FS is this a security camera that he has? If he isn't in the home why does he have access still?
Also I wouldn't lie about the anti-smoking class. Just don't tell him about it, he doesn't want to be in the MR then its none of his business.
The camera line is part of a package that he pays for. I cannot disable it fully without having to change our utility bill. He will not change the utility bill. I have tried to get him to cancel and put in my name but he won't. I think he called me "ridiculous". I don't worry about it too much. I turn it off when I want to. He turns it back on. Neither of us mentions it though (he did last time but thought it was because his subscription ran out).
I wouldn't normally bother telling him what I am doing but the course was on a day that I was supposed to have the girls so had to make something up.
I had lunch with a girlfriend today. We chatted a little about her impending D. Her sitch is so different. They are still in the same house, and they are friendly (even banterish) but the D is really adversarial. Neither can wait for it to be over. He has no interest in spending time with the children or of providing for them properly once the D is finalised. We started having problems at the same time, and it is strange how hers progressed so quickly (and he is still at home) whilst mine has been in limbo forever (and he MO in march). There is no sign of a divorce on the horizon and my H wants to be with us more than he doesn't.
For those that are wondering, he was back again this evening. He picked the girls up from school, brought them back here (I told him I would be home), and then we all had dinner together. He has taken D9 to her tutor and then will bring her back after.
I keep thinking back to how those that respond to my thread say I am on the right track and the signs, no matter how minute, indicate that his feelings towards me are changing ever so slowly. But it does not feel like that. It feels like with each stunted interaction, each truth not fully given, I am pushing him further and further away. By showing him that I am living my life 'without a care in the world' that I am somehow saying the line has been crossed, the rope has been dropped, and I do not want you back.
How does a proud man come back if he thinks you do not want him back?
I keep thinking back to how those that respond to my thread say I am on the right track and the signs, no matter how minute, indicate that his feelings towards me are changing ever so slowly. But it does not feel like that. It feels like with each stunted interaction, each truth not fully given, I am pushing him further and further away. By showing him that I am living my life 'without a care in the world' that I am somehow saying the line has been crossed, the rope has been dropped, and I do not want you back.
How does a proud man come back if he thinks you do not want him back?
FS, I frequently struggle with this. My W is stubborn and proud, too. It was great when it worked in my favor. I worry that she is far too proud to ever allow herself to look back and say, "Maybe I could have done better there, maybe I should go back and try again." It's an ugly thought that forces me to remind myself that I have no control over her. AND, as is quite clear from what I post here, I'm not even CLOSE to sending out that kind of message. If she showed up at my door tonight I'd hug her. The woman who betrayed me, lied to me, and then kicked me to the curb. If it's that obvious to the LBS, how much more obvious is it to the WAS that the LBS is not detached? But yes, I think I and a lot of others here understand that fear.
The advice here is that your H SHOULD be 100% convinced that you don't want him back, the same way the LBS already feels 100% convinced that the WAS doesn't want us. This is supposedly what results in a renewed attraction. It's difficult to argue against it because there are plenty of stories about how that's exactly what it took to change the sitch. But the statistician in me cringes at the idea that we can use anecdotal evidence in the absence of any base rate data to make those kinds of judgments. In this case faith is probably more useful than logic.
The important question is: when or how will you be sure that he is 100% sure that you don't want him back?
H: 35 W: 33 M: 11 T: 13
4/10/18: I discovered A and confronted ("BD1") 6/23/18: I moved out 8/31/18: MC ends ("BD2")
How does a proud man come back if he thinks you do not want him back?
Another thought, for the sake of discussion or maybe just "thinking out loud." To the extent that we humans create an understanding of reality through language, maybe we need to change that phrasing. I don't think we're trying to be so detached that the WAS will "come back." I think we are trying to be so detached that the WAS will WANT us. The stories I read seem to involve a year or two of time and space to let the negative emotions wear off, to let the WAS realize that the other options have their own issues. And then to choose us as their new partner. Sort of like if they went to a speed-dating thing after 2 years and you happened to be one of the participants, and they happened to find you attractive and want to get your number.
H: 35 W: 33 M: 11 T: 13
4/10/18: I discovered A and confronted ("BD1") 6/23/18: I moved out 8/31/18: MC ends ("BD2")
He decided to tell me tonight that he is taking the girls away in February next year. I replied “cool, I am going away in feb for a week so that works out”. He then has the gall to say to me “You’re using up your holiday to go away without the girls”. This from the man who has just gone away for a week to [censored] Dubai (with last minute detour to Malaysia) and who thought it would be acceptable to book a trip to Japan a month after MO. AS - you are right. He does hold me to a higher standard.
I reminded him I can go away without the children, same as him. He didn’t say anything. He also did not ask me where I was planning on going (skiing) or with whom (on my own as part of a yoga retreat).
You are an extraordinarily articulate and strong woman and therefore I know that you know the answer to your question. If he wants to be back in the marriage he'll walk over hot coals and wouldn't let a thing like pride get in his way. Don't make excuses for his lack of commitment (at the moment) and think of lowering your expectations. If he's so dumb that he would put pride before his love for you, then why would you settle for that person. Shouldn't love be selfless at times, not selfish?
I don't know if I can explain it properly but it seems to me (obviously an ignorant outsider) that you are still being 'proactive' in trying to detach. You are still thinking too much about him and what he's doing and thinking. I suspect that detachment only comes when you stop trying to be active to the relationship. The only action should be your lack of action. Not because you don't care, or your being callous or cold, but because you have so much else going on that it's the last thing you want to use your energy on. Let the situation play itself out. Don't try to manipulate it or force it and find that inner peace that is not dependent on him.
For most of us on here, the odds are stacked against repairing the relationship. If you decide a change of tactic and revert to showing him how much you want and need him back, if the relationship doesn't work out I would put money on your mental health and self esteem being in a far worse state than if you continue to DB. We want to be strong if the worst happens, not a gibbering wreck.
If and when he gets a thumping whack across the head and comes to his senses, he can demonstrate a bit of good old fashioned courtship and pursuit, pride or not. You're worth it.
Don't be appalled at his double standards; it's too strong an emotion. Just chuckle at his continuing idiotic behaviour. You know the truth about what a good and selfless parent you are. I can think of some good Northern phrases to describe his behaviour but they would be censored I'm afraid!
You are an extraordinarily articulate and strong woman and therefore I know that you know the answer to your question. If he wants to be back in the marriage he'll walk over hot coals and wouldn't let a thing like pride get in his way. Don't make excuses for his lack of commitment (at the moment) and think of lowering your expectations. If he's so dumb that he would put pride before his love for you, then why would you settle for that person. Shouldn't love be selfless at times, not selfish?
I don't know if I can explain it properly but it seems to me (obviously an ignorant outsider) that you are still being 'proactive' in trying to detach. You are still thinking too much about him and what he's doing and thinking. I suspect that detachment only comes when you stop trying to be active to the relationship. The only action should be your lack of action. Not because you don't care, or your being callous or cold, but because you have so much else going on that it's the last thing you want to use your energy on. Let the situation play itself out. Don't try to manipulate it or force it and find that inner peace that is not dependent on him.
For most of us on here, the odds are stacked against repairing the relationship. If you decide a change of tactic and revert to showing him how much you want and need him back, if the relationship doesn't work out I would put money on your mental health and self esteem being in a far worse state than if you continue to DB. We want to be strong if the worst happens, not a gibbering wreck.
If and when he gets a thumping whack across the head and comes to his senses, he can demonstrate a bit of good old fashioned courtship and pursuit, pride or not. You're worth it.
Don't be appalled at his double standards; it's too strong an emotion. Just chuckle at his continuing idiotic behaviour. You know the truth about what a good and selfless parent you are. I can think of some good Northern phrases to describe his behaviour but they would be censored I'm afraid!
Thanks Burned and Yorkie - I know, I am in now way detached. It would be easier I guess if that 2 years involved not seeing him. But I see him everyday. The constant contact feeds the obsession
Here are the small signs i am healing:
1. I do not worry at all about what he might be doing when he is not with me. The thought of another woman or women does not occupy my mind at all. 2. I am, most of the time, a fully functional human being, able to hold down a job, maintain friendships and have non H related conversations. At these times, I do not think about him at all 3. I am rediscovering who I am. I have too long been caught up in the material. I am at heart altruistic, caring and kind. I am trying to live by those values. 4. I can see him for the silly, vindictive little man he can be. And I can laugh at him. I still love him. But I recognise his triggers and know how he reacts when faced with one of those triggers. 6. His actions or words do not hurt me as much. This comes from having little or no expectations. I get annoyed more than anything now. .
Things I need to work on:
Boundaries and my own fear when it comes to enforcing them (DejaVu just wrote a beautiful post on facing her fears). Validating - my gut response is to shut the conversation down (fear again I guess)
yorkie - I can hear those northern phrases loud and clear - they are even coming through with a northern accent. Also good to hear from you. I was afraid you had felt strong enough to not need this site anymore, and was happy for you), but selfishly missed your common sense, tell it like it is approach.
I'm still here FS; watching and learning. Feeling strong and mostly determined. There are still lots of things I'd like to say to him; mostly not nice things, but I can't honestly be bothered with him. Still resent him every morning when I have to walk the dog in the rain so I call him a few choice words under my breath!
Apart from that though, I'm not sure there is any way in which my life has deteriorated with him not here. I'm pretty sure there are improvements. Perhaps its a 'honeymoon' period?? Money will be tight but there will be enough to house, feed and clothe us so we'll be good.
He continues to be a total flake and have let the boys down a few times but I've advised them to lower their expectations. He answered his phone to OW on loud speaker the other day when middle son was helping him load the boot up. Middle son was livid and said he felt totally disrespected. I helped him see the funny side that the relationship with OW is obviously on such solid ground that she was panicked because he had come down here for an hour. He should reassure her that I'm not going to jump his bones.
I do feel for the lads because they are embarrassed about his teenage like behaviour, so we just laugh. I think he's made the effort to see grandson twice since he was born 6 weeks ago. Last visit he took flowers for DIL and a box of chocolates for son. You have to laugh because eldest son is a Type 1 Diabetic and never ever eats chocolate.
I'm doing loads of research into planning a holiday for next year. Happy to go exploring on my own. That's a big thing for me; only ever travelled with someone else for 30 years. Current thoughts are West coast USA in spring, taking in Grand Canyon or East coast USA in the fall and maybe a trip up to Niagra at the same time. He wouldn't have done either of these things so it makes them all the more attractive.
I do still think about him casually most days, but only in a fleeting 'there's a man I used to live with' way. It's 5 months but it feels more like 5 years. I can't remember what it is like to have him here. I so had to give myself a stern talking to asking myself what did I possibly want him for at the moment. Lying, cheating, manipulating, borderline alcoholic with erectile dysfunction? Not really selling it? If he can turn around the first three, there are still other pretty major obstacles for him to overcome. I don't expect him to be able to do those things, or necessarily want to, and once i'd realised that, I was able to drop all expectations. I suppose what I'm saying is that I have reset the bar and it is pretty high. Great if he wants to reach it, but I'm not settling for less. In the first 2 months I would have taken him back at any costs; I promised that i would change and he didn't need to do anything. If I met him for the first time now, I wouldn't entertain him.
I still believe in marriage and in my marriage but I no longer have any expectation that we will fix it. I rather suspect that we won't. And I now know (thanks to DB) that I will be fine.
I'm ashamed of my early behaviour to be honest. But I can't go back and undo it. But then again, he has more to be ashamed of than me.
I've said before that it is so much easier for me because the boys are grown. I know how difficult it is for you when you have younger children. How do you think it will look 3 or 4 years down the line if you were to get divorced? Would he still come by as much as he does or would it be a more formal arrangement? Is there an interim stage that you could move towards in the shorter term? Conversely, you seem to be doing pretty well and if this works for you then exploit it. He's a very important person in the children's lives but to you he's free childcare. (I occasionally use mine as a free dog walker!)
I don't think you should be frightened of doing something because it might reduce the chances of R. You have to be true to yourself.
I take my flat cap off to you FS and all the others on here who have children still at home. It takes so much strength when it's slammed in your face every day.
Nothing wrong with being annoyed at him. Healthy feeling to have towards someone acting like a ****womble.
I'm still here FS; watching and learning. Feeling strong and mostly determined. There are still lots of things I'd like to say to him; mostly not nice things, but I can't honestly be bothered with him. Still resent him every morning when I have to walk the dog in the rain so I call him a few choice words under my breath!
You make me laugh. I can imagine you walking out on a cold morning muttering [insert preferred cuss word here] under your breath.
No, seriously, I don't hear any fear or resentment in your voice. Just a little annoyance at your H for putting you through this crap. I am very glad you are still here checking in on us. I am very glad that you are able to look on him with pity (and laughter) now. I wish we knew each other in real life. I think we would probably have a good laugh at our the idiocy of our H's behaviours. We could probably get through a few decent bottles of wine in the process.
Originally Posted by Yorkie
I'm doing loads of research into planning a holiday for next year. Happy to go exploring on my own. That's a big thing for me; only ever travelled with someone else for 30 years. Current thoughts are West coast USA in spring, taking in Grand Canyon or East coast USA in the fall and maybe a trip up to Niagra at the same time. He wouldn't have done either of these things so it makes them all the more attractive.
You should absolutely do this. I went away for a week in April to Morocco. It was the first time I had gone anywhere on my own. I landed in Casablanca at 10 pm at night searching for a man holding a sign with my name on it. There was no man holding a sign with my name on it. I was petrified. Strange country. Middle of the night. Sudden realization that I am a very small female. All I had was a contact number for the place I was staying at. It kept ringing out and my phone was dying. I sat there on a bench trying to work out what the [censored] I was going to do - by this time my phone had died. I thought I'd have to sleep on that [censored] bench and then book a flight back in the morning. But, after about 10 mins a man came running over waving his sign. I have never been so happy in my life to see my H's surname. The rest of the holiday was brilliant. I went to a yoga studio that had rooms you could rent attached to it. I did all forms of yoga and when I wasn't doing that I went exploring. On my own. Without any set plans. I would ask for recommendations from the teachers, hop in a cab and just go. I saw the most amazing things. Each night I wrote long emails to the children. I ran through each day in detail with them, describing the people I had met, the places I had been and through this rediscovered my love of writing. I came back happy. This was when I started to know that I was going to be OK.
The reality of my life soon came back but it was somehow not charged with the same emotion.
Originally Posted by Yorkie
How do you think it will look 3 or 4 years down the line if you were to get divorced? Would he still come by as much as he does or would it be a more formal arrangement? Is there an interim stage that you could move towards in the shorter term? Conversely, you seem to be doing pretty well and if this works for you then exploit it. He's a very important person in the children's lives but to you he's free childcare. (I occasionally use mine as a free dog walker!)
It would be a more formal arrangement. 3 - 4 years down the line I will probably have had to sell the house. He will want his equity and I cannot buy him out. One of the reasons he is so comfortable coming around is that he feels this is still his home/house - a different house will not feel like his home. I would also require more rigid arrangements around childcare. At the moment, it all works in his favor. I have to work around him and his work schedule. I cannot plan anything because his work schedule changes month by month. I have to pay for full time childcare which I don't use half the time. He would also have the dog when he has the children. I didn't want a dog. He did. At the moment even when he has the children, I still need to come home by a certain time each night to 'look after the dog'. If I go away on a long weekend (with or without the children) I have to organize and pay for a dog sitter. He has literally up and left and just assumed I will look after his home and his children and his dog when he hasn't got the time or the inclination to look after them himself. Keep everything as it was in case he decides to come home. Luckily he frequently has the inclination. But still means I am limited in terms of the plans I can make.
Originally Posted by Yorkie
acting like a ****womble.
That ^^^^ and the reference to the 'lads' made me laugh. Actually, quite a lot about your post made me laugh.
