Feeling lost, scared and wanting to fix this. Pt 2

[Turbine]

Hey there Turbine - I've not been following too closely but you are treading along a path that many of us have walked before you.

Don't be too hard on yourself. You are dealing with things that are life-altering and largely out of your hands.

Don't expect anything much from her either the practical nor the emotional. Superficially you appear to be around where I was in June 2016 when I was whacked with so many 2X4s that I eventually built myself a virtual "Cabin in the Woods".

Don't be too hard on myself. Yeah, I probably am. Sometimes I give in too soon. Others I refuse to give up. I am in mode 2. I haven't seen enough 2x4s to frame in a cabin yet. Or maybe I have and being in mode 2 I am getting a nice big ol' stack of 'em.

You've heard this a bucket of times already I am sure but I'll repeat it. Focus on yourself and your own journey. Be the "sane parent" for your kids and grandkids. They are going to be confused and need you to be their lighthouse on the rock.

Kids are supportive, believe I can do better and short of a miracle, will have less and less to do with their mother. Not what I would like to have happen. Much of that has been long in the making and I accept my part in it. As for the grandkids... haven't made it an issue. The oldest two (granddaughters) would be most likely to understand (10,9) but they live in Buffalo NY. Their parents are divorced. The next two (grandsons) may or may not (8,6) fully get it. My wife butts heads with this daughter. They are cut from the same cloth and I'd say share a few common cut edges. This daughter is divorced as well. The baby... well she is a baby. No idea what is going on in her mind. Although it would be sort of cool to know. With no reference though.... be tough to sort out.

All of our children are willing to and have offered (bordering on insisting) that eventually I come live with them. Long term it is a great thought and I am very appreciative of it. Will it happen? Who knows.

Without detailed reading, it would appear that in some ways your story is similar to mine - heck pretty much all the stories here are the same in some way or another. Know that this isn't about you. Also know that at this point that there's not a darned thing you can do that will change her mind or swerve her from her course.

Please read and comment. I see the interest from the number of views but have missed the mother lode of knowledge here. I know I can get help here and a reality check. Like I said before; this Martian is asking for help with his Venusian. I do like that book. Much of that to be put to use after getting to MR 2.0 and definitely for me as 2.0

I'm sorry if that isn't something you are ready to hear at this point and yes - I could well be wrong.

As far as your wife goes, she isn't someone who can be trusted. She's probably up way past the eyeballs in lies and secrets, most of which you probably don't want to know. She's also, like so many, unlikely to do any of the adulting or heavy-lifting. She is being very very selfish right now.

Is she going through a MLC or whatnot? Difficult to say and irrelevant. You can't help her and she doesn't want your help. Will she come out the other side and look for you? Again, difficult to say and also still irrelevant. Many of us put our lives on hold waiting. Some for longer durations than others.

Good luck. This stuff is hard.

Ready to hear is and ready to accept it are not one and the same. Am I there on both counts. To be honest... probably not. Taking a poll here would probably support that. a poll on my progress... Hmmm... I think it would be seriously needed because I feel like I have made some progress. I don't have a good metric though and being hard on myself to different degrees makes me a poor judge of my own progress.

At best I am getting mixed signals from her. At this point these might as well be background noise. As you say the MLC or ??? really doesn't matter because. I am trying to move on with my life. Right now though for any foreseeable length of time I see it to be a lonesome trip. Supposed to be her there. In God's hands.

So my plan is to continue to work on me. Diet, exercise, GAL, work on the house, attend Church. My S asked me to help him and a friend with the friends car. Needs a battery and now its a teachable moment. This coming from a not a car guy. Thankfully I have access to a great resource in Ray. (I know there is this thing called the internet and google) Ray was my parents neighbor. Wealth of knowledge and all the tools to do the job. I helped him hand the patio door after he painted it. Yesterday we went and ran a few errands at the grocery store/pharmacy before going to lunch. Good stuff. FWIW we like the new lunch place but it still doesn't beat our favorite watering hole. Sort of like Cheer's, where everyone knows your name.

Went to bed last night after W left again. Working, because I have nothing to support anything else, and yes I am not happy about it. Can't do anything about it either so why bother. However this morning I woke up feeling not completely accepting of any of this but more a step away from completely fighting it. It isn't a on/off switch is it. More like a volume control or a stepped switch. So I am not at a hard stop on the end of it. Good? Bad? Just a sign of progress? IDK. Wish I did though.

So time to start my day. Run a few errands. Likely to spend the night with my D and S. So that means I will see my grandsons. They are always happy to see me. Go for a walk with my D and their dog. Looking forward to Veterans Day. Going to attend an luncheon with this D and then go Veteran's Day special crawling. Hooter's, Olive Garden, etc. The two of us did it last year and was fun. If the oldest were with us then it would be the three of us. Maybe someday.

[Turbine]

Spent the night at younger D. Watched a few episodes of Sabrina with her and her BF. Wow is that a much darker series than what was on before. Definitely not kid level show. Maybe not even early teen.

They also got a new kitten. Guess who was my sleep buddy last night. Must have thought my snoring was equivalent to purring... who knows.

Church was not bad. Talked to a family friend. She had gone for lunch a month or so ago. Complimented her on the pictures she had posted. She also had gone to a comedy show by Jo Koi the night before. Asked her about that. Okay... shouldn't have brought up the W and her at lunch right? I haven't mentioned the sitch with the W to her. Don't know what the W told her. Not asking.

Sermon was timely and had me thinking. I hope nothing worse and getting better but am working on going south. Sad... it is what it is and what will be will be.

Time change playing with my schedule. Don't know if eliminating the time shift is a plus or not. Whatever... stray thought.

Didn't mind the kitten. D thinks I ought to get a dog or cat. Maybe in the future. Would be a change. W is allergic to dog we had and not sure about a cat. After the D.

Chores tonight after afternoon activity with S. Laundry and trash to the curb. Maybe Dinner with S and his GF.

[Turbine]

W worked this weekend. Don't know when she got home. Care only to the point she was safe. Safe is important. I don't want to see any harm come to her. Where does that fit in to all of this? Beyond remaining a decent human being?

Oh well. Had an interesting dream. We were in the kitchen and out of the blue got nice kiss from W. Followed by a second. Like I said, nice. Being a dream though... I did keep cool though and not go all romance novel either. Whiskey Tango .....

Second dream was a reoccurring dream. Not related to W. I might be binge watching Hawaii 5.0 a little to much.

[AndrewP]

Hi again. Since you asked, I went back and read through your thread.

Weird - but also somewhat familiar.

So - you were in the Navy? My son-in-law is on the USS Lincoln. He's not intending to go the full time either but it has given him a good trade and future prospects. I presume you met your W while on deployment? I recall a book by Adm. James Savridis that I read recently where he complimented what great wives the Filipinos make.

One thing that I'm not reading is much about what sort of person your wife is. I'm reading between the lines here. You may not agree and you may not like this, but it is what I can infer from the limited information available.

On the surface she strikes me as an entitled woman who is focused on appearances and has historically been very much in control of you and the marriage. Your financial position sounds troubling yet I also read how your W has a high-end car while at the same time you have large amounts of unsecured debt. At our time of life that can lead to a very difficult transition into retirement.

It may not feel like it, and I certainly disagreed about it on my own situation while going through the absolute h@ll of in-house separation, but you've got a classic cake-eater on your hands. "Sell the house" she says - no consultation - no consideration of what your wishes might be. Give me money "because". I'm offended on your behalf. She has stuff piling up all over the place - and very similarly to my own experience, you are reluctant to / afraid to touch any of it. Meanwhile she gets the full enjoyment of the marriage and marital resources while you get the shaft.

She doesn't want you she says but has lame reasons. Wants a divorce, but is still hanging around some months later. I expect that you have been a pretty decent husband. None of us are perfect. The things she complains about are pretty typical and if they were big enough to cause the break-up of a long-term marriage she would have been gone a long time ago. A number of WAW wait until the kids are grown and out of the house, but they generally have a well executed plan and are gone before the letter from their lawyer hits the floor.

You've not come out and said it explicitly but you strongly suspect the presence of an OM. Her job does make being absent easy to "explain". As an aside - I would suggest getting tested for STDs. If there is an affair, well - people do stupid things like having unprotected sex with relative strangers.

In my case, my now ex was what some people call a "branch-swinger". She kept a firm grip on me while working on securing her new wonderful life with her OM. Spoiler alert - it didn't work out the way she expected. During the time when I kept hoping for her affair to burn out, she also had full access to marital resources (used our savings to take OM on a tropical vacation), I made her car payments and most of her stuff was still in the house. I spent my time balling my eyes out and arguing with people here.

Now, I'm not a huge DB cheer-leader. I think that MWD methods probably do work well for many people, but for a lot of us here on the forum, we're generally pretty far down the rabbit hole for that to work. With that said, there have been a number of reconciliations that I've seen here but they are pretty rare.

So - what I'm going to suggest is VERY non DB.

Consequences. Called by some here boundaries if you want to DB-ify it a bit.

Right now you are getting walked all over and are accepting that. I get it. I probably still have boot prints all over my back myself.

Have you had a good talk with your lawyer on how the divorce will work out in practical terms? How badly will you be scr@wed over? Will you need to sell the house? How much support will be paid? Does she make enough to be self-supporting?

What about her brother and mother? If she leaves presumably she needs to take them with her.

You also probably want to protect yourself financially. Talk to your bank. See what you can do to ensure that you have your own separate funding available that she can't put her hands on. Don't trust her to not be selfish. See if you can get pre-approved for a new mortgage that will roll up the debts and be under just you. Check about financing for your legal fees - divorce is expensive. Mine was pretty much completely conflict free but I was still out 8 grand.

OK - digest that and then tell me that I'm an idiot and wrong.

You'll also notice that I didn't mention anything about how any of this would bring her back to you. It probably won't. Having to deal with consequences might wake her up though to the fact that she's no longer the boss of you and can't just steam-roll over you.

If you do want a smidgen of hope - and I'm only talking a smidgen - check out Gordie's threads. His wife went through 2 OM, rubbed his face in it, stopped going to church and expected him to be OK with it all. Once he got to the point of ensuring that she knew that things were not going to work out as per her fantasy and was within days of moving in to an apartment, she dropped the OM and her divorce. They're trying to work things out. Gordie is rather a super-hero here for his dedication and devotion.

[ovrrnbw]

Good post Andrew, although I'd say I'm a bit more optimistic on the marriages being saved - but that's just me!

[Turbine]

Hi again. Since you asked, I went back and read through your thread.

Weird - but also somewhat familiar.

So - you were in the Navy? My son-in-law is on the USS Lincoln. He's not intending to go the full time either but it has given him a good trade and future prospects. I presume you met your W while on deployment? I recall a book by Adm. James Savridis that I read recently where he complimented what great wives the Filipinos make.

My wife has been fantastic. Not without flaws certainly. Right now she is focused on all the negatives with some rewriting I'm sure. I had met another lady but it wasn't... right...

One thing that I'm not reading is much about what sort of person your wife is. I'm reading between the lines here. You may not agree and you may not like this, but it is what I can infer from the limited information available.

On the surface she strikes me as an entitled woman who is focused on appearances and has historically been very much in control of you and the marriage. Your financial position sounds troubling yet I also read how your W has a high-end car while at the same time you have large amounts of unsecured debt. At our time of life that can lead to a very difficult transition into retirement.

It may not feel like it, and I certainly disagreed about it on my own situation while going through the absolute h@ll of in-house separation, but you've got a classic cake-eater on your hands. "Sell the house" she says - no consultation - no consideration of what your wishes might be. Give me money "because". I'm offended on your behalf. She has stuff piling up all over the place - and very similarly to my own experience, you are reluctant to / afraid to touch any of it. Meanwhile she gets the full enjoyment of the marriage and marital resources while you get the shaft.

My W said she was/ is depressed and she went shopping. So now there are shoes and clothes in abundance. I don't recall her telling me anything before. I wish I had paid more attention to her. Doesn't help that all she seems to think or imply was that I was only good for $$$ and even that wasn't enough. she was upset that I didn't retire from the Navy. To be honest there are times i wish I had. However my rating was very sea duty oriented and I was on crummy duty rotation when the ship was in port. Not exactly a good family life and I was not happy at my command. A number of plank owners were still attached to the command. More than a few were jerks.

She doesn't want you she says but has lame reasons. Wants a divorce, but is still hanging around some months later. I expect that you have been a pretty decent husband. None of us are perfect. The things she complains about are pretty typical and if they were big enough to cause the break-up of a long-term marriage she would have been gone a long time ago. A number of WAW wait until the kids are grown and out of the house, but they generally have a well executed plan and are gone before the letter from their lawyer hits the floor.

You've not come out and said it explicitly but you strongly suspect the presence of an OM. Her job does make being absent easy to "explain". As an aside - I would suggest getting tested for STDs. If there is an affair, well - people do stupid things like having unprotected sex with relative strangers.

Yes. I think her "reasons" are over inflated. Not completely without merit but I am totally to blame? Not true but at this point getting her to accept any responsibility for this isn't happening. I ignored her. Took my parents side.\ Sided with the kids. Stopped attending church and I lied about getting out of the Navy because I wanted to attend church more. There was some of that. Truth is I was tired of being gone all the time. Not seeing my family or being there for milestones in life. Coming home to a house that had a room reorganized because. The good ol boys club and bending rules for members. I didn't fit in. When my enlistment was approaching the end of contract the councilor or my chiefs never talked to me about reenlisting. Heck the ship was getting ready to go out for 4 to 6 weeks for training. My enlistment would be up in the middle of that. No talk of "Hey Petty Officer Turbine, are you going to reenlist? You have 12 years in. Yeah I know you got busted and we are trying to help you develop career wise. About that school you asked about? Yeah... sorry you aren't valuable enough to send to that. Oh... you want to take some leave? Sorry, you are too important to let go now. "

A wise precaution getting tested. Maybe if she shows any interest in returning to our bed. Yeah before that... talk about a mood killer. "Sweetie... have you been tested for STDs?"
Although she has said there isn't another. She isn't interested in...etc. Yeah believe nothing they say...

In my case, my now ex was what some people call a "branch-swinger". She kept a firm grip on me while working on securing her new wonderful life with her OM. Spoiler alert - it didn't work out the way she expected. During the time when I kept hoping for her affair to burn out, she also had full access to marital resources (used our savings to take OM on a tropical vacation), I made her car payments and most of her stuff was still in the house. I spent my time balling my eyes out and arguing with people here.

Now, I'm not a huge DB cheer-leader. I think that MWD methods probably do work well for many people, but for a lot of us here on the forum, we're generally pretty far down the rabbit hole for that to work. With that said, there have been a number of reconciliations that I've seen here but they are pretty rare.

I am hoping we can R and move on to MR 2.0 but the last few days I am feeling fine with done and gone too. Sad about that because up until this last weekend I was all about getting to a R and MR 2.0

So - what I'm going to suggest is VERY non DB.

Consequences. Called by some here boundaries if you want to DB-ify it a bit.

Right now you are getting walked all over and are accepting that. I get it. I probably still have boot prints all over my back myself.

Have you had a good talk with your lawyer on how the divorce will work out in practical terms? How badly will you be scr@wed over? Will you need to sell the house? How much support will be paid? Does she make enough to be self-supporting?

What about her brother and mother? If she leaves presumably she needs to take them with her.

You also probably want to protect yourself financially. Talk to your bank. See what you can do to ensure that you have your own separate funding available that she can't put her hands on. Don't trust her to not be selfish. See if you can get pre-approved for a new mortgage that will roll up the debts and be under just you. Check about financing for your legal fees - divorce is expensive. Mine was pretty much completely conflict free but I was still out 8 grand.

OK - digest that and then tell me that I'm an idiot and wrong.

Have talked to a lawyer. She stands to loose more and no she doesn't have the income to support herself. I believe she is expecting the money from the house to give her a nice cushion. Especially since she wants to dump the bulk of the bills and debt on me. Not happening. She stands to loose a chunk of her 401K. No alimony for her. Although she makes more a hour than I do so technically I can collect form her... Her mother wants to move back in. Currently living with another daughter and they are renting a room. Its messed up. Yes, BiL move out.

Funds are separate. Paying bills from a joint account that she stopped adding to. She has only paid two things from there and that is all.

No you aren't an idiot or wrong. You are asking questions that I haven't supplied information about before and some I haven't been comfortable asking myself.

You'll also notice that I didn't mention anything about how any of this would bring her back to you. It probably won't. Having to deal with consequences might wake her up though to the fact that she's no longer the boss of you and can't just steam-roll over you.

If you do want a smidgen of hope - and I'm only talking a smidgen - check out Gordie's threads. His wife went through 2 OM, rubbed his face in it, stopped going to church and expected him to be OK with it all. Once he got to the point of ensuring that she knew that things were not going to work out as per her fantasy and was within days of moving in to an apartment, she dropped the OM and her divorce. They're trying to work things out. Gordie is rather a super-hero here for his dedication and devotion.

I started reading Gordie's threads. Read your's too.
Thanks for your take on this. Posting with reads and not a lot of feedback leaves me feeling that I am blindfolded and have my hands bound while navigating a maze. Thanks for lifting the blindfold a little.

[AndrewP]

Thanks for the feedback Turbine.

Don't stress too much about what is being dredged up out of the bilges and tossed across at you. None of it is anything that can be changed. The past is the past and you've taken ownership of your issues.

One thing I can suggest is to think of this forum as a community. You've had a number of people come to call. Go around to other people's threads and check their stories. It helped me to let me know that I wasn't alone in my struggles. If you comment on their threads - even if it's just a "I hear ya" - or "You're doing great" - they will come visiting here as well.

Getting diverse feedback on your situation from people who are going through the same cr@p as you will give you perspective and strength. I know that I formed some very strong bonds, some of which I still have with quite a number of people here.

I'm not sure how philosophical you are. You strike me as a very practical man, but reading up on the Stockdale paradox has helped a number of people. Knowing that you will make it through this and come out the other side a better person can add strength. The paradox is that you have no idea what that other side would be and you have to go through h@ll to get there.

Good luck!

[Turbine]

So oh great DB community, what to do about cake walking? She is in another bedroom. Hasn't been really packing. Removed very little as far as I can tell. Yes I had to snoop in her room to know that. No I didn't do anything more than look from the doorway. Yes, I know, still bad Turbine.

Would the request to move out be a 180 for me since I generally don't push? Or more me being a "bully" and confirming in her mind the worst. Wait... why should I care. W is the one wanting the D. She did the BD. She isn't willing to try anymore. So what is the worst that can happen? She moves out and the D goes through. I am getting resigned to that undesired outcome.

Tell me I'm wrong... or right.

[Turbine]

Reading Gordie's thread, 5 years into, page 6. A lot to consider.

Makes me wonder. I still want to work on us, eventually. I suppose right now work on me even more. The idea of life after her... hurts still, maybe even more than before. I know I will survive it. Put it in His hands.

[Turbine]

So W got the $$$ from her brother to pay the phone bill. Based on the amount she didn't pay last month. Makes me begin to think that going the D route is the smart thing to do. I'd like to know what she is doing with her $$$ because not helping around the house.

So rather than wait for the D, I think I will have to look at getting my own cell phone account. Because this is nuts.

I asked to see the bill. With a please rather than all caps (rude). She sent me the total portion. She gets the bill on her phone. So much for a priceless wife in reference to the Bible. Sadly the specific verses I am thinking of escape me at the moment. Another area to improve myself in. Not to be prideful in my knowledge but to seek wisdom and comfort in the lessons there.

Back to more reading.