will this thread last more than 5 days? (burned)

[FlySolo]

B - is your pay still going into the shared account? Can you have it paid into a different account and just top up the shared account as and when necessary?

[burned]

That’s the arrangement I’ve been encouraged to set up. I will. But here’s the problem as I see it. She is very thrifty and not at all prone to wild spending (that’s my role). I know that WWs are unpredictable but based on her past behavior, before and after BD, I have no reason to suspect that she will spend much beyond what I have tacitly allowed. Therefore it becomes a power struggle, the way she turns just about everything into a power struggle (maybe without realizing it). It becomes a test of my resolve to stand up to her. Almost like she is daring me. She has done things like this before, and I’ve never seen them for what they are until it’s too late. In fact if my current understanding is correct, at one point (when I discovered she had returned to OM) she asked “What are you going to do about it?” And stared directly at me with a fairly aggressive look in her eyes. I said, “Nothing, you told me I can’t control you.” And now after reading all these books and posts here about how women sometimes test their men to see how strong they are, and I took the approach of trying not to be a tyrant...I’ve failed all of those tests.

And then people say, no wonder she doesn’t respect you. But then they say, don’t do anything to get a reaction out of her. Or don’t do anything based on what you think she will think. And then I misinterpret that advice to mean, “Don’t do anything intended to cause her to think anything about anything” which may be one step too far.

I see this all playing out as a power game that I can’t win, mainly because she doesn’t (and I don’t) think I have the courage to follow through. Therefore I am a weak man who isn’t worth the risk because he wouldn’t be a good protector of the family we never built.

You see? I sort of can’t win. And yet that’s why it was so exciting to think that if I did something truly outlandish, like “taking back the house,” if I did that and stood there while she threw things at me, she would see the strong person I used to be, and suddenly her mind would be transformed. It’s a ludicrous rescue fantasy. And anyway she wouldn’t throw anything at me except confusing emotions and statements that make me doubt my sanity more than I already do. Physical pain I can handle; I’ve been mindlessly walking on a broken ankle for 6 months. But emotional pain is difficult for me. She knows it, and after BD we talked about how she wanted me to be emotionally strong so that I could carry her when she was feeling weak.

I can’t really win this and I know that “winning” isn’t the right way to approach it, but it’s just so darn tempting. I am SO much wiser now in terms of what I SHOULD have done during the M and right after BD. But I didn’t (and still don’t) have the strength and perhaps never will. And it’s too late anyway.

So that is how something as simple as opening a new bank account becomes a week-long journey of self-loathing.

[Yail]

burned, I had this idea this morning that I need to create a vision board of what creative turns my life might take next. Nothing will be off the table. Mine will include a small home with a bit of land but perhaps I'll have chickens and sheep. I've always talked about how "someday" I'd like to have a mini-farm type living situation. I've never taken actions towards achieving those.

OR maybe I have a 2 year job in Italy in a small flat. I really want to fully immerse myself in the language.

These are my future steps, not my now-actions (yet). Can you build what your next life might look like without your W in it? How would you choose to live differently? Don't just copy and paste your life as it is now into a different location.

Look further ahead because you're still very much living in the now and the past. Break out of your mental cycle. Later on you can build steps towards achieving the next version of you, but right now just get out of the mental cycle and allow your brain to live creatively. You and I both think very methodically, but I think we need to change that.

[burned]

Here’s an example of the problem I have. Last night I was looking at a magazine for people with off-road vehicles (not at all my jam) and there were all these photos of couples camping and having a nice time with their dog. That’s what W kept wanting to do, for years. What did I do? Came home from work, tired, grumpy, sat on the couch reading and avoiding her because I felt like I let her down. Years.

So now I look at all the fun things I want to do and they’re all the same things I (should have) wanted to do before. Like, one of the books had an exercise where you try to picture a happy home and what it would look like. Oh, it’s a cute little house in a quiet neighborhood with a dog, 2 cats, a 3-season porch where you can watch the thunderstorms...hey that sounds awfully familiar.

I mean seriously, my dream life looks a lot like the life I had. I was just starting to feel like I had “made it.” But it was just a little too late.

It’s like getting kicked out of school because you couldn’t add 5+5 and on the way home you find a piece of paper that says 10.

And then I just re-read the part you wrote about not copying and pasting. So then my task now is to envision a life that is different just because it’s different. Like, the house should be blue, Andy it should be on the other side of the street, and instead of a dog I should have a llama. I get the point, it’s about entertaining other possibilities. I’m still stuck on what I lost. And I’m not the type of person to do something different “just because.”

[Adam04]

And then people say, no wonder she doesn’t respect you. But then they say, don’t do anything to get a reaction out of her. Or don’t do anything based on what you think she will think. And then I misinterpret that advice to mean, “Don’t do anything intended to cause her to think anything about anything” which may be one step too far.

I know how you feel. The more I read, the more I learn, the more I see integrity, and standing up for yourself, doing the right thing, I am convinced this means (I have to find the courage in myself by myself) to tell her to pack up and move out because it's the right thing to do. Then I back up and wonder is this what everyone's really trying to tell me but people are allowing me to figure this part out on my own? Or am I just overthinking things again? I have this sense that people want to encourage me to grow a pair to "do the right thing" which I am assuming is making her leave, but they're leaving it up to me to figure this part out on my own. It's not like that is it? Just for now, detach, gal, continue to work on me and don't worry about getting into arguments with her or no talks of us, right? (then the thoughts of the kids, that's just extra to think about, doing this or that for them, but we can't use them as excuses to NOT do what we need to do...)

Sometimes it's confusing(maybe indicative to how bad I have NGS), and I used to be the type that would plan and plan and plan, do the homework, be prepared, but over time I stopped and thought I didn't need to be like that anymore. I still don't know what to say to her if she ever opened up and says something about OM. I think I would black out and say something really derogatory with GET the %$#$ OUT.

In going back to the quote, trying to be objective, outside looking in, I do agree not to do anything to "just get a reaction out of her" What's the point if you texted her right now and cursed her out because you felt like it and we may all agree it could be warranted, but what is the purpose, you'd be trying to get a reaction out of her. I don't think that's the same as standing up for yourself IN THE MOMENT. That's what I am referring to as being ready. I don't think anyone is saying you can't stand up for yourself, especially right then and there. It would be pointless if we call them up or talk to them and say, oh and honey, babyboo, shugarlumps, that thing 4 months ago, when you ripped my heart out, I want to revisit that and uh tell you to GET the #$%#$%# out now. I wonder if anyone has done this and how did/does that usually turn out?

burned, talking about happy homes... don't get me all emotional thinking about in 7 months this was supposed to be OUR dream home she is moving into with the kids. I hope it haunts her to be alone in it. It's funny in a twisted sort of way, when I empathize, it hurts a lot for a little bit, but when I think about me, my sitch, I feel empty inside. I wonder if I'm bottling it up in an unhealthy way... like suppressing it way down for later maybe?

The other day when I was at work, watching my life with W and kids play before me on my monitor, day dreaming, I felt like I was in one of them movies where the guy is running to catch the train. I'm on the right track, trying my best, but I'm always going to be 2 steps behind, arms reaching out, and I'm watching it slowly fade away into the horizon.

I promised myself one day I will go a whole day without thinking about her at work. I owe it to myself. One day I'm going to stop moping about thinking of some lost chance. I'm going to stop feeling like a victim. Maybe that day will be tomorrow. We shall see.

[Yail]

I mean seriously, my dream life looks a lot like the life I had. I was just starting to feel like I had “made it.” But it was just a little too late.

Listen, I had everything I ever wanted in my current life. Seriously. I was living my dream scenerio that I spent YEARs building with my wife and it came crashing down. I'm in as much pain as you are. My life was (bleeping) perfect. IT IS GONE in this current form.

So then my task now is to envision a life that is different just because it’s different. Like, the house should be blue, Andy it should be on the other side of the street, and instead of a dog I should have a llama. I get the point, it’s about entertaining other possibilities. I’m still stuck on what I lost. And I’m not the type of person to do something different “just because.”

I get that. I guess what I'm saying is I think we all have more than 1 dream way of living. I was living my #1. But there were other dreams too that I couldn't live simultaneously because we can each live only one version at a time. So find or pick a different one. Just to think about right now, that's all I'm asking. Have a daydream. I don't think we all have only 1 perfect way of existing. We may only focus on one during our lifetime, but dreams are dreams just because we don't create them.

Imagine we were able to live in multiple dimensions at once, or that some type of reincarnation exists, or that we could hit a re-set button and relive our lives with different choices at different points. None of us have enough time on earth to live out every dream we ever had. So find another one and pursue it, even if it isn't your #1.

Maybe start with a simple premise. What would happen if you chose not to live in your current town? I'm not saying you should quit your job or leave your local support system behind. I'm just saying, use the mental exercise to ask, "what if?". Just to know you have options, and feel confident that you can do whatever you like.

[burned]

Well, I made the mistake of reading some old text messages from BD (that stuff all happened via text; we’re both extremely conflict-avoidant). Threw me into a little tail spin. I remember when I said I’d never give up on her, she said, What if you still love me but want to live with someone else. So now that I’m looking at it from a WW perspective I realize that the only reason for her to say something that specific would be because it’s what she had in mind for herself. So that stinks. Not only did she cheat, not only did she leave, but she left me for someone else.

I’ve been waking up with panic attacks the last few days. Not sure why. Nothing is different except maybe that things are becoming more and more real. I keep thinking that this is as real as it will get, and then I’m always surprised by how much more real it gets, if that makes any sense. Spending a lot of time interacting with people around here over the break, I felt good about helping others but I think a lot of it is about hiding from reality and trying to soothe myself by telling myself it’s not the end, even when it feels so, so definite.

I keep reading and re-reading old posts, trying to stay optimistic. I know this pain is part of the process, but that doesn’t make it easier. And when I’m in the middle of it it’s hard to see how it will ever end. I hope I’m not stuck like this forever.

On that note, in terms of getting unstuck, I’ll be back at work today and interacting with humans and focusing on that. I have a little list of goals here, mostly related to self-care habits. I tend to ignore the most necessary basic things when I’m obsessing over a problem that I’m trying to solve. Sort of absent-minded professor mentality. W hated my inability to pull my weight with domestic chores. She felt that expecting her to do all that work made it seem like I didn’t respect her, that her time wasn’t worth as much as mine. But who mowed the lawn, vacuumed, etc.? I guess the chores she handled were the ones that had to be done EVERY day, not once a week. Anyway, I’m trying to improve those habits but it’s slow going. Nobody wants to marry a slob. Funny that when W and I got together I had just moved out from my parental home, and I was good at chores because I was proud of being independent. Then M happened and I fell back into my lazy ways. Caught W by surprise and she was never satisfied with my contributions. And I never realized how serious she was when she said it was a problem. So that was false advertising on my part.

What I’m learning about the goals lost is that it functions as a sort of pool of ideas that you can pull from. Like, what’s something I’ve been meaning to do that I can do this week that would give me a sense of accomplishment. For example, this week I will find a place where I can start volunteering. Add some structure to my non-working hours, and give something back to others in need, which is something I enjoy. That came from my goal of “being a better person,” sub-goal “do kind things for others.”

That’s all talk. Let’s see if I can back it up with some action, for once...

[MoveFrwd]

Part of me is wondering if it may be best for you to file for divorce. Not as a way of proving to W anything. OPr showing her anything. Or even proving to yourself that you are strong enough to do it.

More like I feel like you are stuck in this place where you are afraid to do anything because of the impact to your potential R. Its you are wearing one of those backpack leashes for kids being held by this concept of your marriage. Im wondering if by being DIVORCED, it will give you that freedom to be doing things in your life without mentally checking for any impact/movement as it relates to W.

If you were to write the story of your life, it feel like you are picturing it as one stream of conscience....one chapter where the story just plays out. I wonder if maybe having a DIVORCE would help you to segregate your life into chapters....or volumes. Where one chapter is your marriage. And the next chapter is your reinvention and emergence from the ashes. Sure, there will be tendrils from one chapter to the next, but it isnt and shouldnt be the main theme anymore. Unfortunately, I cant find or see what it will take for you to cut that tether and stop framing all of your actions in the light of your marriage.

For me, it was simply the space of separation and really throwing myself headlong into GAL. What will it take for you? Maybe it's fully committing? But on the other hand, it feels like you are afraid to fully commit BECAUSE the marriage is still lingering.

In my opinion, the best chance that you have to save your marriage is to completely forget about it. But how? Will it take actually BEING divorced for it to set in for you? Im not sure exactly....just food for thought I guess.

[burned]

In my opinion, the best chance that you have to save your marriage is to completely forget about it. But how? Will it take actually BEING divorced for it to set in for you? Im not sure exactly....just food for thought I guess.

This is sort of what I was trying to get at a few weeks ago when I was pondering it. Like, not only to get a sense of control by BEING the one to do it, but also to get it rolling because I think in my head it's this looming thing that has to happen before I can move on.

And yet here I am terrified of moving on, for fear that then I will have lost her. Today is particularly painful, for whatever reason.

And then that causes me to lose her. So I don't know, in terms of what SHE sees, I essentially have moved on. I post nothing on social media. I have no interactions with anyone who interacts with her. We are physically S. Interactions happen only electronically and deal only with the upcoming D or other managerial nuisances. With the exception of her occasional "I hope you're OK" or whatever garbage, which I don't respond to, there is no talk of anything emotional whatsoever. (Speaking of those, I still don't know what to make of them, my best explanation is that she's saying nice things just to satisfy herself.)

So from the perspective of DB, aside from what I'm doing for me, I mean in terms of what's forward-facing to her, I'm doing the "right" things and doing them consistently. It just hasn't made a lick of a difference, to the best of my knowledge. Of course it's too soon, so...what it has ended up doing is to deprive me of the short-term satisfaction I used to get from interacting with her. But it's a conscious choice in order to create the possibility for later reconciliation, I guess. Unless or until something else comes up in my personal life, I guess.

Edit, to add: as far as DIVORCE, which looks scary and ominous when it's in all-caps rather than abbreviated to "D," that's the part that annoys me the MOST. If this is all falling apart but it might come back together, I really resent having to go through that. Expensive, painful, publicly embarrassing, and so forth. So it adds finality, but it also destroys all decorum, if that's the right way to express it.

[MoveFrwd]

And yet here I am terrified of moving on, for fear that then I will have lost her.

I think this is key word for you.

Every time I see you take a step forward, you move the goal posts in your head and so it looks like youre going the wrong way or sideways. It's like you are scared to move forward because it FEELS like it is getting you farther away from her. And that is scary.

Change is scary. New is scary. Alone is scary. I get it.

But your other choice is being stuck.

Have you ever read "Oh the Places Youll Go"?
I feel like you are in "The waiting place"

Waiting for a train to go or a bus to come,
or a plane to go or the mail to come,
or the rain to go or the phone to ring,
or the snow to snow or waiting around for a Yes or No
or waiting for their hair to grow.

Everyone is just waiting.

Waiting for the fish to bite
or waiting for wind to fly a kite
or waiting around for Friday night

or waiting, perhaps, for their Uncle Jake
or a pot to boil, or a Better Break
or a string of pearls, or a pair of pants
or a wig with curls, or Another Chance.

Everyone is just waiting.

You have too much life left for that. YOU are too valuable to allow yourself to be there.

So what do you need to break free? For me, it was making plans, it was GAL, it was defining goals for myself and accomplishing them one by one. For me, DIVORCE didnt really mean much by the time the papers were signed.

For you, maybe that signature has meaning...

[It just hasn't made a lick of a difference

THink with a beginner's mind. MAYBE, it has been the best thing you could have done - as in any other option would have made the situation worse. If so, then your choices HAVE made a difference. But rather than 'getting better' youve prevented things from 'getting worse'.

Thats why I keep saying - you cant measure your progress based on HER. Or you WILL be stuck. For a long time. Possibly forever.