I really, really, really would like to know what I did that makes her resent me so much and basically gives her the unwavering belief that it's unforgivable in her eyes! I know I'll never get that answer but I am very confused and really curious how she thinks she can justify it. NOTHING I've done in this M is bad enough to justify a D. What she has certainly does, but the only thing she can accuse me of is probably not being the best at communicating and probably "shut down" when my NGS covert contracts aren't met. FFS, that happens in almost every M! And it's something that can be fixed. AND it takes 2 to communicate effectively. She isn't the greatest communicator either.
We all wish we knew the answer to that. The simplest answer, to me, is that we've all done plenty of little things wrong, but the WW did something WORSE and KNOWS it and doesn't feel strong enough to admit it, so she shifts the blame. And what better way to shift the blame than to pick one of the many things that USED to bother her but she overlooked it because she was in love with YOU and not HIM. Something like that.
I think guilt must be so terrible for the WW. How toxic to know logically you've done something unforgivable, but emotionally "needed". I don't know how it works, and I can't pretend to know. It doesn't excuse the behavior, but for me it helps with a bit of explanation. Guilt is just poison in their bodies they can't get rid of at this point in time, and it makes them say and do terrible things.
Well, I'm coming here to vent so I don't do something irrational, but first a slight update:
Meeting with Bishop didn't really accomplish much. He has always been W's spiritual advisor and has basically been family of hers for a long, long time. He spoke about her past and how fragile her state of mind is right now because of opening up all of those wounds. Told us both that she needs time to heal herself and that she might not have it in her to be a W right now. It's going to take all of her energy to be a mother and focus on getting herself right. I'm not sure what sort of a synopsis she gave him prior to the meeting but he told me what she wrote about was vastly different than what I did. He suggested we share what each of us wrote to him with each other so we know where the other is coming from. We haven't yet and TBH, I'm not interested in seeing what she wrote. Maybe IF she would ever make the decision to try to R I would be interested but at this point I'm not, at all.
Something she said in the meeting though has really bothered me. She made mention of "fearing" what I would do to her, the kids and the house and used a conversation we had a couple weeks ago as justification for those fears. During that conversation, she was frustrating me to no end with the constant focus on negatives and twisting my words to fit her narrative. I was irritated as hell and grabbed a couple tiny rubber disks that were on the counter about the size of a silver dollar and threw them down the hallway, which was in the exact opposite direction of her. I'll repeat, they were thrown in the complete opposite direction of where she was standing. I've never once threatened physical harm to her or anything remotely close. I'm not a violent person at all. The thought of laying a hand on her has never, ever, crossed my mind in everything we've been through and that is the honest to God truth. This mindset tells me one of two things: 1) She is using it as a manipulation tactic to further justify her reasons for wanting to leave or 2) if she truly does fear harm from me, that speaks volumes to just how broken and fragile she is right now. Like I said, she has NO reason to fear any type of physical harm from me. I've never given her even the slightest idea that I would do anything like that, ever.
My only response when she said this during her meeting was, "You seriously think I would harm the kids?!?" To which she replied, "Oh did I say the kids? No, I don't think you would hurt the kids." I then just let it pass and didn't say anything more but since she said that, I can't help but think WTF is going on right now!
Fast forward to this past weekend. We got home from Thanksgiving at her parents on Saturday. We drove separate so I was home before her and the kids. Once they were home and we got the kids to bed, I left to go GAL. There was a community get together down town. On Sunday morning, I added to the shared calendar 'Wanted1 gone' for next weekend. Afterwards, she came into the MBR where I was and asked to talk to me. She said that I can shut her out and she understands it but she would appreciate it, since we are parents together, to let her know when I'm leaving. She then claimed that S3 was up crying and wandering around upstairs while I was gone. She sleeps in the basement. She said if she would have known I was gone, she would have slept on the couch upstairs. Some of this is sort of BS because she would have gotten a notification on her phone from the security camera app showing me leaving. She then went on to say, "Are you just living the single life now or what?" All I really responded was, "No, didn't think so. I just went down to the [community event]."
So, my GAL activity that is planned for this coming weekend is out of town. I found out that there is a Retrouvaille program in the same city for this weekend. I decided that I was going to ask one last time and see if she would be interested in attending. I texted her that I was sure I knew the answer but thought I'd ask anyway since my family is my #1 priority and I would gladly miss GAL activity if she were interested. She responded a couple hours later with "Let me think about it." In the past, she has been pretty vocal about her "hesitations" with Retrouvaille. I've suggested it probably 3-4 times in the past 2 months as something I would like to try. I'm not getting my hopes up with her response as I'm sure she will not be in favor of attending but the fact that she just didn't shut it down right off the bat is interesting.
So here is where i need to vent a little bit -- This morning I did some recon and found out that W and OM from earlier this year, who was my best friend, are now texting again. It looks like he reached out to her first yesterday. There were texts back and forth a couple times throughout the day but also quite a few back and forth this morning starting VERY early. 4:30 A.M. I'm not sure what I should do with this info. Part of me wants to burn everything to the freaking ground right now. Out the contact to OM W, tell both OM and W that I know they are talking again and tell her to file for the freaking D already and get the hell out of the house.
In the past, I would be confronting her about it as we speak. But, I'm feeling now like I should just sit on this. Monitor it a little more and see just how intense it gets, etc. I'm still waiting for the answer to Retrouvaille. I wondering if when she tells me she's still not comfortable in going if I should just response with something like, "Ok, that's fine. I'm having second thoughts on wanting to do it at this juncture anyway, so that's probably for the best," and let her stew about why I would say that? Do I let her know that I know they are communicating again? I feel like I want her to know that I know so that she knows I'm not as big of an idiot as she thinks I am. She will claim it is "nothing but random conversation," I'm almost positive of that and then accuse me of snooping and invading her privacy and freak out over that. What she doesn't realize is how damn inappropriate and disrespectful it is to simply be in contact with OM. I feel like I'm dealing with a 7 year old who doesn't understand normal adult concepts. My IC told me at the last session that sometimes sex abuse victims have their emotional behaviors and growth stunted right at the time of the abuse. I'm seriously beginning to wonder if that is what is wrong here! Because her reasonings and excuses and feelings seem so immature and childish.
M: 34 W:34 D:7 D:6 S:3
M: 9.5 years T: 12
OM found & BD (by me): 9/19/18 IHS begins W informs me she's moving out: 11/28/18 W files: 12/21/18 D Final: 2/25/19
You do not want to go to Retrouvaille with her RIGHT NOW! It would be a complete waste of time and money. It is for people who are actively working on their marriage. You are not because she has checked out!
You busted her again with with another OM who happens to be your friend. WTF?
Why, why, why do you feel you deserve to be treated this way?
Your W completely understands what she is doing and she doesn't care because she doesn't respect you and she doesn't respect you mainly because you don't respect yourself.
Sandi has stated it a million times on this board that a woman can not love a man she doesn't respect.
How can you get your respect back? Let her go, walk away and never look back until she comes to you and EARNS another chance with you.
You do not want to go to Retrouvaille with her RIGHT NOW! It would be a complete waste of time and money. It is for people who are actively working on their marriage. You are not because she has checked out!
You busted her again with with another OM who happens to be your friend. WTF?
Why, why, why do you feel you deserve to be treated this way?
Your W completely understands what she is doing and she doesn't care because she doesn't respect you and she doesn't respect you mainly because you don't respect yourself.
Sandi has stated it a million times on this board that a woman can not love a man she doesn't respect.
How can you get your respect back? Let her go, walk away and never look back until she comes to you and EARNS another chance with you.
Let me explain something, the suggestion of Retrouvaille happened before finding out about this most recent stuff. I'm honestly at a point where I'm ready to let her go and walk away. I want to know HOW? Tell her tonight that I know she's talking to former best friend and that I'm done and she needs to move out? She's been contemplating moving out for a couple weeks now so it isn't like I'm kicking her out.
M: 34 W:34 D:7 D:6 S:3
M: 9.5 years T: 12
OM found & BD (by me): 9/19/18 IHS begins W informs me she's moving out: 11/28/18 W files: 12/21/18 D Final: 2/25/19
So I am struggling here. Where in the above post, other than attending the GAL community event, is there any DBing going on?
Let's recap:
1) You admit to losing your cool and throwing something down the hall. 2) You then ask her to attend Retrouvaille 3) You then snoop and find out her and OM are still in contact 4) You are still planning on attending Retrouvaille if she agrees DESPITE wanting to burn everything to the ground over the texting 5) You then find it inappropriate and disrespectful for her to be in contact with OM despite the fact that you are supposed to be giving her time and space, concentrating on you (GAL, 180s, and DETACHMENT (capitalized because you are failing royally in that department).
On top of it, overall this post is full of a microscope pointed squarely at her.
So let's discuss all of this:
First, losing your cool and throwing something down the hall. BAD BAD BAD. Read many other poster's sitches and you will see that WAWs, and especially WWs, will use any excuse to cast you in a bad light related to their "fear" of what you you will do. Read OrangeK's sitch. He has been under a TRO for a longtime because he lost his cool and punched his STBXW's car. One of the things we try to impress on newbies is to never ever give your WAW any inkling of a loss of control related to anger and temper. Many a LBH has been slapped with a restraining order and escorted in handcuffs out of his own house. Don't be that guy. I highly suggest you start looking into temper control mechanisms. As a former temper-tantrum guy myself I would be willing to bet that this disc throwing incident isn't your first temper loss of control incident. So 180 on that PRONTO.
2) Retrouvaille. WHY? WHY would you ask again? Just go on your GAL trip. The Bishop gave you some very insightful info: "Told us both that she needs time to heal herself and that she might not have it in her to be a W right now." You dismiss it, essentially, as him being on her side. WRONG. This guy is telling you what you won't listen from your W. Time and space means TIME AND SPACE. It doesn't mean "hey, let's go to a marriage seminar!". Revoke that invite and go on your GAL. More than likely her "i'll think about it" was more about you not going away for the weekend and leaving her alone with the kids. She already expressed disapproval of being home alone with the kids (with the whole community event thing).
3) Snooping. Step back from your sitch and ask yourself. Is snooping and then "monitoring what you found" really giving her time and space? Come on Wanted, you know this was wrong. Not because you invaded he privacy or any of that, but because it is BAD FOR YOU! Snooping never improves your sitch, and can only causes you to have feelings of "wanting to burn everything to the ground". Step back from this and breathe....... You obviously expected to find something otherwise you wouldn't have snooped. Trust me, on this, I was a serial snooper! Read my sitch. Snooping and finding something will always set you back. All you did was stoke your jealousy (lack of detachment) and my guess is, as with most of us, you are upset with OM. Even though he isn't your problem......your W is. And you are already supposed to be giving her time and space. Wanted, you took the MBR because of her behavior. That was your boundary. Leave her to deal with her own demons for now. If and when she decides to R, and you are still open to it, then you can deal with her contact with OM or anyone else.
4) This is contradictory. See #2 above. In fact, why would you even consider Retrouvaille when she is actively stepping outside of the MR?
5) Here is the crux of the problem. Your feelings. I feel it is inappropriate. I feel it is disrespectful. Why? She has already fired you as her H. For all intents and purposes you are no longer MR. She is sleeping in the basement as a roommate. What exactly is she disrespecting and being inappropriate about. She hasn't misled you. She isn't saying she wants to R yet still talking to OM. You are reacting here instead of responding. You are feeling instead of thinking. You are not DBing!!!!!
Wanted, you fell off of the DB horse. Get back up on it. Let her go to get her back. GAL. 180. And work on detachment!!! You have way to tight a grip on that rope.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
You do not want to go to Retrouvaille with her RIGHT NOW! It would be a complete waste of time and money. It is for people who are actively working on their marriage. You are not because she has checked out!
You busted her again with with another OM who happens to be your friend. WTF?
Why, why, why do you feel you deserve to be treated this way?
Your W completely understands what she is doing and she doesn't care because she doesn't respect you and she doesn't respect you mainly because you don't respect yourself.
Sandi has stated it a million times on this board that a woman can not love a man she doesn't respect.
How can you get your respect back? Let her go, walk away and never look back until she comes to you and EARNS another chance with you.
Let me explain something, the suggestion of Retrouvaille happened before finding out about this most recent stuff. I'm honestly at a point where I'm ready to let her go and walk away. I want to know HOW? Tell her tonight that I know she's talking to former best friend and that I'm done and she needs to move out? She's been contemplating moving out for a couple weeks now so it isn't like I'm kicking her out.
NO NO NO!!!
Just let it go. Let her live in the basement. Let her figure her stuff out. You are looking for a magic bullet. There isn't one. You can control only yourself. Just leave her to her own devices, and concentrate on YOU and the kids.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
We all know it´s hard W1. But you need to do that 180... To get her respect back you need to let her go. No waiting for her, no expectations.
Originally Posted by LH19
How can you get your respect back? Let her go, walk away and never look back until she comes to you and EARNS another chance with you.
You must do what LH says. Put your pants and stand for yourself. You can do that man. Be the role model for your kids, show them how to confront adversity. They will thank you in the future.
Respect man. Be proud of who you are. Go.
WW H(me): 53 W: 48 T: 27 M: 22 S: 18 Piecing since 03/2016 Saw the light in the storm
