tried. In her own way she tried. She didn't try in your way, she tried in her way and you didn't recognize it. BD for her is the absolute last resort. She is so desperate to get out of what she sees as a horrible, abusive marriage that she had no other choice. Try and see it from HER point of view. Even now you're still looking at it only in terms of what YOU want and need.

She made no promises and told me that the only way that we could ever be together again was I had to let her go totally to ever have a chance to get her back.

She's right.

I've read Michelle's book The Divorce Remedy and am trying to put one foot in front of the other and try the Last Resort but it is so hard .

DB'ing will be the hardest thing you've ever done in your life. But it is your best chance.There's no easy way out of this. There are no magic tricks. It's just good old fashioned hard work and dedication.

[pie51]

Thanks everyone for all your comments and advise . I am going to counselling and will be continuing for a long time.
I have not used since she left Cold turkey as they say is the only way in my opinion. On the OM - I am 100% positive that is not the case in my situation- I know most are not going to believe it but really that is not the issue here. I'm also reading several anger management books an i have read the 5 love languages also. and your right BD that is her last resort so I'm going to keep reading and moving forward myself and become that man she fell in love with . Letting her go will be the hardest thing I've ever done but I understand that is the only way and since I do love her and am in love with her I only want her to be happy - I just can't let my anger hurt her or my family any longer.

[AnotherStander]

Pie, that sounds great, you're on the right path! Next I would suggest coming up with a list of GAL activities you want to try and make yourself do those things. It is very, very difficult at first. I know right now you'd rather curl up in a corner but you've got to get out and GAL to help yourself recuperate and get your mind off of things. Each time you go do something it gets easier and easier. Get in touch with old friends. Make new ones. Lift weights. Run. Play golf. Fly a kite, fly an R/C plane, build a model, volunteer at a food bank, join a poetry club, build houses with Habitat for Humanity. In short do anything... except make excuses!

Next make a list of 180's. This list is only for you, don't let anyone else see it. Refer to it as a reminder of what your goals are so you can keep working on them.

One critical thing Michele mentions in her books is the importance of actions. WAS simply do not believe anything you say. It all sounds like empty promises that they've heard a thousand times before. So don't SAY, DO. At first your 180's will seem to her like "tricks to get her back", so that's why it's important to stick with them. Over time she will come to believe your changes are real.

Good luck and keep posting!

[FlySolo]

Hi Pie

I can see you've received some good advice. I would second the advice to concentrate on healing yourself. That is something you have control over. Your W does not sound like a monster. But, it would have taken a lot of courage on her part to leave, and now that she has done it, she has momentum. Any pursuit on your part will fuel that momentum.

Use this time to work on you. Maybe, she will see the positive changes ... though she will want to know that its permanent ... and you can only show her that through consistency ... and she may come back. But she might not. Either way you will be a better version of you.

One good thing is that there is NO other man - never has been and she even stated that the thought of that was gross. I asked her if she still loved me and she said yes but just can't live with me any longer like this she needed to move forward not move on and that I also needed to move forward and get myself better . I know that my wife loves me she has proven it - we made love the night before she left and we have seen each other 8 time since she left and have made love all 8 times

I would like to put a slightly different perspective on this. Many years ago, after D8 was born, I went into what I can only describe as a kind of functional post natal depression. On the face of it we led a near perfect life. But simmering under the surface, I was questioning nearly all my life choices. How did I end up living in the suburb? How did I end up working in a cubicle when I wanted to be an artist? How did I end up, how did I end up, how did I end up ...

During this time, I would sometimes initiate intimacy (out guilt for the things I was thinking, to check if there was still a spark, and yes, just to make sure he was still attached to me). Throughout all this, I knew I loved him and that I loved our life. It was just sadness and I got over it eventually.

In any case, a slightly different view. I don't think your W is having a PA, though there may be an EA - a person she shares her thoughts with who has enabled her leaving because it suits their own agenda. In the end it doesn't matter though. She has left, and you now have to get on with the business of getting stronger.

Detach, 180, GAL. You will hear that mantra repeated again and again because it really is the only way to get through this.

Good luck.