[Wanted1]

If nothing good comes from it, I can't do much about it but be comfortable knowing I tried.

This line of thinking doesnt make any sense to me. If you were in prison, you wouldnt smash your head against the wall 50 times and then walk away saying "well, I didnt think I was going to be able to tunnel my way out of jail by hitting my head against the wall, but at least I tried." To me, the process is about setting goals, it's about consistent change, it's about learning new skills and implementing them, it's about finding out what is important to you, and so on. In my opinions, a hail mary is basically that. But right now, you're in the middle of the first quarter. I feel like you cant see it at this point, because youre too emotionally invested. But you are just starting to recognize your patterns and the issues in your marriage. Youve been here for what, a month?

This meeting may help. My guess and experience suggests to me that she will tune him out if he is suggesting anything other than "you deserve to be happy. Find what makes you happy." But, Ive been surprised before.

I hope that before and after the meeting you are still working on the things I listed above!

What I meant by saying that is, sort of explained in my last sentence after it. I would regret not doing this meeting down the road. I would always wonder "what if." If I would have pushed for the meeting, would that have maybe been the turning point? I don't mean it in a totalitarian sense of my entire situation. I think that's maybe how you took it?

If nothing good comes from it, it isn't like I'm going to file for D immediately afterwards. I know it is going to take time and space. A lot of time. I feel like it needs to take a lot of time because if anything is rushed, the chances of more problems coming up down the road are probably greater. I'm not expecting for this to be an "aha moment" where she suddenly, during the meeting, as an intense desire to be with me again. While that would be nice, that is completely unrealistic. A positive outcome from it would be any type of small step back in my direction.

[Wanted1]

I hear you about managing expectations. I’m definitely trying to. I’m hopeful, but also realize that there is a pretty good chance she’s too far gone for anything to change her mind and feelings. I really don’t understand how or why and probably will never know or understand.

I guess here's an opportunity to be optimistic. Right now, she IS too far gone for anything to change her mind and feelings. But, what might change her mind and feelings, if anything, is time and space. Time enough to let the bad feelings wear off, time enough to realize that the good feelings weren't as permanent as she thought they would be. Space to allow the time to do its work.

There's no silver bullet.

Totally agree. I'm being pleasant around her. Asking how her day went at the new job, etc. General small talk. I will not engage in any R talk at all. That is my #1 priority/main goal right now. If she wants to engage, I'll listen and validate, but I am absolutely done sharing my thoughts and feelings with her. 1) because I've already done that too much and 2) anything I say right now is twisted into some sort of a negative anyway.

I know some on here advise that I shouldn't be chit chatting with her about routine stuff, but I tried not engaging in any talk with her for a couple days this past weekend and afterwards, during our last conversation about our situation, she told me that I was once again "shutting down." That is one of the things that she claims to be an issue with me in the past. That I would give her the "silent treatment" and she would be constantly wondering what she did wrong. Seems ironic though when I think about it. She wants time and space from me but then when I truly give her time and space she accuses me of shutting down like I've always done. Apparently its a very thin line. I'm going to try to remain friendly and engage in general conversation with her and remove any and all possibilities of anything moving into a R talk and see where that gets me.

[burned]

Hey man. Hope you’re doing OK. How did that meeting go?

I missed this last post somehow.

she told me that I was once again "shutting down." That is one of the things that she claims to be an issue with me in the past. That I would give her the "silent treatment" and she would be constantly wondering what she did wrong. Seems ironic though when I think about it. She wants time and space from me but then when I truly give her time and space she accuses me of shutting down like I've always done. Apparently its a very thin line.

Its not a thin line, but it is a scary line. Steve85 comments on this occasionally and it’s a tough one to get past. But basically, the rules have changed. Not pursuing is different from not listening/caring. Back then they wanted you all up in their face. Now they want the opposite. If you’re anything like me, back then you wanted your space, and now you want to be all up in there. See? BD changes everything. Human emotions are super weird.

And anyway, believe nothing they say. She’ll see you dropping the pursuit, she feels a loss of control, she goes right for the easiest thing: complain about the pattern she sees of Wanted1 “shutting down.” But don’t take it too seriously. It’s an attempt at regaining control, or justifying her actions, or whatever. Water off a duck.

[SteveLW]

burned is right on the money here.

True loving detachment is not "shutting down". Active listening. Validating. It just means you aren't starting conversations and interactions. Because she has asked for time and space. However, when she does initiate you listen, and validate.

burned was also right about her picking the easiest thing to complain about. "You're shutting down." If you pursued she accuse you of smothering her and not giving her the time and space she asked for. LBS can hardly ever do anything right in the WAS' eyes post bomb day. It is just the way it is. Just keep GAL. Keep 180ing. Keep detaching.

Also, please heed these words by burned: "And anyway, believe nothing they say." "Water off a duck." Her words are useless. They are based on emotions. And her emotions change from one minute to the next. My WW used to say all the time "when I say something it is how I feel at that moment. But that can be different 5 minutes later." Why? Because she knew what she was saying was illogical, didn't make sense, and was contradictory to other things she had said. This is why you can't believe a word. Not a single word.

[burned]

I learned from the best! Just passing it on.

Also, something I realized from dealing with my W: believe nothing they say when they say that they’re NOT emotional and that they’re being perfectly rational. Nope! Just a smoke screen. Do they believe it? Maybe. Doesn’t make them right.

[Wanted1]

Steve and burned,

For some reason this is exactly what I needed today. A perfect reassurance for me. I appreciate it a lot.

Burned, meeting is on Friday, so I'm looking forward to that.

You guys are right, nothing I do is ever right. It is so true, thus far, it's almost hilarious. "You are smothering me with your thoughts and feelings, I need time and space." Then 3 days later, "You've shut down like you always do. I'm over here worrying what I did wrong now to upset you." When in reality, I just haven't been initiating any conversations with her. The reason it feels like I've shut down is because I'm the one that has been initiating EVERY conversation between the two of us since BD!

All of this fits her mindset and current strategy, which is, pick and choose the pieces (e.g. what I say or what I do) that bests fits the puzzle she's trying to put together. If it fits what she she's trying to accomplish or is something she can twist and use as an excuse or to justify her current feelings, then man does she run with it and it's 100% gospel! If not, well, it isn't even given a second thought.

She's been reading all of these self-help books and I want to ask her where in those books does it explain that it really helps focus on all of the negatives about a situation! Because what I've been reading has been instructing me and providing me with tools and techniques to do the exact opposite! (Don't worry, I'm not bringing this up to her!)

I really, really, really would like to know what I did that makes her resent me so much and basically gives her the unwavering belief that it's unforgivable in her eyes! I know I'll never get that answer but I am very confused and really curious how she thinks she can justify it. NOTHING I've done in this M is bad enough to justify a D. What she has certainly does, but the only thing she can accuse me of is probably not being the best at communicating and probably "shut down" when my NGS covert contracts aren't met. FFS, that happens in almost every M! And it's something that can be fixed. AND it takes 2 to communicate effectively. She isn't the greatest communicator either.

Me new mantra is "water off a duck's back." Thank you for this!

If I don't talk to anyone in the meantime, I hope everyone has a Happy Thanksgiving.

I'll update my thread after the meeting on Friday. If you have time, say a prayer for me -- I need a miracle I'm afraid and there is only one person that can grant them!

[Wanted1]

I learned from the best! Just passing it on.

Also, something I realized from dealing with my W: believe nothing they say when they say that they’re NOT emotional and that they’re being perfectly rational. Nope! Just a smoke screen. Do they believe it? Maybe. Doesn’t make them right.

Dude, there is ZERO logic and rationale going on with my W right now. None, Notta, Zippo. It's actually frightening!

[neffer]

We are wishing the best for you man. Sure we are. But remember things you need to do, always do, you have to love yourself, value yourself.

Then she needs a miracle too cause it’s going to be her loss. Right?

Hoping for the best W1!

[RyanHun]

Also, please heed these words by burned: "And anyway, believe nothing they say." "Water off a duck." Her words are useless. They are based on emotions. And her emotions change from one minute to the next. My WW used to say all the time "when I say something it is how I feel at that moment. But that can be different 5 minutes later." Why? Because she knew what she was saying was illogical, didn't make sense, and was contradictory to other things she had said

This one baffled me for a long time before finding this sight. It still is crazy to me how contradictory a 5 minute conversation with W could be. Nothing that has ever been said about the sitch from W has ever made any sense, the convo would usually start with a complaint of some sort or a request on what she needed but two minutes later was completely opposite. Now that I am really working on not believing any of it I feel more at peace with my role in the M.

[burned]

I really, really, really would like to know what I did that makes her resent me so much and basically gives her the unwavering belief that it's unforgivable in her eyes! I know I'll never get that answer but I am very confused and really curious how she thinks she can justify it. NOTHING I've done in this M is bad enough to justify a D. What she has certainly does, but the only thing she can accuse me of is probably not being the best at communicating and probably "shut down" when my NGS covert contracts aren't met. FFS, that happens in almost every M! And it's something that can be fixed. AND it takes 2 to communicate effectively. She isn't the greatest communicator either.

We all wish we knew the answer to that. The simplest answer, to me, is that we've all done plenty of little things wrong, but the WW did something WORSE and KNOWS it and doesn't feel strong enough to admit it, so she shifts the blame. And what better way to shift the blame than to pick one of the many things that USED to bother her but she overlooked it because she was in love with YOU and not HIM. Something like that.

As for the second part, I'm right there with you. But this kind of logic doesn't apply right now. During piecing, definitely. But that's after R. Right now it can't be fixed, except by us, alone. Later, maybe there's an opportunity to work on communication. But that won't be until she feels that attraction and wants to get cozy with your privates. Until OM gets hit by a bus, it isn't too likely. Any bus drivers around? I can give you the address.