Help Please! 5

[SteveLW]

Remember, non-sexual touching. That will go a long way towards her feeling comfortable again. I heard many of the same things you did early on in my sitch. I incorporated touch charges from another marriage experts plan (obviously not DBing). Those really seemed to help a lot. And I still use them today. And will use them for the rest of our marriage.

Terapin, you've now received this answer from her at least twice (maybe more). So I would let it lie from now on. I know you've been spending a lot of time thinking about this. Most of us agree that it is way too early to put that much pressure on it, even if we disagree about how important it should be in general.

And do not discount what she said about hugging and sleeping it the marital bed again! That is huge. I think you yourself would only need to go back a few weeks to realize that it seemed very improbable of happening. Give her the time she needs to keep working towards more affection and intimate touching.

Yep. I at least got my answer (again) from her. And ya, I constantly try to remind myself of where we were 3 months ago. I won't bring it up again for a while.

This is also the 2nd or 3rd she's brought up these 'resentments'. It's hard to understand how she's still holding onto things from a decade ago (one of which I don't even remember happening). It's also hard to understand how she's going to get over them, since she obviously hasn't over the last 10 years. Hopefully MC can offer some advice.

My W has a terrible memory. She can't remember someone told her 20 minutes ago. She has to write everything down when someone relays a message because she has trouble remembering what she was told.

However, she can tell you when I was mean to hear in April 1999. She can tell you something I said that was insensitive 15 years ago. She can tell you how I made her feel when I came across indifferent at times while we were still dating.

Hurts, resentments, disappointments are all things humans have a really tough time getting over. Especially women when they are hurt by men, and certain personality types.

If it comes in in MC, take the opportunity that you cannot go back and fix those things, you can't do them over again. However, you can work on learning from those things she remembers, and resolve to do better in the future. My only caution is to make sure your actions are consistent with that resolution, and that you remain consistent in those types of 180s.

For me, T, being a man related to rejection was a big step forward. My NGS tendencies made me feel entitled, and I would remove emotional connection due to lack of physical connection. And I would get passive-aggressive due to me "hurt". One of the biggest 180s I've made is to be consistent in my treatment of her no matter what happens. Reverting to NGS behaviors because you are pouting over your wants not getting fulfilled will set you back faster than anything.

A big, bald Texas doctor that has his own TV show cause it being a "right fighter". Someone that would rather be right ("the MC said she should do this!") than happy. That term, right fighter, was a huge epiphany for me.

[Terapin]

Remember, non-sexual touching. That will go a long way towards her feeling comfortable again. I heard many of the same things you did early on in my sitch. I incorporated touch charges from another marriage experts plan (obviously not DBing). Those really seemed to help a lot. And I still use them today. And will use them for the rest of our marriage.

Terapin, you've now received this answer from her at least twice (maybe more). So I would let it lie from now on. I know you've been spending a lot of time thinking about this. Most of us agree that it is way too early to put that much pressure on it, even if we disagree about how important it should be in general.

And do not discount what she said about hugging and sleeping it the marital bed again! That is huge. I think you yourself would only need to go back a few weeks to realize that it seemed very improbable of happening. Give her the time she needs to keep working towards more affection and intimate touching.

Yep. I at least got my answer (again) from her. And ya, I constantly try to remind myself of where we were 3 months ago. I won't bring it up again for a while.

This is also the 2nd or 3rd she's brought up these 'resentments'. It's hard to understand how she's still holding onto things from a decade ago (one of which I don't even remember happening). It's also hard to understand how she's going to get over them, since she obviously hasn't over the last 10 years. Hopefully MC can offer some advice.

My W has a terrible memory. She can't remember someone told her 20 minutes ago. She has to write everything down when someone relays a message because she has trouble remembering what she was told.

However, she can tell you when I was mean to hear in April 1999. She can tell you something I said that was insensitive 15 years ago. She can tell you how I made her feel when I came across indifferent at times while we were still dating.

Hurts, resentments, disappointments are all things humans have a really tough time getting over. Especially women when they are hurt by men, and certain personality types.

If it comes in in MC, take the opportunity that you cannot go back and fix those things, you can't do them over again. However, you can work on learning from those things she remembers, and resolve to do better in the future. My only caution is to make sure your actions are consistent with that resolution, and that you remain consistent in those types of 180s.

For me, T, being a man related to rejection was a big step forward. My NGS tendencies made me feel entitled, and I would remove emotional connection due to lack of physical connection. And I would get passive-aggressive due to me "hurt". One of the biggest 180s I've made is to be consistent in my treatment of her no matter what happens. Reverting to NGS behaviors because you are pouting over your wants not getting fulfilled will set you back faster than anything.

A big, bald Texas doctor that has his own TV show cause it being a "right fighter". Someone that would rather be right ("the MC said she should do this!") than happy. That term, right fighter, was a huge epiphany for me.

Damn, that sounds so much like my W and I that it's a little creepy!

When she started talking about them yesterday, all I basically did was listen, validate, and say that there's nothing I can do to change those things. It's funny too because when things that she's done that I resent come up, her reply is always like 'I can't change things from the past. I'm human. I make mistakes. etc'. But that doesn't seem to work when I say it! But to be honest, I don't know if I ever sincerely acknowleged and apologized for those things.

W did say about how she's still not sure if my 'changes' are permanent, or if I'll fall back into the way I was at the time of these resentments. That's fair. If she wasn't seemingly making changes with herself too, I probably wouldn't even care. But she is bettering herself as well.

[ovrrnbw]

Good progress T. You're in a time where many things are changing with you, your W, your MR. She shouldn't be sure yet, neither should you. Good attitude you have. My only advice is to not get too "clinical" throughout this process. We go to so much counseling, read so many books, post on here and then we become "experts" when we need to be a spouse first.

It's funny too because when things that she's done that I resent come up, her reply is always like 'I can't change things from the past. I'm human. I make mistakes. etc'. But that doesn't seem to work when I say it!

This is where the spouse who wants to make the MR work sticks to their foundation, their morals and doesn't try to "win" the argument IMO. When I read the 5 Love Languages, his advice was never to add to the conflict, but to continue speaking their language. To me, this is similar to being the lighthouse. To use a sports analogy "lead by example". She knows that she is taking on this issue but not giving at all. Give her time, be patient.

Good luck T.

[Terapin]

Good progress T. You're in a time where many things are changing with you, your W, your MR. She shouldn't be sure yet, neither should you. Good attitude you have. My only advice is to not get too "clinical" throughout this process. We go to so much counseling, read so many books, post on here and then we become "experts" when we need to be a spouse first.

It's funny too because when things that she's done that I resent come up, her reply is always like 'I can't change things from the past. I'm human. I make mistakes. etc'. But that doesn't seem to work when I say it!

This is where the spouse who wants to make the MR work sticks to their foundation, their morals and doesn't try to "win" the argument IMO. When I read the 5 Love Languages, his advice was never to add to the conflict, but to continue speaking their language. To me, this is similar to being the lighthouse. To use a sports analogy "lead by example". She knows that she is taking on this issue but not giving at all. Give her time, be patient.

Good luck T.

Thanks Ovr. Each 'step' in this journey is certainly a challenge and a bit scary. Digging into past resentments is going to be really tough, but so was our first MC session, the first time we hung out together after BD, etc, etc. It's just another step in the process. And I really have no control over her getting past those things or not.

[ballast]

Resentments and anger were the very few words my W said to me about our MR and why she left.

Thing is for the resentments she had towards me were they truly things I could have done differently/better? Heck did she even mention them at the time in a way that I could understand how they made her feel? She might have resented that I was a better parent, had a better job, got promoted faster, handled stress better, had a better relationship with my parents...could any of those been something that I could have changed? were any of those truly detrimental to her?

I struggle myself to recall myself being resentful towards her for anything. was I just oblivious? did I just not not let stuff get to me as quickly?

somewhere in a successful long term MR the idea of forgiveness and by extension the letting go of resentments is essential else no relationship has a chance of surviving a lifetime.

[Terapin]

Resentments and anger were the very few words my W said to me about our MR and why she left.

Thing is for the resentments she had towards me were they truly things I could have done differently/better? Heck did she even mention them at the time in a way that I could understand how they made her feel? She might have resented that I was a better parent, had a better job, got promoted faster, handled stress better, had a better relationship with my parents...could any of those been something that I could have changed? were any of those truly detrimental to her?

I struggle myself to recall myself being resentful towards her for anything. was I just oblivious? did I just not not let stuff get to me as quickly?

somewhere in a successful long term MR the idea of forgiveness and by extension the letting go of resentments is essential else no relationship has a chance of surviving a lifetime.

Wow. Yeah, wtf could you have done differently? lol

Her resentments towards me center mostly around me not being attentive and supportive during difficult times. Mainly revolving around when our son was born. How she did most of the parenting (up with him at night, diapers, etc), and that during that time I basically worried more about myself than her and our son. There were specific incidents that reinforced those things.

I can definitely see her point, and don't completely blame her for feeling that way. I don't feel like I was negligent or anything. I mean, I was 'there'. I tried. When I wasn't home I was working. I definitely wasn't involved as much as I should have been, but some of it was out of my control (mainly work). Some of it was me being selfish, scared, not knowing what to do, etc.

barring having another kid and being more involved in the first year of their life, there's really nothing I can do or change about those resentments.

And yeah, there are certainly things that she's done that still bother me. I don't know if I'd call them resentments. I tend to get over things pretty quickly. Especially the things that happened years and years ago.

[lost8]

Terapin...yeah it's crazy when they talk about the anger and resentment. I am M almost 18 years and it is like I never did anything right. My W knew exactly where I was 20 years ago and that I didn't help her move out of her old house and we had only just begun dating.

If I felt half of what she says I was doing for 18 years, I would have been gone a long time ago. Strange psychological changes these people go through when they start acting like this.

[SteveLW]

Remember, non-sexual touching. That will go a long way towards her feeling comfortable again. I heard many of the same things you did early on in my sitch. I incorporated touch charges from another marriage experts plan (obviously not DBing). Those really seemed to help a lot. And I still use them today. And will use them for the rest of our marriage.

Terapin, you've now received this answer from her at least twice (maybe more). So I would let it lie from now on. I know you've been spending a lot of time thinking about this. Most of us agree that it is way too early to put that much pressure on it, even if we disagree about how important it should be in general.

And do not discount what she said about hugging and sleeping it the marital bed again! That is huge. I think you yourself would only need to go back a few weeks to realize that it seemed very improbable of happening. Give her the time she needs to keep working towards more affection and intimate touching.

Yep. I at least got my answer (again) from her. And ya, I constantly try to remind myself of where we were 3 months ago. I won't bring it up again for a while.

This is also the 2nd or 3rd she's brought up these 'resentments'. It's hard to understand how she's still holding onto things from a decade ago (one of which I don't even remember happening). It's also hard to understand how she's going to get over them, since she obviously hasn't over the last 10 years. Hopefully MC can offer some advice.

My W has a terrible memory. She can't remember someone told her 20 minutes ago. She has to write everything down when someone relays a message because she has trouble remembering what she was told.

However, she can tell you when I was mean to hear in April 1999. She can tell you something I said that was insensitive 15 years ago. She can tell you how I made her feel when I came across indifferent at times while we were still dating.

Hurts, resentments, disappointments are all things humans have a really tough time getting over. Especially women when they are hurt by men, and certain personality types.

If it comes in in MC, take the opportunity that you cannot go back and fix those things, you can't do them over again. However, you can work on learning from those things she remembers, and resolve to do better in the future. My only caution is to make sure your actions are consistent with that resolution, and that you remain consistent in those types of 180s.

For me, T, being a man related to rejection was a big step forward. My NGS tendencies made me feel entitled, and I would remove emotional connection due to lack of physical connection. And I would get passive-aggressive due to me "hurt". One of the biggest 180s I've made is to be consistent in my treatment of her no matter what happens. Reverting to NGS behaviors because you are pouting over your wants not getting fulfilled will set you back faster than anything.

A big, bald Texas doctor that has his own TV show cause it being a "right fighter". Someone that would rather be right ("the MC said she should do this!") than happy. That term, right fighter, was a huge epiphany for me.

Damn, that sounds so much like my W and I that it's a little creepy!

When she started talking about them yesterday, all I basically did was listen, validate, and say that there's nothing I can do to change those things. It's funny too because when things that she's done that I resent come up, her reply is always like 'I can't change things from the past. I'm human. I make mistakes. etc'. But that doesn't seem to work when I say it! But to be honest, I don't know if I ever sincerely acknowleged and apologized for those things.

W did say about how she's still not sure if my 'changes' are permanent, or if I'll fall back into the way I was at the time of these resentments. That's fair. If she wasn't seemingly making changes with herself too, I probably wouldn't even care. But she is bettering herself as well.

Yes, my W really struggled with my changes as well. Especially since this was our second go around (first being in 2005) and then by 2010 I had slipped back into my previous behavior, only worse. So come 2017, when I discovered EA #2 12 years later, when I started changing she was very dubious about how permanent those changes are/were. The difference this time was getting in to counseling. In MC I was very consistently talking to our C, who was excellent by the way, that I wanted to make sure my positive changes stuck this time. Rather than empty promises she saw that I was working very hard to get to the root cause of why I was the way I was.

I remember one incident in particular, which was more of a misunderstanding than how she took it.

Back last fall my daughter wanted to go to a sporting event to support her friends at the high school, My W agreed to pick up another friend and take them to the game. Once they got there, the group of kids decided rather than play $2/slice of pizza at the game, they'd go get a $5 large pizza at a local pizzeria. So later when I checked Life 360, I saw they were several miles away from the school. Being a bit concerned about what was going on, I tried calling my W. She NEVER answers her phone (or at least didn't, it is one of the 180s she has made since all of this). I then began texting.

My time she called back I was irritated at not getting a hold of her, and my demeanor on the phone was not good. "Where are you?!?" "What are you doing?!?" Worse, this behavior was witnessed via the phone hands free controls in vehicle, by my D and her friends. My W was embarrassed to say the least. And this came up later in MC.

The C acknowledged that this was very parental of me. And it was. It fit perfectly with my W's "he is controlling" narrative. My W took it that I didn't like that she bought a $5 pizza. That wasn't it at all, but I can understand why she had that perception. So one of my 180s has been to not behave this way over things that just don't matter. And we explored in Cing why I felt the need to behave that way.

Discussing this and delving into the reasons behind my behavior was very effective in making her start to trust the changes. Time is the only other thing.

My suggestion is to not run away from your poor behavior in the past. Own it. 180. Be willing to take ownership of it in MC. And then give her the time she needs to get past the bitterness and resentment.

[Terapin]

Terapin...yeah it's crazy when they talk about the anger and resentment. I am M almost 18 years and it is like I never did anything right. My W knew exactly where I was 20 years ago and that I didn't help her move out of her old house and we had only just begun dating.

If I felt half of what she says I was doing for 18 years, I would have been gone a long time ago. Strange psychological changes these people go through when they start acting like this.

She brings up an incident that happened at our rehearsal dinner the night before our wedding. She forgot a prayer book or something, and started crying. And instead of me helping her, I drove off to the dinner so I could start drinking with my friends.

I literally, hand to God, have no recollection of this whatsoever. I have a hard time believing I would drive away when she was standing there crying, and I know for a fact I didn't even touch any alcohol that night for fear of a hangover. But not only is she mad about the incident, she's mad that I don't remember it.

[SteveLW]

Maybe she dreamed it. Bottom line is that it is her reality. So validate. Vow to do better. Move on.