what the heck is happening, is this DB?

[AnotherStander]

I am still young enough that I could find a new W get M and have another child or 2. However, I am extremely satisfied and blessed with the three children I have now and I don't really want anymore at this point.

Nothing against people that start new families, but personally I am of the exact same mind on this as you. My kids mean the world to me, and starting a new family seems like it would be watering down their importance to me. I want to devote whatever time I can afford to them, and if I started a new family I know my kids would get a lot less attention than they do now. I just don't want that, they are my priority and I want them to always be my priority.

Maybe I am being too practical in my thought process. Even back in HS I never believed in soul mates or the "one." I know W did then and maybe she still does. I have always believed that its all about choices.

Absolutely agree. Love is a verb, not a noun. It's something you do, not something that just happens. Work is required. If someone (WAS) quits putting in the work it's because they chose to, not because it just happened to them.

I got logged out and then my password didn’t work. Should I be concerned? Has that happened to anyone else?

Happens to me every once in a while. It unexpectedly logs me out and since I log in so infrequently (because it normally stays logged in) I usually punch in the wrong PW a few times before getting back in. One time I was using the right PW and it wasn't working, I finally gave up and tried again the next day and it logged in just fine.

[Phoenix9]

Month 4 for me. That's still considered "nothing", even though a lot of changes have been made and sticking.

What is considered a "good" DBing time? If such a thing exists?

It's a great question because most people come here with unrealistic expectations about how long it takes to save a M. I've been around here a little bit and I've seen many sitches play out. And knocking on the door of 60, I've seen many play out IRL as well. Here is the pattern I've seen time and time again:

1. BD
2. LBS is sad and desperate and needy and doing anything to get WAS back, frantic that everything they are doing is "wrong" and desperate to know what are the "right" things to do to make things normal again
3. LBS works on themselves following a bunch of "steps" all with the thought of bringing the WAS back
4. WAS is still not interested, so LBS declares they are over WAS and moving on and will be fine with or without the WAS, while both feet are still planted firmly in 2 and 3
5. LBS realizes this really isn't going to "go back to normal" or be cured overnight
6. LBS starts rebuilding their life and REALLY letting the WAS go
7. LBS starts coming out of the fog and realizes the folly of 2-4 above
8. LBS drops the rope, embraces GAL, starts to find happiness again
9. WAS discovers that the life of freedom and fun they thought they were achieving is not there, begins working on themselves and wrestling with their internal demons
10. WAS starts to miss the LBS

I bet if I asked any of you, even the newer people, to name who here is in steps 2 and 3 and who is in 8 you'd be able to tell me with 95% accuracy for anyone except yourself. Just about all of you that have been here less than a year are in 2 and 3. Most of you are trying hard to convince yourselves you are in 6-8, but you are not even close. And let me tell you, you CANNOT make any wise decisions about ANYTHING when you are in 2-3. This is why we constantly counsel LBS's to WAIT before making any decisions regarding S or D. You are not in the right frame of mind, and worse, you DON'T KNOW you're not in the right frame of mind.

PATIENCE, PATIENCE, PATIENCE.

Now that I've said that, not all sitches make it to these steps but many (maybe even most) do:

11. WAS wants to reconcile
12A. LBS has moved on to the point that they no longer want to reconcile with the WAS. Reasons usually include "I never want to go through that again" and/ or "once I came out of the fog I realized he/she wasn't that great of a person after all."
12B. LBS decides to give recon a try
13. Recon

Of course every LBS wants to know how long it takes to get to 11. The answer is: a lot longer than most have patience for. I've seen it happen in less than a year maybe twice. I've seen more in the 1-2 year range. I've seen most in the 2+ year range. I know no one wants to hear that, but I think if you know the reality of this you'll realize just how long the road is ahead of you. If you have to run a marathon I am not doing you a service by telling you it's only a mile long, then when you get to the mile marker tell you "oops it's a little longer" and such. You need to know how long a journey it really is.

Wow. You totally nailed this timeline AS. And for the longest time I was in steps 2-4. It was after I saw the weight of the A was when my anger fueled my determination to truly work on myself. I truly feel that I am in steps 5-7. Step 8 is what I'm working towards now.

And to be honest, I am starting to get more comfortable and starting to enjoy steps 5-8. It stinks that it took me finding explicit emails to get to that step.

[Cadet]

Month 4 for me. That's still considered "nothing", even though a lot of changes have been made and sticking.

What is considered a "good" DBing time? If such a thing exists?

It's a great question because most people come here with unrealistic expectations about how long it takes to save a M. I've been around here a little bit and I've seen many sitches play out. And knocking on the door of 60, I've seen many play out IRL as well. Here is the pattern I've seen time and time again:

1. BD
2. LBS is sad and desperate and needy and doing anything to get WAS back, frantic that everything they are doing is "wrong" and desperate to know what are the "right" things to do to make things normal again
3. LBS works on themselves following a bunch of "steps" all with the thought of bringing the WAS back
4. WAS is still not interested, so LBS declares they are over WAS and moving on and will be fine with or without the WAS, while both feet are still planted firmly in 2 and 3
5. LBS realizes this really isn't going to "go back to normal" or be cured overnight
6. LBS starts rebuilding their life and REALLY letting the WAS go
7. LBS starts coming out of the fog and realizes the folly of 2-4 above
8. LBS drops the rope, embraces GAL, starts to find happiness again
9. WAS discovers that the life of freedom and fun they thought they were achieving is not there, begins working on themselves and wrestling with their internal demons
10. WAS starts to miss the LBS

I bet if I asked any of you, even the newer people, to name who here is in steps 2 and 3 and who is in 8 you'd be able to tell me with 95% accuracy for anyone except yourself. Just about all of you that have been here less than a year are in 2 and 3. Most of you are trying hard to convince yourselves you are in 6-8, but you are not even close. And let me tell you, you CANNOT make any wise decisions about ANYTHING when you are in 2-3. This is why we constantly counsel LBS's to WAIT before making any decisions regarding S or D. You are not in the right frame of mind, and worse, you DON'T KNOW you're not in the right frame of mind.

PATIENCE, PATIENCE, PATIENCE.

Now that I've said that, not all sitches make it to these steps but many (maybe even most) do:

11. WAS wants to reconcile
12A. LBS has moved on to the point that they no longer want to reconcile with the WAS. Reasons usually include "I never want to go through that again" and/ or "once I came out of the fog I realized he/she wasn't that great of a person after all."
12B. LBS decides to give recon a try
13. Recon

Of course every LBS wants to know how long it takes to get to 11. The answer is: a lot longer than most have patience for. I've seen it happen in less than a year maybe twice. I've seen more in the 1-2 year range. I've seen most in the 2+ year range. I know no one wants to hear that, but I think if you know the reality of this you'll realize just how long the road is ahead of you. If you have to run a marathon I am not doing you a service by telling you it's only a mile long, then when you get to the mile marker tell you "oops it's a little longer" and such. You need to know how long a journey it really is.

So to put it more in perspective about HOW LONG, I have been here for 10 YEARS, and WAS/MLC'er has never made any real attempt to come back.
As far as I can tell has done no work on herself and is not in any relationships.

Also I will throw in my mother who now rests in peace, she divorced my father after a 40 year marriage, he was faithful and loyal and never would have left her.
That was 27 years ago.
She also never worked on her self or made any attempt to come back.

Their are no guarantees in any of this other than you can work on yourself and pick and choose what you want your life to look like.

DB'ing is forever!!

[lost8]

All true and wow that list has sparked a lot of thoughts in many here.

Burned,

Hang in there, I think I was able to get through 2-4 after a few months because I fought to get out of my own fog. How can someone allow someone they say they love go through so much hurt? It really made me look hard at myself and realize that this is not a person that has the same values and outlook on life that I do and why would I ever want to reconcile with this person after already giving WW 18-19 years of my life.

I will admit I don't ever see myself marrying again but I have met a few ladies and just the interaction with them has given me so much hope and confidence to believe that there are good people out there. They do exist and you can't go meet them just to get you to the next step. When you are ready you will know. I actually look forward to seeing my new friends and have been encouraging my WW to continue with her independence. Funny thing is now she doesn't want to!!

[burned]

I’m glad all this came up. Im also really glad to see all this activity today. It’s nice to have “friends” around the holidays. Makes it a little less lonely.

My parents are on the same page as you. They say W just doesn’t have the same character, the same strength. What’s crazy, though, and I’m only realizing it now, is that W got into my head (I let her) and convinced me over the years that if I didn’t agree with her then I was wrong or stubborn or mean. Holier-than-thou, martyr, etc. So either we were BOTH like that, or it was only her but she managed to shift the blame to me so that she would feel less bad about herself. No idea, but the net result is that I’m having a lot of trouble getting it through my head that she is as much to blame as I am. If nothing else, getting to DB sooner would have protected me from some of the damage to my self-esteem that came from taking what she said after BD far too seriously.

And I know that’s one of the goals of GAL. For me to have experiences that teach me that maybe I’m not nearly as terrible as W made me feel I am after BD.

[lost8]

That's why GAL is so important. It will help you with your self esteem. I started just getting out of the house, that was great and kept me busy but when I started meeting new people and talking to old friends it took me back to the person I truly was and that I had gotten away from after 2 decades of marriage. I have exciting plans for the Spring and something to look forward to...all things that I would not have been doing if there was no BD,

I endured that beat down by my WW as well and it dumps you into a fog that you are all screwed up. Not true though, we all need some changes in our life, none of us are perfect. But we made this commitment with our Ws and they no longer want to honor that. I can stay mad, sad and miserable or I can move on and live a good life.

[burned]

Yup and I need to remind myself that my faults don’t justify her actions. If you don’t like how we relate, let’s talk about it, not act like everything is fine and build up resentment. If you want to leave me, leave, don’t cheat on me first, lie about it, and then act like we have a chance at fixing it. Ugh.

So the blame for that is on her. I can respect her for trying to get what she feels she needs. But I don’t respect the WAY she did it.

Another topic, Joseph9 on petri’s thread has a good way of phrasing something: “showing to her that I am not an angry jerk that is trying purposely to make her life difficult for what she did to me.” That’s what I worry my W thinks of me these days. I know it doesn’t matter and I don’t control her feelings, but, that’s maybe where the fear comes from.

[neffer]

GAL to get to PMA

[lost8]

That’s what I worry my W thinks of me these days. I know it doesn’t matter and I don’t control her feelings, but, that’s maybe where the fear comes from.[/quote]

I don't care what my wife thinks of me these days. I know that I am a good person and am still working to be better, by living a happier life, taking care of my kids so they are happy etc. Get out of her head, it is messed up and will keep you from progressing to the next step.

[lost8]

i suck at quoting btw...whats the trick?