Finding the Balance and then Tipping the Scale

[Adam04]

Neffer, Lost, Sandi, Max thank you for the comments, the insight, and support.

I have read 2 of the WW posts and some on the stages for the LBS. Still have much reading to do, and a lot was going on. Decided to journal, Last night I was going to journal but I felt deflated and tired(not being able to think clearly to put everything into words), it was 2am in the morning after watching movies with the kids and everyone went to bed. You could hear me typing away and then I deleted. I felt like I was in a good place, then unsure, then wondering if I am backsliding or even know what I want.

Yesterday, W and I had two sets of conversations. The first one had to deal with her having a conversation with her older brother on their mom and finding her a place to stay as the mom is stating with another brother and his wife is nagging the mom to death. The brother talking to my wife asked if their mom could stay with us so she had to tell him of our D and living situation. W doesn't want mom to know. She said to me that in the future mom could stay with us. it was us this and us that. So I asked what do you mean us. She then said she didn't know. I didn't push but then she was quiet. I wanted to validate so I asked are you okay? She said she was a little sad because she didn't have the answer. I said don't worry I can imagine how confusing things are for you right now. I guess this led to more talking as she wanted to open up. She said she was sorry that she wasn't communicating and that she was trying more now. I tried to validate saying it wasn't all her, I know I was responsible too. I said I am glad we can talk without it being an argument. We're listening.

I was saying a lot of positive things like she mentioned a story about the kids one day on the car ride to school saying mom I saw you crying and were you sad, she said when and they said it was when she was talking to dad. She said she didn't know how to handle that and it broke her heart to have her children see us fighting. I told her I was sorry too and I would do better to help protect the kids from this but that sometimes, when two people argue I want to show our kids that its okay to disagree if we do it lovingly and respectfully. I told her we've had our differences our whole lives and we knew what was important enough to get across and we didn't let the small stuff interfere but now its different. I told her we argued, and compromised, we still came together. I put it all out there because I was getting tired, I wanted to let her know I knew better that I was better, in a better space. but in doing so, I cant accept certain things. A phrase she uses is I don't want to string you along or i know we are living in limbo. This was leading up to our second conversation for the night...

We've said before after BD that we don't know what could happen and we would probably change our minds 50 thousand times before the house is finished. She was actually referring to me since over 2 months ago she said she was adamant on the divorce because she couldn't forgive what I had done. She did mention something about she liked the thought of her independence when she picked the items for the house because she felt like I was too controlling with everything. I don't recall what I said unfortunately. I probably tried to validate and said something like picking items don't matter to me. There was some other stuff too during that day. she said her family noticed I changed and was more upbeat and engaging. They said there was an old version and this new version. I told her I was just picking up new habits and working on me. Like I had an awakening.

I said I liked the conversations we had, we were always arguing and now its sometimes feel like its quiet because we don't want to argue. What I got out of the early morning conversation was how it ended, she asked well are you thinking about what you will be doing at the end when we sell the house. I don't know if we spoke on selling and then what would happen with the money, I think we were going to split it so it may have prompted her asking. When I did ask about what she meant about the us, she did say she wasn't sure but also she wasn't ready for anything. Fair enough. She said something, wish I could remember but it made me think we are never going to reconcile.

She said that she was scare of the other shoe to drop and I asked what did she mean and she said if I stopped doing stuff like I was doing. I said I picked up better habits and now when I look at stuff it does bother me if there are dishes in the sink or something on the counter.

After the first talk we go to our eye exam and all 4 of us get new glasses, my youngest one was so excited to get his pair because everyone else had worn glasses besides him. We drive by the house being built, checking on things. It'll be a nice house for the kids and W. I'm thinking so many thoughts at this point.

Before I signed up to the forum, I had been straddling the fence on what to do and how I felt about my marriage. Did I want to save my marriage and why. What were the reasons, and the primary reason was for the kids. It broke my heart that I thought about them not having both of us there. It compels me to try, to keep trying, even though I may backslide or not know the best methods to approach resolution, I was still going to try. But deep down, who I am and my nature, I can't accept certain things.

***I can't accept being with someone in a MR who is lying to me or having any kind of A. I also can't fully bite my tongue when I need to. I think I have this idea that I need to tell her that I know what's going on and I'm not accepting it. I want to give her a second chance, but I don't need to***

After dinner at home, we both were sitting and casually watching something when we talked more about the morning conversation. I told her hey, you know how you don't want to string me along, well I don't want to string you along either. I told her, you know how you say you don't know where this is headed, I said I think we both know where this is headed. She said yeah. I said well put it this way, you've been mentioning that you liked your independence and all that that entails. I told her imagine if we did get back together and I knew in the back of your head you thought about your independence, how would that make me feel. she said she understood and I told her there are several things I cant deal with and even though she says nothing happened, I cant accept it.

I told her about this other life without me and I cant compete with this vision of this other life, her independence and if its with some other guy, real or not. She played that part of saying there was no one. I took this opportunity to put it all out there so she knew what I was talking about and why I did not want to push for reconciling. I said you have been reading these romance novels for a while and in the beginning I thought it would help our sex life or us but it got to the point where even when we don't have sex, its escape for you. I said even now you are always escaping to your books, to help propel this fantasy. You have this image of this person you prefer, Mr Right. I told her and we haven't gotten to the texts or the guy from work. She said omg, do you know he's married and I said so what, you're married too. I told her that's also part of the issue. Some people know of this other person, their spouse is giving them that much. Here I don't even have that decency for the truth and I'm not accepting it. I said I cant put a finger on it but I know there is something going on and I don't need proof. There is more driving this than just the error of my ways. She didn't say anything. I took that as confirmation and acceptance. We both knew.

I told her I saw the amazon book in her browser history the day she gave me the pw and there was a book she browsed on affairs and now its deleted. She said what do you mean, I don't know anything about that book or how to delete it. In the back of my mind I said the process to delete browser history is clear as day. browser history, delete item. I didn't argue. this just made me tell her, we need to set up a schedule. I was being adamant that I would like for this to work out but I don't need it to. I told her it felt like I was waking up, there was an awakening.

I said I don't know how much more you want to put into this independence but our issues don't just stem from lack of communication. The not talking to me was one thing, but lying to me was another. it shows you don't respect me and to continuously lie and not want to talk about it tells me a lot and I can not deal with that. I said when you said you wanted to be happy and you also want me to be happy, I said I felt liberated. I told her to listen to my voice. maybe before it was wavering but not tonight. I told her when I think about the kids that's the only time you would hear it crack and it did, but when I said I was over being sad about us or worried about the future, I was at peace my voice went back to being calm and I was straightforward. I said we should be concerned about when we split what happens to the kids and our things, I talked about the finances to give it a break from all the emotional stuff and to let her know I was thinking about the steps ahead. I said we should have the schedule so we know how to go about our days. She said what do you mean, you mean less family time together. i said yes. She said she didn't like that and she valued our companionship. i probably made a comment on this but i don't remember. i was always trying not to be too mean but at the same time i wanted to let her know i was serious.

She told me she didn't want a divorce. She said she thought about the insurance, the kids, every other thing except working on us. I told her the most important thing to worry about would be us and here you are thinking about other things, I said when we work on us, those things should fall into place. She then said she would not file the divorce. I did comment on the insurance though saying my health insurance would suck. this is how manipulative she is*** I'll explain this down below. She let me talk about it and I was baited. I guess I was trying to change the subject from letting her know that I knew what I was dealing with and I'm not accepting it. I was trying to stand up for myself. I had enough. I don't think I needed to validate every single thing she says and now wasn't the time. i'm feeling like I'm breaking every text book thing there is if I truly wanted to be a certain way to end up making it work. I was really coming from a place of honesty on what I cant accept. i hope this doesn't deter others who are truly working on their sitch to win their wife back into thinking this is a good way to show her.

This morning, I was going to text her saying I found two books I searched for on adultery and they are in her browser box and if she wanted she could click browser history and delete if she wanted to learn how to do it. I also said is this a good time to talk about who gets to be with the kids today. Mind you I had to get my phone from the other room this morning and I crossed her and the kids who were all waking up. I went to the room to text her and also take care of some bills. I also put in the text things I thought was going to be hurtful saying we knew this would happen yadda yadda, but then I said I was giving her a choice to go through this right now, which might mean having to explain to the older one why dad is being this way, or wait until later. maybe wait until after holidays or whenever.... I didn't send the text. i think i save it to my notes to use some of it and change up other parts later for when i do know what exactly to say to her, and then it would probably be best to say face to face … not sure yet.

i went out to the other room and saw both boys asking for me saying good morning daddy, and I hugged them tightly and told them i loved them so much, and she was laying there and asking where is my hug with her arms all out. I gave her a hug. I read her body language. she felt nothing. I used that as reassurance. i don't want to feel my love for them would cause me to despise her down the road... i thought about if I might test her, hug her, touch her, say something stupid like hey where's my hug but I'm not doing this to be needy, so I say. I'm thinking out loud, I might do that thinking I would have some one up on her, like I'm the one in control, temp checking her. I don't want to play games, but I'm emotional and i wonder if i am at a low what could really happen. I want to still give her space, love her and the time I have with the kids knowing deep down I am going to lose her but that I will be alright, because I deserve better than what she has become.

I don't know all the terms of everything yet of where I am in this whole process, but I feel like I was backsliding, and feeling good but sad like this is the second go around. I think I need to hurt, let it go, then be able to heal proper.

Well, I was rambling, I put it out there so she knows if she ever wants to try, it will be tough work for both of us. I cant easily trust her and I am glad I let her know. how I deal with the temporary temp checking, that's okay. I will see through her efforts once the house gets closer to being done. this is how manipulative she has become.

***this morning it dawned on me that when she mentioned insurance and she will not sign paper to divorce me or start the divorce like she once said, she meant her life insurance papers. A few weeks ago she told me she wanted me to sign a document that if anything happens to her I am the beneficiary of her life insurance and that I will pay her sister back who fronted her a lot of money for the house. I said sure, np. today, I said hey when you talked about insurance last night, did you mean by personal health insurance. she said yeah you know how yours is bad etc yada yada… in my mind, I said you didn't know any of that crap until I told you after you mentioned u wanted to keep me on the insurance. that wasn't the reason, it was the life insurance. she wants to make sure that if anything happened to her, I would still get the money to pay off the house and her sister. she doesn't want to divorce me. I guess this part of the goal? the next part is getting her to be in the marriage for all the right reasons now right? lol... I have to somewhat laugh at that.(not really)

i know... long post just typing it all out. some of it might not make total sense, so apologies.

[Adam04]

Seems like I am out of it today, not really making sense. Thinking I'm validating when it's not. Typing a lot and it feels like gibberish. The whole straddling the fence instead of being on the fence, lol... Earlier after I finished typing this, I think I wanted validation too. I don't know why I felt that there was a need to go to W for support or to point out stuff ab out her. In taking this stance saying because of x,y,z reasons I am acting this way, I feel like I am going overboard. Need to reel it back in. I went back to discuss the book thing on Amazon, saying I know what I saw and then talked to her more about her actions from prior nights that didn't make sense. I even brought up the insurance and she was saying medical and not life insurance. She said fine, I don't have to look out for you. I knew it was escalating into an argument and apologized for that.

Is this common for a few people, to come here thinking they want to save the marriage but end up with a change of mind or heart? Maybe this feels permanent today but tomorrow I'll sleep on it and give it another try... Just to do better for myself and the kids.

[lost8]

Hey Adam, weekends are tough on the board you don't get the interaction that you do during the week. I too am not here as much but I can honestly say it is because I am more active on weekends. Then the work week starts and I find myself here more.

Hang in there buddy it is an emotional rollercoaster ride. But I will tell you that you need to start doing things to get your mind off of the sitch at hand and on to other things. I struggle with the exact same things. My W started working from home and is there a lot more than she was before and when I am around her all I think of is things that I want to know about our sitch. And I will tell you for a fact all this does is push her away further if I start asking.

I have had a good week or two just by accident. I was at a local watering hole and met a nice bartender who just went through a similar A with her ex BF. I went back a couple days this week and we eventually exchanged numbers. Not sure what will come of it but it was helpful to both of us to talk about our sitches. Even more it was great to just meet a nice person. I can't tell you how much better I felt this past week knowing that there is life outside of the world I have lived in for the last 19 years.

My WW spent the weekend away again as she has in the past and I really did not care. My point is that I know it is hard to break the lifestyle that we have become so comfortable with and doing with our spouse for all these years. But it has taken me 6 months to realize that maybe I do not love her anymore...I loved the comfort of the situation I was in. My work is not over but after a lot of backslides myself see that there is a world out there and people in it that are good. I'm sure I will backslide again but I am committed to pushing myself to get out there and you need to as well.

[MoveFrwd]

Hello Adam and welcome to the board. I know it's terrible being here, but I know that it has saved so many people's marriages and lives over the year. This time of your life can be a place of tremendous personal insight and growth if you take the opportunity to absorb what you read and take the time to really look inward.

In reading your earlier posts, a few things stood out to me:

1) This is not 100% your fault. Stop sulking around and playing this woe is me card where you describe how horrible you were. Marriage is a team sport and it takes two to make it work and two to make it fall apart. Own your share - the inactivity, the jealousy, the shutting down, etc. But the rest of it is at her feet and it's on her to clean it up. Focus on the things you can control and improve upon them. How can you fix these things for the next relationship you have, whether it's with W or someone else?

2) What are you doing to regain your confidence.....your swagger....your excitement in life. It feels in reading your posts that you are throwing yourself into fixing what W said was wrong. Look....no matter how much housework or childcare you do, she isnt going to find you attractive right now. She doesnt want a maid. Or a babysitter. So you need to do those things because it's what you think is right and what you always should have been doing...not as a way to "show" her anything. So no....you dont do 'everything' or let her do 'everything'. You find that balance and do your share. If youre doing laundry, sure add the kid's stuff - but dont go around folding her clothes because you want to prove you can do her laundry.

3) What are you doing to GAL? I didnt see any mention of you having hobbies or going out or meeting new people? Its an incredibly important part of the process. For me, it was the MOST important. Put the kids to bed or take turns being the "parent in charge" after work - and then go out and do something (and not going to the bar to talk about your sitch with someone!). I mean, start a new hobby. Join a meetup. Volunteer somewhere. The activity doesnt really even matter that much.

You could hear me typing away and then I deleted. I felt like I was in a good place, then unsure, then wondering if I am backsliding or even know what I want.

Even if it's crazy rambling, theres no harm in putting your thoughts to words. Just dont show them to W. Lots of people write imaginary letters and then burn them or store them all away.

She said she was a little sad because she didn't have the answer. I said don't worry I can imagine how confusing things are for you right now. I guess this led to more talking as she wanted to open up. She said she was sorry that she wasn't communicating and that she was trying more now. I tried to validate saying it wasn't all her, I know I was responsible too. I said I am glad we can talk without it being an argument. We're listening.

This doesnt seem like validating to me. It isnt about reassuring her. Frankly, saying things like "dont worry" is INvalidating. She says she is worried and your first response is to tell her not to! I would say a better answer would be something like "there are a lot of things to be sad about right now." The point of validation is to HEAR her. Not to SOLVE her problems. And not really to AGREE with her either. It's just about listening[/]b and[b]understanding. When she says that she is having troubles communicating, you dont need to take blame - that isnt validation. Better is something like "there are a lot of tings in motion right now, so I can imagine it must be a confusing time for you." You want to understand how SHE feels - not solve whatever it is she is going through.

She did mention something about she liked the thought of her independence when she picked the items for the house because she felt like I was too controlling with everything. I don't recall what I said unfortunately. I probably tried to validate and said something like picking items don't matter to me. There was some other stuff too during that day. she said her family noticed I changed and was more upbeat and engaging. They said there was an old version and this new version. I told her I was just picking up new habits and working on me. Like I had an awakening.

Again....this isnt validation. Its solving her problems. Not listening to what she is saying.

I get it. It feels like you need to have an incredible DEFENSE right now. Like you need to SHOW her that when she says a problem that it will be better in the future. That you are changed. Better. Awakened. Aware. Whatever the word or feeling is. But it's not about YOU right now. So something like "Yeah. It can be frustrating feeling controlled." Or "It's certainly nice to feel in control of your decisions". or you can ask questions "it sounds like you feel like I always wanted to have the 'final say' on things?" It's about understanding her feelings. Not about improving or resolving them.

When I did ask about what she meant about the us, she did say she wasn't sure but also she wasn't ready for anything. Fair enough. She said something, wish I could remember but it made me think we are never going to reconcile.

Look. What if I told you that every time you ask a question ANYTHING like this, it sets you farther back....

Stop putting pressure on her. You know the rule "Believe nothing they say..." Theres a reason for it. Because feelings change. Because she just doesnt KNOW what she is feeling from moment to moment. You see that hot and cold pattern. Its because thats who she is right now. So any answer she gives is a waste of breath anyway. Stop putting pressure on her to set your course. Be your own man, and let what happens happen.

I can't accept being with someone in a MR who is lying to me or having any kind of A.

Adam. Your wife is having an affair of some kind right now. What are you doing about it? Frankly, it reads like you are sucking up to her.

***long conversation deleted***

I think you need to read up on boundaries. Like I said above, you called her out, and....now what? I really wish you had come here before confronting, because....now what? You say you cant accept her lying or her cheating or whatever. But HOW are you showing that? In the next breath, you say you dont want to divorce her. So what happens if she does it again? Because, Adam, she IS going to lie to you again. So what are you going to do about it now that you have made this "stand"?

It reads like you want her to feel guilty and come back to you because of guilt or shame or because she doesnt have any options. Rather than tell her what she needs to do...focus on you and what you need. "I am only interested in being with someone honest and loyal and trustworthy." rather than "you need to stop lying if you want to be with me." Read up on boundaries (after you read more on validation).

And look, stop trying to do everything all at once. TIME is your friend right now. Spend it reading an learning. Go and GAL. Kind of put your relationship on the back burner for the moment (as hard as it must be). Focus on you and your kids. Set goals and start fulfilling them. Basically, leave W to do as she wants for now.

Finally - you have to learn to keep your emotions in check. YOU need to be the stable, consistent one. Things are going to get worse. You need to be the steady one. I pictured myself as a giant rock while my ex-wife was the tides rolling in and out and around. You need to set your goals and your standards and adhere to them as much as you possibly can. Stop talking so much to her. Be a leader. Let your actions do the talking for you.

You can do it.
Keep reading and keep posting.

[Adam04]

Lost , thank you for the support. I really appreciate it, need all of it I can get right now. Sorry to hear about your sitch but it's good to know you are GAL and that you are feeling better from it. There are so many wonderful people out there and here like yourself for taking their time to help a random stranger out with my sitch. I barely have time during the week and my time is really divided on the weekend being at home separated. When I'm on the computer or iPad, I have to be very careful when my 6 year old comes in asking me to do something with him. I have to clear everything on the pc, clear iPad etc if I can't bring it with me. Typing this on iPhone with my fat fingers takes the whole lunch break

Amoafwl, just wow at the info, thank you so much. You are right, I knew I should not have been baited and instead of just stopping I had to keep pushing knowing we will be on this rollercoaster ride for a long time. I know I have a lot of work ahead of me. I can't take back what I said... but I can dust myself off and continue to educate myself and really learn, not just read but absorb all the info and advice. I need to STFU, and make it a habit to come here to learn, share, decompress , get away from W and GAL. When the bomb dropped I was really weak and said we. Like he together for the kids, try anything, do anything, and now I felt ashamed and felt like I needed to let her know how I felt but you're right. I should have done way better at validation and knowing it isnt about me or trying to fix things. I really need a lot of help with ALL of this from validation, to boundaries, to self control, GAL, everything and knowing and learning about my sitch and what to expect and how to better handle the sitch like when in doubt maybe I need to keep quiet instead of always trying to have an answer for everything. Thank you.

[neffer]

That´s what it is Adam. You need to take your TIME.

Keep reading, keep posting!

[MoveFrwd]

I need to STFU

Yeah.....most of us need to learn that. Make sure you stock up on STFU Smoothies

make it a habit to come here to learn, share, decompress , get away from W and GAL.

GAL is maybe THE most important thing you can do for yourself right now. Evry time you are hanging around at home while shes there it's pressure on her. And you wind up right back into long discussions and so on.

When the bomb dropped I was really weak and said we. Like he together for the kids, try anything, do anything, and now I felt ashamed and felt like I needed to let her know how I felt but you're right.

Let go of the past. We've all been there.

After finding phone records of my ex-wife and OM talking for over an hour every day for months, I remember texting her things like "just promise me I have nothing to worry about and Ill drop it". Like....how weak is that? But nothing I can do about it now. So I forgave myself for not knowing what I didnt know. And I have worked to make sure that these ar things I know now.

I should have done way better at validation and knowing it isnt about me or trying to fix things.

It takes practice and effort and research. Can you do particle physics? If not, would you expect t be able to answer complicated problems from reading one textbook? I mean, probably not. It takes years of study, effort, practice and so on. While admittedly far less complicated, validation takes time to develop your skill. It wont happen over night.

maybe I need to keep quiet instead of always trying to have an answer for everything. Thank you.

Someone told me once that right now, you see the sky as blue and she sees it as green. No amount of talking on your end is going to convince her that it is blue. Validation is about trying to see through her eyes rather than try to figure out what is right. Or true. Her perception is her reality. However that manifests itself. Dont try to impose your reality on to her.

[sandi2]

Okay, I hope people will stay balanced when reading this post. I notice how many newcomer nice guys put so much focus on validating their wayward W. Not only should he not validate everything she says, but I think he needs to focus a little less on validating someone who would disrespect him and want to walk away from their family/marriage. He should focus more on how to show strength and dignity, while commanding respect (not that validating is a sign of weakness, but it's how the WW often sees it). I've seen some men so focused on validating, they actually fail to recognize the disrespect his WW is showing him. She may be slaughtering him, and his mind if on how he can validate her. That's just crazy to me!

When a man is trying to validate a wayward woman every time she opens her mouth, it could make him appear like an a$$ kisser in her eyes......which is the last thing in the world he needs to do. She hears it as if he is giving her sympathy, justification, and/or agreement.....and that's not the message she should be receiving during the time she's trying to break up the MR. (They are called "wayward" for a reason!) Sometimes, when guys first read about validation, they do it so much that it becomes a turnoff to her, b/c he overkills. I'm not saying the H can't ever validate her, but I'm saying that's not the most important thing he needs to be doing when she's being unfaithful. I know the validation advice is passed around a lot, just like GAL and 180's, but why some LBS's think they should validate every sentence the wayward spouse utters, ……..is beyond me. Sometimes, it shows more strength when a man just looks at the woman and listens. He doesn't have to say anything. Know what I mean?

[Adam04]

Sandi, thank you for the 2x4 and your invaluable insight and time you've taken to give me advice. I had not been able to respond adequately to some of the questions and I have had to reread what you've said. The issue with me is that I was in denial thinking I had a WAW and not WW. I mean I knew and after BD, I told her I would rather sleep in the car and shower at work than to get her help on anything... then the thought of hurting the kids clouded my judgement.

When I picked up the DR book I was also reading something else which didn't specifically address WW. I was learning to 180, GAL, and working on communication from another book. Nothing I had come across until your posts put me in her head. Reading some of the information on what we could immediately do to "help" was the validation and 180. Because I thought I wasn't good at it and needed practice, because I thought this was something immediate I could work on with her(because I think men in my shoes still want that connection with WW, any connection where we think we are doing something right) I took every opportunity to try but you are right, there were times when I should not have said anything and just listened. There were times I felt like I was forced to say something because if I didn't I wasn't working to to make some kind of progress. Sometimes I was working against my better judgement and instinct to follow it "textbook". Part of the 180 was showing I cared, trying to open up, carry on this dialogue rather than not be involved.

In short,I was hung up on learning about dealing with a WAW that I thought some of those processes are the same in dealing with a WW.

Also i haven't completed the WW series which I am going to do tonight. I am here at work in the gym taking some time for myself, working out and responding.

When I got affirmation I was dealing with a WW I was a little sad for a moment and then I felt better knowing to follow my gut instinct.

To answer some of your questions, no, W and I never had an agreeement on who we can tell in the family of our Sitch. i need to read the rules again on that ... I haven't even told my mother or other ppl I am close to. Only one brother out of a few siblings, close friend, and few ppl at work. I stopped talking to them after coming here.

Also I looked for a few attorneys and got numbers but haven't called any yet. Can I ask, what are your thoughts on LBS contesting if there is a D? Like in this case if she wants more than fair , contest? I'm thinking the process will be simple but I don't know what to expect so feel free to chime in on this process. I initially thought if she never came clean I would contest to get it on record there was infidelity and request copies of texts. The part of me that wants to heal past that says it's not worth it, but aside from the emotions, is there any other reason I should contest or say that there was infidelity to protect myself legally?

Another thing, we are splitting finances responsibly but it may be a while if i can move out on my own but if I have the opportunity, what is the consensus on moving out to successfully DB vs staying with IHS? I think as I learn how to be better at GAL and losing my emotional attachment to her while in house, she may be getting used to it and it not have a stronger effect as mentioned earlier by Maximus.

Maximus, thank you for that info on the challenge with IHS.

[Adam04]

From Guide for LBH who has a Wayward Wife

That leads me to the second part. As the rejected party, the H cannot enable her in this terrible, disrespectful behavior. Every time he does, it will set him back. Before he can show her what a wonderful & improved H he wants to be, he has to prove what kind of man he is. All of this still comes under the heading of DBing.

From Guide for LBH who has a Wayward Wife 4

For DBing to be successful, the LBH needs to come down HARD on the WAW because the emotional allure is like a powerful riptide tearing her and the M asunder.

From action list before DB forum:

2-LOSE YOUR FEAR of WAW. Reclaim your balls back from her purse.
3-Pull out the "not willing to live in an open M/no-OM boundary" script.

( I need more information on all the above, are there breakdowns of what these mean and what specific actions to do/NOT do?)

I had skimmed this before and was skimming to find the actions to match but had not so I interpreted that in my own way and made a declaration or this "Stand" to my wife before running it by the board as Sandi requested, my bad! I had jumped the gun when I made my stand to W on what type of person I am. I really meant to let you all know that I was telling her I wasn't scared to lose her, to let her know I was not wavering in my voice, I am serious. The only time there is hurt was when I talked about the kids. I knew what she was doing. Yes I know I said too much but it also felt good to let her know I wasn't scared to lose her. When I realized I was becoming like her as in losing this emotion of love or not putting emphasis on it for now, I wondered if I was in the right place, on the right forum. I was expecting to look elsewhere for help with my kids and how to help them navigate this rough time, what to say to them and all that, but I had to take a step back(expect nothing I said...expect nothing and I might gain everything...expect everything and I might gain nothing), I still have a lot to learn from every wonderful person here who will help me not just in this sitch but in my life, for the rest of my life. So I'm here writing blocks of text as you all already have witnessed. (I will be working on paraphrasing too, just saying for those alrdy saying get to the point, :))

Is it normal to feel like shutting down and not wanting it to work because of how this will affect the kids? I really don't know if I can forgive her for that. I feel like I want to ride this out like a free ride and at the end when we sell the house, I get what's mine and I'm good...I don't know, maybe I'm just too much of an angry person so I need to WOOSAH.

As for the actions? Now that I've read more of the WW posts(not able to read all the replies yet but will at some point), I'm not going to fall for those things I was doing before. When my 6 year old says daddy hug mommy, or daddy do this, I am not going to entertain that but will deflect. She has, so will I. She temp checks, she can get burned like frostburn. When she wants to discuss things about us or anything that can lead to us, not going to take the bait. When she texts, not going to jump on it. Maybe not even respond like tonight when I was working out. When she's here, I leave to the room. Instead of her making my morning coffee, I'm going to tell her to make sure it has 2 spoons of sugar, always. No seriously, I'll be doing that. As for laundry, she still does mine.... I .. will.... tell... her … not... to...do...that... anymore /sadface. When it comes to buying meals or dinner, I might tell her no need. Of course I need guidance on a few of these things. These are just actions saying, I am not dependent on you, I don't need you to do this for me or I am not going to be sitting around like a little puppy waiting for you except if it's sex. J/K.


Where's that list of MOJO-REJUVE? That's what I need. Going back to above paragraph...Definitely wont be catering to her but sometimes in the past we went out and she'd say I'm not bringing my wallet... is this the time to let her know we will be going dutch? I pay for the kids and myself and she pays her own? Even though I say we're splitting finances, she's still paying a bit more so its not like total 50/50 so I think she feels its okay when we split who pays the meals, sometimes she does, other times I do. Can this work fine or is that still working as a unit when right now, it has to be total solo?

(In between typing this was also reading the WW series and the Reflections. I do have questions like in the past when she said, "I am wanting to go with my friend for the weekend to the company yearly golf event" if I said I don't agree with it and she insists, what can I do at that point besides trying to rationalize with her? What are other actions besides using our words can we take? Can't hold out on the sex... handcuffs and whip? but on a serious note, I always do appreciate the responses and advice.

This is coming up...

She wants for both of us to drive our boys to an out of town Christmas light show next week. I said sure thinking about the holidays may be the exception for family time.. Thanksgiving is coming up and we will be doing a small family get together. Are there posts on the best way to handle these events? The Christmas light show, since I said yes, cant back out now right? She told me in advance that there's two company holiday parties she was invited to and has told me about. When she was working from home on my computer the other day, she had her Citrix up and I saw the company email... go ahead and let her do her own thing and not care or is this where we put our foot down? This is the confusing part, We stop the disrespect if she says something, I get we challenge but what about the other stuff like the going out, the events? How do we come down hard regarding those things with her time and how/where/who she wants to spend it with? Sandi, didn't earlier you say get a schedule and we use that for things like this? Don't question her, don't do nothing about where she goes etc right? Is this coming down hard, meaning we can care less what she does? By showing her we don't care, she'll care? But when it comes to words, we check the disrespect? Need more info on this, I think I asked above.... Need to know when we check her disrespect, what's appropriate and what is not, like what's over the top. Anyone got any scenarios to run on what's not too mild or crazy over the top?