Finding the Balance and then Tipping the Scale

[Cadet]

Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.

Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.

It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.

We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.

Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.

[Adam04]

Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.

Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.

It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.

We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.

Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.

When I created the account I made sure to delete history and search history from the pc after every use. Is there a rule on the number of times I can post , like if it's after someone responds then it's okay but if I post then want to add more, Should I edit my previous post to include additional info, is that the norm? Can I reply to everyone in one post and then do a separate blog or keep it all in one, responses and blogging?

I have the DB book at home in a drawer and the DR in the car I drive. I'll try to find a good place for the books, the one at home is in my clothes drawer so she won't go there unless she is snooping.

Thanks for the advice.

[sandi2]

Thanks for trying to answer our questions. You are not alone, b/c there are other men here who know exactly what you are going through and the feelings you are experiencing. Continue to read the WW threads, and ask any questions you may have.

Since this living arrangement is suppose to be a "separation", and if you don't plan to move into the new house, have you talked with a lawyer to get legal counsel? Does she intend to pay the expenses of running the new house? Who will pay the mortgage, etc.? I suggest you make a list of concerns and talk to a lawyer to see where you stand and what options you can take in protecting yourself financially, and get at least 50% time with your kids.

Not everyone agrees with what I am about to suggest, so take it for FWIW to you. Your W is wayward, has asked for a divorce, has established an "in-house" separation, etc. WW's have to experience the reality of their decisions, in order for them to clearly see the destruction they have caused. They have to experience consequences of those decisions. An in-house separation is the epitome of cake eating for the WW. She has what she wants from both her worlds. Therefore, the WW should have a taste of what her life without you would be like. Instead of you trying to spend more time with her, engage in more family activities with her, communicate more through texts, etc...…….you pull back as far as possible. When you are home, you fill up your time with the children. If the W is home for the evening, you get out of the house. It's none of her business how you spend your personal time......b/c you are separated. You don't tell her where you're going, or with whom, or when you will be home. Same applies for when she goes out. As long as both of you can be reached by phone (in case of emergency), you ask no personal questions. You don't wait up until she gets home. You turn off all the lights, lock the doors, and go to bed.

The point is that she said she wants her independence...….so you are going to give it to her. The WW is incredibly selfish, and she thinks everything revolves around her. She no longer is logical minded, b/c she operates from her emotions, based on however she's feeling at any given moment. That alone, shows how unstable she is. She has not seriously considered losing her H, completely. She sees herself moving on with some lifestyle, maybe with OM, but in the back of her mind.....she wants to keep H emotionally attached to her. That doesn't mean she desires him as a man/husband, it just means she doesn't want him finding someone to replace her. She wants him to be her BFF, and for him to never fall in love with anyone else. Crazy, huh?

So, whenever you see her throw a crumb or two (referring to the new house as "our" house, touching your hand, etc.) don't go bananas. It is simply her tactic to keep you emotionally attached to her. She will also check your emotional temperature quite often, to reassure herself that you are still attached to her. Like when she reached over to put her hand on your hand...….you saw that as some "signal" and later tried to get a little closer, and she shut you down cold. That's b/c she saw you were still very much interested in her. The WW is so self centered, she has to see that her H no longer is interested in her. He's not going to jump on her crumbs, b/c he doesn't want them. In fact, he acts as if he is the one dumping her, rather than her dumping him. If he'll really do this, it will be the beginning of drawing her respect for him. Before he can show what an improved husband he can be, he has to gain her respect by showing that he doesn't need, nor want, her. This may not make sense to you, but it's what the WW needs to think, and that's why the LBH can't win her back when he's the one trying to convince her to give him another chance. He has to show that he respects himself too much to settle for crumbs. Although, his heart may be aching, he doesn't let her see. All she sees is the man she set free and he is moving on without her.....and he's okay. He is self confident, GAL, and is not dependent of anything she may offer. She has put this attractive man on the market. She starts having second thoughts.



If you are saving money to afford a place to live (for you and the kids) and another vehicle, then you probably need to consider separating your banking accounts, so that you have a private account she can't access. Sorry to say, you cannot trust her. I think I previously read something about you removing your name from the new house. Is that correct? Are you financing the building of the new house? Please consult a lawyer about it. Anyway, She has a good paying job, so she should not have access to your private account. The expenses to run the current home, should be divided fairly...….if they are not already set up that way. Like I said, you need to talk to a lawyer about everything.

[Adam04]

Sandi, I was detaching and working on trying to identify what is happening as it occurs in real time so I can best handle it like if there is an opportunity to validate, I would, or if there is a potential argument, I'll not get baited all while detaching and at the same time using last resort efforts.

Before I go all the way I need to know how to fully proceed when the kids are involved. Is it her responsibility to do everything for them or do we communicate etc?? I know she last lost the respect and I am inclined to give this a shot but I'll need a lot more information on how to best go about this. I feel like and I may be wrong that if I try his and I flounder, she'll see right through it.

[Adam04]

Yesterday W and her siblings during dinner said that they wanted to take their mother out for dinner tonight. W earlier today texts me a very short and to the point text on where it’s at and that she is picking up her mom. W stayed home with my 6 year old since he was sick last night. I had been having a stomach bug from what I ate yesterday and wasn’t sure if I was going to go. After work today W FaceTimes me smiling and happy since she picked up her mom and asked if I wanted her to pick up the older one from school. I said sure and thanks since she was close by the school and I just left work. I originally was going to pick him up while she stayed home with the little one.

I get home, say hi to her mother, who doesn’t know our situation, and tell W that I won’t be able to make it after she tells me the older son doesn’t want to go to dinner. I tell her both boys can stay home with me and that I have a stomach ache. I go to the room and shut the door. I’m changing and in the master bathroom for a bit then she comes in with a puzzled but smiling look saying had she known I was going to stay she would not have picked up her mom and she would have stayed home. I told her sorry but I wasn’t sure either and that it was a last minute decision based on how bad my stomach felt on the drive home. Plus, where they were going to eat wasn’t going to be good for my stomach.

I encouraged her to take her mom since they all agreed. They knew she wanted to get out the house, plus they decided that without my involvement. She tried to refute my saying no I wasn’t going by saying something to the effect of I was part of the family, which did surprise me and I think I had some sort of confused smiling look trying to validate how she felt, all I can remember was saying sorry I couldn’t go and for her not to worry they’ll have a great time taking her mother out. In my mind, I’m thinking I’m part of the family yet here we are going through this divorce. I felt like she was overstepping an emotional boundary about our family and where we stood, saying this now but able to disregard it on a whim. I know what she meant like in previous conversation when she had a voice and we talked a couple months back, she said I will always be a part of the family and in the boy’s lives. I’m allowing myself to read her words differently. She’s not talking about her and me, us...

They leave and I’m home with the boys. In a couple hours, W comes back after she takes her mom home. I’m thinking in my head what if W thought I was distancing myself by not going and is she going to temp check me. She asked me if I had eaten and I said no. I was surfing movies on the TV and she saw a new movie come out and asked can we buy it and watch it together. I said sure if you make popcorn and she said yes. She sits next to me and we share the popcorn, she’s talking and I’m responding and I feel once she thought we were “good” she checked out, recoiling back to the other side of the couch, stopped talking as if she had seen a ghost and was back to this distant being. I was not surprised of this behavior, and it felt like she was seeing if I would pick up the crumbs and once I did she got what she wanted.

I am seriously thinking about what Sandi2 is saying on how to act towards a WW.

[neffer]

You got what Sandi wrote, right?

So, go and read again Sandi’s post and print it. The way you should behave is there.

It’s a marathon Adam, be patient. Stay strong.

[lost8]

Hey Adam, listen to what is said here especially sandi, she knows what the WW is thinking and how our actions affect her. I am in in house separation as well and it is difficult. I agree with not being around when she is, get out and do something. It is forced at first but it gets a little easier as you go. Do some things you always wanted to do meet some new people.

My WW just started an at home job so she is around all the time. I struggle when she wants to cake eat and I have to slap myself every few days to get back to taking care of me. The WW or WAS thinks in such a bizarre way it will drive you nuts to try and get in her head.

Keep posting and listen to what is said if you want to see if you can work things out.

[sandi2]

I know she last lost the respect and I am inclined to give this a shot but I'll need a lot more information on how to best go about this. I feel like and I may be wrong that if I try his and I flounder, she'll see right through it.

Currently you just need to focus on learning as much as you can about the subject of wayward W's. I'll help you with the respect factor, the mindset of the WW, etc., if I can. I'm not entirely sure what you mean by her seeing through it if you flounder. What she sees through is if you go into Super Husband mode, trying to kiss her a$$, and compromising your values in order to hold on to her. You can't just pretend to let her go, you really have to let go of her emotionally. She would be the first to tell you (but she won't) that if you were a "real man" (no offense), you would have kicked her out instead of letting her call the shots……..and if you had been suspected of cheating and giving her a bunch of bs, you KNOW how she would have reacted! If things were reversed, she would not wait for the 8x10 glossy photos, before you felt the door hit you. You know that, right? She would not tolerate you doing the same things that she's done. Anyway, you are here now and we are going to do our best to give you information, advice, and support.

I need to know how to fully proceed when the kids are involved. Is it her responsibility to do everything for them or do we communicate etc??

No, it is not her responsibility to do everything for the kids, and neither is it yours. It's a shared responsibility, but some things will be done separately. While under the same roof, try to make things as comfortable for the kids as possible. Don't expose them to quarrels between you and WW, and things of that nature. Continue having your meals around the family table, but avoid going out "as a family" with your WW if possible. There needs to be a shared calendar and a schedule, even though the two of you are under the same roof. She wants a separation, and this is what separated/divorced couples do. They have a schedule as to what parent will have the kids on what dates, who will pick up and deliver kids to school, etc. While living in a in-house Separation, the schedule would be more to do with which parent would be free to make plans to go out, and which one would be staying home with the kids that evening. That's not to imply that the other parent can't interact with the kids, eat dinner with them, etc. Keep the lines of communication open about the kids. Don't use the kids as an excuse to contact the WW, but if it's necessary, then contact her. (BTW, don't be surprised to see her use them as an excuse to contact you, as well as use them to try and make you feel guilty or anyway she can use to her benefit.) We'll talk more about that later. In the meantime, if you have questions.....just ask.

I get home, say hi to her mother, who doesn’t know our situation,...……….

She tried to refute my saying no I wasn’t going by saying something to the effect of I was part of the family, which did surprise me and I think I had some sort of confused smiling look trying to validate how she felt...………..

In my mind, I’m thinking I’m part of the family yet here we are going through this divorce...………..

she said I will always be a part of the family and in the boy’s lives. I’m allowing myself to read her words differently. She’s not talking about her and me, us...…….

First, let me ask you if there was a discussion or agreement about not telling the family you are separated?

Okay, so about the "you will always be a part of the family". It's great to have that close relationship with in-laws. However, you are not their blood, and you will learn if there's a D, or if they support anyone.....it will be your W. They may not agree with her decisions or her actions (if they knew the truth), but they are blood, so they will stick by her.

Your W's statement is the equation of a mother kissing her little boy's boo-boo and telling him everything will be fine. My son's WW told him the exact same thing as your WW said to you! Guess what? It's not that way. Yes, they have children they share, but they are divorced and she is married to OM, so no...….my son is not part of her family any longer. She doesn't go inside his house, or share his holidays, or have dinner with the grandparents. That's over. They communicate through texts. She drops the kids off at the driveway and she's gone. I once loved her like she was my own daughter, but things change after a divorce.

Yes, you will be in your sons' lives, and you need to make sure you get as much time as she gets. Just don't be deceived by her pretty words and think she means that all of you will be one big happy family together. That's so painful for you to even imagine right now. It's cruel for her to even say things like that, b/c it is deceptive. She's trying to cushion things for the big let down that's coming.

These little performances where she acts all warm & fuzzy, doesn't mean anything good for you. She may continue doing this, until she is secured in the new house. When you stop playing the game with her, and start pulling way back and spending sufficient time away from the house while she's sitting home with the kids......her tune is going to change. And, it won't necessarily be for the better, at first. Remember, she wants to keep you attached, but she doesn't want to be your wife.

Now, you may be wondering how you'll know if she truly does have a change of heart. Three things have to match. Her words, actions, & attitude. If she's saying one thing and doing another...….she's not there. If her attitude doesn't match what she says & does, it's all fake. When she stops playing around behind your back, stops with all the secret texting, taking trips with all these "friends" and living like a single girl, instead of a married woman and mother of sons......that will be a start. When she's ready to be transparent and not feel she has to have privacy from her own H.....that will be a start. When she stops sleeping in a separate bedroom, and talking about wanting a D, and/or her "independence"...….that will be a start. That's all it is.....a start. The words and attitude have to match the actions. So, tuck all of that under you hat, b/c it may be a while before you see any of those actions.

Are you reading the threads on the mindset of the WW?

BTW, don't decide to make some big leap without first running it by the board...…….at least, while you are a newcomer and getting your feet planted on a solid ground. You want to make sure you know how to swim before you jump off into the deep end.

[Maximus]

Hi Adam,

A few pointers:

From personal and collateral experience in house separation rarely works. You really have to work on it and it is difficult feeling a loss of someone who you see day in day out even if they aren't talking to you. Another point is that with in house separation you are more exposed to manipulation and what I call the frog effect. Put a frog in a hot pan and it will jump immediately. Put it in a warm environment and gradually heat it up and it will stay in the pot even at the same temp where it jumped before. The reason and comparison is that we have a habit of adapting. We adapted when things went from honeymoon to transilvania and within house separation we will adjust to some of the craziest sh1t if we havent done our emotional homework.

I tend to believe that with IHS 4 things happen:

- The one with the weakest character will lose
- The WWS can adjust the behaviour pattern until they reach the bare minimum necessary to sucker the LBS
- The WWS can continue to be WW and test how good they are at covering up
- The LBS never really moves on, gets a life or focuses on themselves as they are always checking with the WWS through the corner of their eye.

I understand that a full separation is difficult for some so to overcome that you really need to hone your DB skills.

Finally, the inlaws are just that. No matter how much love there was as an in-law, their relationship with you is almost always parallel to your own relationship with your spouse.

Peace

Max

[lost8]

That’s scary Maximus cuz I’m in that sitch and it is true. Very easy to take the bait.