Is this a normal response to a 180?

[Twofeet]

Ok this may sound harsh but it is not my intent. Forget it, there is probably nothing you can say to change his mind. Trying to change my W mind was/is like trying to stop a charging bull, you are just going to get run over. DB is probably the best way to save yourself and any chance for a R with H either pre- or post-D. It really sux but that's the way the chips fall.

We went the mediator route. While I am against D, I felt the mediator route was the best damage control. Our mediator was also a L. He told me in my private interview that I don't have to do this. I don't have to meditate, I don't have to participate in the D. Cdd just remember it takes 2 to M but only one to D so if H is going to drag you into it you have to weigh your options and do what's best for you.
Good luck, I will say a prayer for you.

[cdd1976]

Thank you. I did meet up with him in the evening after he put the kids to bed (he lives a quarter mile from me).

He said, as in his text, that we could mediate and then file. Or, we could file and go to court. He said he wasn’t going to screw me over, that I’m going to get at least 50% of the house and other assets, alimony, child support, etc. He said he told his lawyer he values getting it done right and amicably over getting it done fast. I told him I need to think about things and talk to my lawyer and I would get back to him.

I probably should have left it at that but I just felt I had to say more. I told him I don’t want a divorce. That we made a commitment and I’m not quitting. I validated all his reasons for leaving and said I understood where I went wrong and apologized for my part, but I said know we both went wrong in this relationship. He apologized too but said he felt we already tried to make it work, which I disagreed with in that it took him 3 years to tell me how unhappy he was and then another year to explain why, but at that point, the affair had already started. He still stands by his belief that he tried so hard to communicate.

He said that I seem to think he wants the single life or that he doesn’t want to be a full time husband and dad, which he said makes him angry. He said he never wanted to be divorced but that it’s too late for us because he loves me but not as a spouse, though he is still very attracted to me. In the early days of our separation he used to say that he’d probably end up losing me to someone and he’d regret it. I said that to him last night and instead of saying he would he said “I know you think that.”

He then brought up me and other men. He really believes I’m seeing other men because I go out a lot. In his mind, I guess if he would do it then of course wouldn’t I too? He said he’s been waiting “for the other shoe to drop.” I asked what he meant and he said he’s expecting I’ll soon say something like “I have a boyfriend and he’s moving in,” which made me wonder if his interest in filing for divorce got spurred by his fear of the tables being turned. Again I told him I wasn’t sleeping with other men , which he then criticized me and said “Why not? It’s like you’re asexual.” That ties into his crticisms of me being boring in bed.

I didn’t ask what was going on with the OW and if he still talks to her or if she’s reconciled with herH. I didn’t ask if there was a new OW. I don’t feel like he is seeing someone because he had. Den so focused and jealous about what I was doing. Then again, though I had a feeling, I didn’t realize he was having an affair for a year. My Spidey senses are obviously off.

I’ve always felt he was having an MLC, but during this conversation I started to think that maybe he wasn’t. Maybe he just didn’t want to be with me anymore.

When he first moved out he said he still had hope. There were days where he’d say he probably would come back. That in the short term he wasn’t coming back but long term, who knows. Last night he agreed with me when I said no one knows what will happen in the future, but he also said he is never coming back. My heart hurts but I also partly feel I am better off. He didn’t treat me well. That I’m just scared of being on my own so I coming to the known.

I know D doesn’t mean it’s totally over, and I have a few months before it’s finalized. I just feel like maybe I’m delusional thinking there is still hope. In the end, detaching and giving up are probably the best things to do.

[Ready2Change]

Understand all your legal rights. Understand the tax consequence to the value of things.


Agree to mediation. (I would do it Pro Se)

You can mediate over multiple sessions. You can defer the mediation.

PLEASE USE THESE WORDS:

"I need time to process what you have said"
"I need time to review what you are proposing"
"I am still working on that"
"I need time to bla bla bla"

This should have been your answer:
"I am busy tonight , so meeting tonight does not work for me. I will review my schedule and let you know a good time."

[cdd1976]

I woke up this morning with that anxious feeling and my heart racing. I used to wake up like this the first three months back in June, July and August. If stopped in September when I was starting to feel stronger and started a 180. Now it’s back.

My mind goes back and forth between thinking I want to be with him and I don’t want to be with him because he didn’t treat me well. That what I’m missing is the comfort of what I knew and having someone, anyone around. What I’m fearing is the unknown.

I didn’t contact him via text yesterday. I did, in the afternoon, send him an email with our nanny’s updated schedule, which he had been expecting. I told him our nanny might take the kids Saturday night when it’s my night with the kids because her daughter wants to take them to Disney on Ice for her birthday. Given that, I wasn’t going to wait around while they went and would likely attend a banquet that would bring me home late. Thus, the kids would sleep at her house (our parenting plan requires we inform the other parent if the kids are sleeping at someone else’s house). He replied “The kids are spending a lot of time at her house. I would take them but I’m going out of town this weekend.” His judgemental comment about the kids spending a lot of time at their nanny’s house irked me because it’s really not true. I wondered if me mentioning a banquet I was attending spurred it. His comment that he’s going out of town stirred the “Where is he going and with who?” thoughts in my head. I did not reply or react, though, and left it at that.

Someone tell me that D isn’t the end. Anyone have or heard of R stories after divorce or during the divorce process?

[cdd1976]

So I got some possibly hopeful feedback from him today...Maybe it's not hopeful, I don't know. But I was surprised by his answer.

As you may recall, he said he wanted to know if I wanted to mediate and then file or he'll just file and we go to court. I told him I need to talk to my lawyer. I have a call with her tomorrow. However, a few months ago, my lawyer had brought up legal separation. I didn't bring it up to him then but I decided to do so today. I told him that it's an option instead of divorce. That I realize it wouldn't be forever but that divorce wasn't what I wanted. I said legal separation would allow us to have a judge sign off on our parenting plan (we have it, it's just not signed) and for us to formalize financial plan. I thought he would say no, that he just wanted a divorce.

He replied and said he's open to it "as a first step." Ok...maybe that comment wasn't as hopeful. Not sure if he means as a first step to help get me to being ok with divorce, but anyhow. He said he had never heard of legal separation and really what he's looking for is for us to formalize the finances because he feels us having two households right now we are burning through money. I didn't say this but my thought was, we'd still be spending the same amount if we formalize the financial plan because we still have the mortgage and his rental and I still am not working. But anyhow. I did not expect him to say he was open to it yet he did.

Five minutes later he said that he was researching online and wasn't sure legal separation would be a good idea because I'd still be on his health plan, we'd file taxes together, etc. But he said he would talk to his lawyer about it. So I don't know what mindset his lawyer has on legal separation, but I think whatever his lawyer recommends he'll probably go with.

Anyhow, I thought it was hopeful that he wasn't absolutely dead set on divorce. Though some may say I'm just prolonging the inevitable and it doesn't necessarily mean that divorce isn't the end game for him. But still. I guess it helps me psychologically.

[sjohns6]

Hi there cdd. I haven't posted to you before, I tend to hang out in the MLC section as I've been at this for a couple years now. I just spent a little time and read up on your situation. Your H is really giving you the run around. My W had me up and down too.

I'd like to first say that it DOES sound like your H is having a mid life melt down. His actions are not normal and people don't just do this kind of thing. I don't think he just fell out of love with you. You did not break him, therefor you can not fix him. This is all his stuff he has to own. As much as you love him, you do not want him as he is. You want what he was, or what he may become, but you do not want him as he is right now. He doesn't deserve you right now. Even if there was a part you played that you could have been better at, you are human. Not one of us is perfect and neither are any of our relationships. It is not and never was your fault for the decisions he made and is still making.

Detaching is hard. I read so much about it and I could tell you everything there was to know, but I couldn't do it. I faked it, but it was a real struggle to actually get there. You need to cut yourself some slack in that regard. Detaching is something that you need to do for your own healing, not to get any kind of reaction from your H. I don't know how many times I heard that, but I was still doing it to initiate change in W. You will stumble in this, but no 1 thing you do is going to break the whole thing. You make mistakes and learn from them and adjust. Your goal right now needs to be to become stronger again and heal from all that has happened. You are going to have a hard time with that while being so focused on your H. You love him. You know that, I know that, he knows that. Rest assured that he knows you love him and don't want a D...so let go of that in your head and focus on you and the kids. He will kick and scream at times, and he will be loving at times. You may get a little distant and that may cause him to be angry...so what. He needs to go through this and nothing you are going to do it going to stop it.

The marriage you knew and the relationship you had with H is over. A new one may develop, and that might be a good thing, but he killed the relationship and marriage. That is not on you, but it is something that we all have to learn to accept. Lots of MLCers initiate divorce only to never go through with it. Others talk about it but never actually file. Some of them do go through with it, but then reconcile later. And then there are some that actually go through with it and they stay divorced. From what I've read, it seems like the highest percentage of results in the MLC world is the MLC spouse that eventually comes out of the tunnel and wants to reconcile, but the LBS has moved on and doesn't want to anymore. That means that we often end up making the final decision. As for him not being dead set on divorce. No, I imagine not. I am willing to bet he isn't sure of ANYTHING. Thats the problem with people in MLC, they have no idea what they want, they just know they aren't happy and are trying to fix that. The problem is that they search externally for that happiness when its really something missing from inside of them.

There are a few threads on this board that I end up reading over and over that really help me gain perspective. There was a poster named Stayed who reconciled with her H after some time. At some point she had him write a letter which is still posted. If you haven'tread it, you should. Also, check out Amy C's posts too. I believe those are listed in th welcome post you get after your first post. Also, Happy_again. He was a MLCer that came to the boards here and posted to people. His posts are interesting to read too as it really gives a good look in to the mindset of a person in MLC. You can find his if you google "happy agains old posts".

Sorry to have hijacked your thread a bit. I get a little long winded sometimes. I hope you are having a good day today.

[cdd1976]

Thanks sjohns6. I really appreciate the feedback. I do actually think my H is going through an early mid-life crisis (he's 38). I didn't mention in my introductory post that when things got really bad between us, about three years ago, he started going to the gym, losing weight, buying new/stylish clothes, buying new underwear, trimming his chest hair, got a tattoo, and bought a motorcycle. If that's not typical MLC, I don't know what is.

I've read Stayed's husband's letter. It was really helpful. I'll check out the other posts.

Sometimes I want to kick myself because I feel like I had the opportunity to really detach and do a 180 and I got caught in his game. In September when I stopped the begging and pleading, I really should have also cut off communication with him. But him going back and forth with me, acting jealous, then acting nice and asking me to come over for family dinner, pulled me back in every week. I was afraid to ignore him or say no, thinking he'd get angry and file for divorce. Well...guess it didn't stop him because now we're on the brink of it.

[cdd1976]

I'm struggling so much these last few weeks. I think I'm even more disappointed because I thought I was in a better place back in September. I don't think I really felt the reality of the situation until now. So now I truly feel it could be the end and I'm having a hard time detaching and doing the wrong things.

Wednesday night he had the kids. He said he was going to have a dinner party with several people - men and women - while the kids were there. It made me jealous. Then, I had a call with my lawyer about what path to take - legal separation vs divorce, mediation vs court. I was supposed to call him after to discuss my decision but I was too emotional. I sent him a text and said I'm not in a good place right now and want to talk to tomorrow. He replied with "The kids love you and I love you too." Ugh. Later that night he started sending me text messages asking how I was doing. I didn't respond, which is not typical of me, so he called me. I didn't answer. He started to get worried and sent me a frantic text asking me to respond. I waited until later in the evening and just told him I was fine and just needed my space.

Yesterday evening I went over to his house to discuss finances and divorce. He made dinner, which I wasn't expecting, because the other day he said we could talk for 30 minutes and then I could go. He put off having the discussion until after dinner and the kids were asleep. He was surprisingly understanding about the finances. He tends to be so sweet and loving in person vs over the phone. I thought he was going to flip a lid because the other day he sent me an angry email about how we're spending too much money as two households and wanted to know where all the money was going. He said he knows we have a lot of expenses and I'm trying to get a job so he understands. At the same time, he said that's the reason why we need to sell the house, because it's too expensive. I didn't show my emotions but it hurt to hear that he's so ready to let go of our home. I then told him my decision was to legally separate and I'm open to mediation first. I asked if he talked to his lawyer about legal separation vs divorce and he said not yet, which I was surprised by since he had been pushing me to make a decision. He also told me he loved me several times but would often add "You're the mother of my children." I feel like he always has to qualify it with that so I don't think he's "in love" with me.

He also slipped and told me that he had his guy friend over for dinner last night. I kind of chuckled to myself because he forgot that he told me he was having "men and women" over. I realized he was just trying to make me jealous.

I was getting tired, and he told me to come upstairs with him. I could sleep over since I was tired and he'd "keep me warm." Ok, I'm not a fool and I knew where this would lead. So I was weak and I went upstairs and we slept together. He said really sweet things but, at the same time, he said it again "I can have you whenever I want." He also said a few times "You're still mine you know." He also said that even though he's been accusing me of being with other men, he knows that I'm too much of a good girl and I'm actually not. He said he doesn't actually believe it...so weird.

I left early in the morning before the kids woke up. I have the kids this weekend and he's going out of town. It kills me not knowing where he's going and if he's going with someone. I really do believe he's not seeing anyone right now given the way he behaves with me both when I have the kids and when he has the kids (though yes I realize he probably has slept with other people). But I know he could easily meet someone and then I fear I will be worse off.

I know that what we focus on gets bigger. I know I need to stop focusing on him, on if he's dating someone, on divorce. I need to think positive. I need to detach, 180, continue to GAL, and act as if I am moving on (or actually, move on) but this is so hard. I thought I was 180'ing but I realized yesterday when he told me he doesn't believe I'm with other men that he truly thinks I'm just pining away for him and anything I'm doing right now that's different is really for him, to get his attention and make him jealous. Everyday I wake up and tell myself that starting now it's going to be different. I did that today and I want to commit to it and make these changes for me, not him.

Anyone out there who has truly done this successfully? Or any of those who are now piecing who can provide words of encouragement?

Thanks for reading my long post. It helps to get it all out.

[Davide]

cdd,

I'm struggling so much these last few weeks. I think I'm even more disappointed because I thought I was in a better place back in September. I don't think I really felt the reality of the situation until now. So now I truly feel it could be the end and I'm having a hard time detaching and doing the wrong things.

Hang in there. There are always going to be ebbs and flows, good days and bad days. That's normal and to be expected. The trick is in not letting yourself get swept away by a tidal wave of emotions on the bad days. As time goes on the number of bad days should decrease, and the lows won't feel as low. Give yourself time. You are still early in this. Also, from my experience, I remember thinking that I was doing fine, but then being blindsided at a certain point by the realization and acceptance that the relationship was really over and being struck by the awareness that there was really no hope. That was about four months into my sitch and it triggered a pretty deep depression that I had to work myself out of. I think it is normal to fool oneself for a while that we are detaching when somewhere deep down we are still clinging to the past. Getting past that is necessary but it isn't pleasant.

I was getting tired, and he told me to come upstairs with him. I could sleep over since I was tired and he'd "keep me warm." Ok, I'm not a fool and I knew where this would lead. So I was weak and I went upstairs and we slept together. He said really sweet things but, at the same time, he said it again "I can have you whenever I want." He also said a few times "You're still mine you know." He also said that even though he's been accusing me of being with other men, he knows that I'm too much of a good girl and I'm actually not. He said he doesn't actually believe it...so weird.

More disturbing than the sleeping together are the comments he made. He couldn't be any more certain of his complete power over you in this situation. I can't imagine any emotionally stable person making comments like that. So long as you keep gifting him that power over you I doubt your sitch will change for the better. Years ago after dating a woman for 6 months I wanted to break up with her, but she resisted. We ended up in bed together (dumb decision on my part) and we fooled around and fooled around until she stopped me and let me know that I wasn't going to get any unless I agreed to keep on dating her. She was trying to use sex to control me, to take back power. I refused, and then refused to take her calls or see her for the next 6 months. It felt so blatantly manipulative that it only reinforced my decision to end the relationship. I wasn't going to give her that power, and neither should you.

I know that what we focus on gets bigger. I know I need to stop focusing on him, on if he's dating someone, on divorce. I need to think positive. I need to detach, 180, continue to GAL, and act as if I am moving on (or actually, move on) but this is so hard. I thought I was 180'ing but I realized yesterday when he told me he doesn't believe I'm with other men that he truly thinks I'm just pining away for him and anything I'm doing right now that's different is really for him, to get his attention and make him jealous. Everyday I wake up and tell myself that starting now it's going to be different. I did that today and I want to commit to it and make these changes for me, not him.

You clearly know what the right course of action is, but knowing it and acting on it aren't always the same thing. I know how hard it can be to get out of your own head. One of the mantras that has guided me and helped me over the past few months of my sitch is "Action precedes motivation." Just start doing something, even if (perhaps especially) if you don't feel like it, whether it is exercising or going out with friends, or even just taking care of things in the house. More often than not the motivation will come after you have started to act. I can't count the number of times I have forced myself to get off the couch and go to the gym despite not wanting to do anything other than curl up into a ball on the couch, and I almost always end up enjoying myself more once I am there. Getting your body moving will also help quiet your mind and allow you to focus on the present moment rather than scrambling down those cheeseless tunnels.

[AnotherStander]

More disturbing than the sleeping together are the comments he made. He couldn't be any more certain of his complete power over you in this situation. I can't imagine any emotionally stable person making comments like that. So long as you keep gifting him that power over you I doubt your sitch will change for the better.

Exactly what I was thinking, the comments are indeed quite disturbing and kind of scary. It sounds like he may be all about control and manipulation. CDD, I would suggest you take sex off the table. Try to stay away from him as much as possible. When you are around him keep convos strictly business-like. I'm not sure what's going on with him but some alarm bells are going off in the back of my head.

I thought I was 180'ing but I realized yesterday when he told me he doesn't believe I'm with other men that he truly thinks I'm just pining away for him and anything I'm doing right now that's different is really for him, to get his attention and make him jealous. Everyday I wake up and tell myself that starting now it's going to be different. I did that today and I want to commit to it and make these changes for me, not him.

At first GAL is an act and they know it's an act. You've just got to keep doing it until it's no longer an act, it is you getting on with your life. THAT is when they start to worry they'll lose you.