Thanks Davide and AnotherStander. You are right that there is something wrong with him for saying these things in bed. He does have control and manipulation issues. In fact, my therapist (who also served as our marriage counselor last year so knows him a bit) believes he exhibits signs of narcissism.
I never saw these personality traits in him until about three years ago when he told me he was unhappy. At that point, he started telling me a sexual fantasy he wanted to engage in with me that I wasn't comfortable with. The fantasy exhibits his need to want to control me and almost "own" me. His comments in bed last night are things he started saying after we separated and would sleep with each other. He really believes I will always be around for him whenever he wants. I also think that because he holds anger and resentment towards me because he had a crush on me for years before we dated and I could care less about him. Then we married and he felt I settled and never made him feel wanted, the control is almost like revenge for him, like "Now look who wants who." I feel this way because there have been times when he's expressed his anger at me and said "For years you never made me feel wanted, never showed interest in me."
He says other disturbing things to me that I think I've posted before. When he's jealous and accuses me of sleeping with someone he tells me that he's not jealous, that it's hot, and I should take a video and share it with him or come over for "sloppy seconds." It is baffling that a 38 year old man who has a successful career and two kids makes comments like this.
I do realize now looking back at his previous relationship before we married, he was with his girlfriend for seven years and they constantly broke up and got back together. He used to say it was because she was crazy, but I realize now he enjoyed the game of it all and would break up with her, have sex with her, get back together, then do it all over again because she let him and kept coming back.
I try to use all this as motivation to detach - he's expecting me to be around all the time and wants to control and manipulate me. Wouldn't that be a shock to him if I wasn't around anymore and didn't want to be part of his drama.
Thanks Ready2Change. I want to get to where you are, though I know I am very early into this. I'm having a friend over tonight who has a child the same age as my son. We're doing a little dinner party with the kids.
I think I just fell off the deep end. I started looking at his cell phone records (we still share an account). I know I shouldn't but I did. He has told me that he still "talks" (I assume that means text because he is not a talking on the phone kind of person unless it's for work) to the woman he had an affair with. He said they talk but he doesn't know if she's gonna work it out with her husband or not.
Well, I saw that last Thursday he called her. It was a one minute call so I assume that means no answer. There have been no other calls to her but it doesn't mean he's not texting with her (he uses Google Hangouts to text so I have no view into most of his text messages). But it just killed me wondering why he would even call her - Was he meeting up with her that night? Was she not answering his texts because they got in a fight about the relationship and that's why the following Sunday he brought up divorce? Was he trying to talk to her about their relationship but she's still trying to work things out with her husband? I thought back to last Thursday and he was actually sending me jealous text messages around 10 pm that night. So I don't know but I think my brain just fried itself thinking about this. I could worry about it until the cows come home but never know the real answer unless he decides to tell me whether or not they are seeing each other again. I'm just done. I can't keep holding on to a man who was a selfish husband, made me unhappy, distanced himself when things got hard, criticized me a lot, and lied and cheated on me. For God's sake, I wasn't even that physically attracted to him when we first started dating and now my deluded mind thinks he's the hottest guy in the world.
I deserve better than this. I WANT better than him.
Thank you all for reading my posts and responding. I know I am probably a frustrating case because I know what I'm supposed to do but I keep doing the opposite. It is still early in the process for me so I ask for your understanding.
Last night I spiraled again. I looked at the cell phone bills again and saw that he had ordered flowers in late August (when he first moved out), early September, and then just last week. My first thought is that he is either seeing the OW again or...he had told me they talk but she's trying to figure things out. I remember when he was courting me he would constantly send me flowers. It's kind of part of his "slow and steady" strategy to get the girl.
I couldn't sleep wondering and so I did what I wasn't supposed to do. I sent him a text message and asked him whether or not he is seeing her. This was his response:
"I'm not doing anything right now. My life is a mess. I have company sometimes. I can date who I want. It's my business. I would appreciate not being accused of things and instead be treated with a little dignity and privacy [SIDE NOTE: This coming from the guy who accuses me of getting "laid" constantly.]. I never give you a hard time about dating. You lie about it all the time [SIDE NOTE: Because I'm not dating and he insists I am]. And it's ok. You can be just as private as I have been. We are separating. Or divorcing or whatever. I'm not doing anything right now. I'm a mess and I just want to move on. I don't want complications. I want to be friends with you and parents. You're amazing at that. I want you to be happy. And I want to be happy. And I want you to want that for me."
In response, I told him that I wanted us to both be happy and that I believed we could work together for a new, happy marriage. He said:
"We can't. We won't. I want a divorce. I will get a separation in order to continue giving you insurance until you are employed. Then I would like to convert to divorce when you are back on your feet. I feel like your behavior looms over my head. That even if I wanted to date her I couldn't. You would text her and inject yourself into my life." He said this because the night I found out about the affair, I found her phone number and sent her angry messages. That was how I reacted. I'm not saying it was right, but that's what I did. I haven't reached out to her since that night I found out.
He continued on with: "I want you to let me go. I've been hoping you would date someone so you would move on. We hurt each other terribly. I'm sorry. Truly desperately sorry. I see you growing. I appreciate it. I'm proud of you. You aren't the same person. I am the same person. Basically. I don't know if that's good or bad. Probably neither. It just is. This process changed you more than it did me. But I think for you that's good. I need to change too. But it's slower. I need the freedom to do that. I'd like you to just genuinely wish me happiness. Find yourself. Find your happiness. I honestly don't think you'll look back. And that matters. It affects me now but that's more a reflection on how I feel about the nature of our relationship [SIDE NOTE: I think this is part of his whole belief that I settled for him and just stuck around because it was comfortable. He truly believes I will easily find someone new and realize I never really wanted to be with him]. Go be happy. I want that for you. You deserve it. And I'll support you."
I responded by saying that neither of us know if we'd look back. He said: "I don't. And I wasn't saying about what I think I'll do. That's my own thought to keep."
Then he said he wanted to be left alone. And then closed out by saying he's going to have an orgy tonight, then said he was kidding, and then he said he can date 24 year olds if he wants to, though it doesn't mean he does. WTF???
After this conversation, I felt even more hopeless about the chances of our marriage working out. He is really in this place where our marriage represents sadness and unhappiness and he feels he wouldn't go back. And, I do believe he wants to try to see if things work with the OW. I think he feels he is a mess right now because that's not yet happening for him.
However, him saying that this process has changed me more than him and that he needs to change too but hasn't, made me realize that if we got back together right now, it would be the same old thing. There are many things he needs to change about himself, and I don't know that he truly realizes what they are. Thus, as he's said, he has not change. We are still early into this and there's a lot of soul searching he needs to do, though it looks like he's more focused on finding someone new and moving on, that he thinks that's how he will be happy.
I don't know what to make of our conversation. It feels hopeless to me, like he is pretty much saying he is never coming back. I know I need to not care and just detach. It is so very hard.
I guess I learned that I don't feel any better after asking him. It's like, ok, he told me he's not seeing her. How do I know he's telling me the truth? Doesn't really make me feel better. Then he says other things that I start to think about. It's an endless cycle.
I’m sorry cdd. Honestly...if I pushed my H, I’m pretty sure that is exactly what he would say to me. He really does believe right now that there is no going back. I agree with that. I don’t want to go back. But I do want to move on... from the lies, from the pain, from the lonely nights. I want to find me again and make me responsible for my happiness and not him. I suspect my H is at least dating despite him telling me he is not. He may not have been when he told me that but that was a few weeks ago. I would not be remotely surprised if he was on a few dating websites and checking things out. Sadly...he still searches for answers outside of himself. He has stopped counselling. He shows no signs of wanting to return. I am slowly coming to terms with the idea that self exploration is not really on his menu right now. I will have to be happy with having it on mine. I think, in the long run, I will be better off for it and he will be... playing the same tune with a different band.
Anyway...I know exactly how you feel. I know this is so incredibly hard. It is excruciating. But it can’t stay that way if you don’t let it. This really is an opportunity. I know it is very difficult to see it that way right now but it is. In a year, you will look back and you will feel differently. Take this time to ask yourself what YOU want and who YOU want to be and how YOU want to be treated. If I truly look at my situation with an objective eye, my H treated me with a disrespect and coldness that I could NEVER, EVER even get close to matching. That is a sobering thought. KNOW YOUR WORTH. If you don’t, no one else will either... least of all your H. Keep making your changes but do it for you. Let him deal with his messy life.
Thanks DejaVu6. I found it so interesting that he acknowledged the changes I’ve made through this ordeal and said he probably needs to change too but it is a slower process. I actually wonder what he thinks he needs to change because he has only blamed me for everything that went wrong. And of course it’s slower, he’s not even seeing a therapist, just trying to jump into a new relationship so he can “move on.”
I feel the same way you do about my marriage. People would ask me if I was happy (this was before the BD). I said “well, I’m only unhappy because he’s unhappy. If he was happy, I’d be happy.” Huh? Short answer is “No. I was not happy.” Like you, he treated me disrespectfully. Like a narcissist, he would build me up with compliments about my looks and what a great mother I was, but then he would cut me down with passive aggressive comments about how boring I was, or how dumb something I liked was. It was horrible. I felt he was so angry at me for not making him feel wanted he had to cut me down constantly. Even now he’s sweet one minute and then tells me I’m “so boring.” I deserve better.
