Trying to keep the faith (Part 2)

[FlySolo]

Hi Yorkie - you are always the voice of reason

I know I cannot 'win' him back, but my concern is I am pushing him further away. In some ways I thought the detachment process was 'passive', i.e. that we give them space to figure things out for themselves whilst we work on ourselves. That bit I get. The part that unsettles me is that this process isn't passive. It is actively doing and saying things (or not) which makes it seem I no longer care for him - and I don't mean as a H, but as a person.

An example email exchange:

H: Looks like [name of school] were wrong about D9 struggling with English {smiley face} {wink} (followed by a report from D9's tutor saying they want to move her up to the next level in English because she is doing so well)
M (after two hours): I have definitely noticed an improvement in her work and attitude.
H (straight away): I have booked her in to get her eyes checked on Monday. I am off so I can take her. Did you get the number for the dyslexia assessment? {her school says she should be checked}
M (after 2 hours): [weblink], [phone number] & [address]

An example text exchange:

H: What do you think of a TV for D12 for Christmas or is there anything else she might like {two links to TVs}
M: Sure. She mentioned hover skates.

--- later in the evening -----

H: She said these are the only things she wants [link to hover skates]. Do you want to go halves? I will keep shopping around
M: Sure.

They are all like that. He asks a question. I respond with as few words as possible. I only initiate to confirm pick ups and drop offs.

Our face to face interactions are no different.

I know what you're saying. It just doesn't feel right.

[harvey]

It's a conundrum. I had second thoughts at times about my approach, but ultimately I think I played things right. I just didn't have much of a chance. My approach has allowed me to move on quicker. You mentioned that you envied my sitch because I haven't been stuck in limbo. Well, you don't need to be stuck in limbo. You can decide to move on with your life. You can't control what your H does. I don't think you need to be cold or short. Just be you. I would continue to work on detaching. I would try to quit mind reading. Those two things really moved me along in the process. It sounds like you are doing well with GAL and 180.

[burned]

It just doesn't feel right.

And that's why people keep saying it's counterintuitive. It doesn't have to feel right in order for it to be the right thing to do.

As an outsider looking in, the texts/emails you described there don't give me the impression, at all, that you're actively pushing him away. They seem polite and sufficient, not hostile. You're not so cold as to ignore him completely when there's an issue that needs to be addressed. You probably feel like it's active rather than passive because it's so different from what you normally do, and the FEAR that he is moving further away leads you to misinterpret things.

[FlySolo]

You probably feel like it's active rather than passive because it's so different from what you normally do, and the FEAR that he is moving further away leads you to misinterpret things.

You are so right. This is exactly it. I fear his reaction and his retaliation.

I am not misinterpreting though. He knows how I write. It is (you will not be surprised to hear) wordy and full of banter. So his reaction to my sudden efficient use of language is to mimic. At least his mask of 'friendly' co-parents is gone.

You mentioned that you envied my sitch because I haven't been stuck in limbo. Well, you don't need to be stuck in limbo. You can decide to move on with your life.

I don't think I envy your sitch - you have gone through hell and back in a blink of an eye. No-one should have to go through that. I envy the finality of it, the fact that you can move on with your life. The fact that your W seems so determined and resolved to D that she is in now way leaving you hanging.

Despite what he says about not giving me false hope, my H has never known what he wants. He has never said he wants a D (it is always me who throws it in his face) and he is ALWAYS HERE. He has never once said we are done - the closest he has come to saying that is "I don't think we will get back together", whereas I have said "I'm done" to him at least a dozen times since this started.

But yes, I will stay the course and I will try and mind read less.

[Yorkie]

FS

It's so enlightening how we all see similar behaviours in our spouses. Mine also couldn't make his mind up. I fully believe if I hadn't found out about OW then he would have just carried on in both Rs. He left and came back multiple times, each time saying he wanted to work on the MR then taking up with her again when she contacted 'because she's like a drug' Perhaps it will run it's course, but it is nearly 2 years now, so maybe not. When I told him that I wasn't prepared to perform in this circus and there was no MR with her in it; he ran for the hills and hasn't looked back. Was he waiting for me to make the decision so he felt better, or just didn't want to hurt me in the early days? Who knows, but I took the decision that the inability to make his mind up was not a very nice character trait in him.

I may have been in a different position if I'd not done that. But it was the right time for me to regain control of my life. I don't think you or I are in Limbo per se. You are showing respect to the marriage by not rushing into finality, but in the meanwhile preparing yourself for what may happen. I think you're doing a great job of that. You will know if and when that changes and if you need to finalise things.

[FlySolo]

Thank you Yorkie. I am always grateful when you wade into my sitch - the rational side of my brain speaking with a slightly stronger and slightly northern voice. I half expect you to say "love, you need to get [censored] over yourself".

Another day ...

We all went to watch D12's football game today. The girls stayed with him last night and he picked me up on the way to the game. It was quite pleasant - we were talking through the whole game and we even laughed on occasion. Normally we put some space between us but we stood so close our arms were nearly touching. Not quite the way it use to be - he would have put his arm around me or I would have put my head on his arm - but at least we weren't a minimum of 2 feet away from each other. The only uncomfortable moment was when he asked me what movie I watched yesterday (D12 asked me as I was leaving to go out where I was going and I said "I am going to brunch and then to watch a movie". So when he asked, I told him. He didn't ask how the movie was or who with, he just wanted to know what movie I watched.

D12's team won (back to back wins ... unheard of) and she was in excellent spirits. I ran into D9's coach when I took D9 to the toilet and we chatted a little about D9's progress. They don't have a team for her age group, so she goes to training but doesn't play games. She has been playing for about 6 months and is coming along brilliantly. He mentioned that they are gutted that she can't play yet because she is one of the best natural defenders he has met. She is tiny but fearless and doesn't care if the other player is twice her size --- she will tackle anyway. He said she scares many of the bigger players. Not sure if I should be proud of this, but strangely I am.

I am so glad that H and I have always encouraged our kids to play sports and that H remains committed to this. It is important to both of us that our kids have 'whole' childhoods and we've done this by sending them to the best schools we could afford and also encouraging them (at times dragging them) to different activities. Some have stuck (sports) and some have fallen by the wayside (drama club, guitar lessons, piano lessons) but they will never be able to say that we did not give them opportunities. All the activities may have meant we had to sacrifice some 'couple' time, but this part of my M I do not regret.

After footie, we got a McDonalds takeway and came home and ate together. He then took D9 to her tutor and then (just now) is heading back to his flat. I will pick D9 up and then go straight into town with them to watch a movie and have dinner. We will park at his flat so will probably drop in for a cup of tea so he can say goodnight to the girls. In the morning he is coming to the house to pick us up and drop me off at the station and then take the girls to their respective schools. He will then pick them up after school, take D9 to get her eyes checked and take them to netball training. During the day he is going to get my tires checked and go to the local Nike factory to get some new trainers. He has offered to look for a new pair for me as mine are looking a little worse for wear.

If you have managed to read through all that ... yes, my life is very strange.

I am wondering where his "I need my space" and "I want to know what it's like to live on my own" BS is working out for him.

[burned]

I don’t know if this is helpful at all but I just had to “interact” with my W and it made me realize how hard it is to sacrifice today for what is worth having tomorrow. Today I just want to feel good about her and “us” but the result is that I act in ways that are not in my best interest in the long run. Respect, not letting her push me around, etc.

My outsider’s perspective on your sitch is that you aren’t doing anything to make yourself desirable and “hard to get.” He doesn’t have to choose between “space” and FlySolo. He has both. Sure, you get a ride to the station, and you don’t have to take the car to get the tires checked. But if your long-term goal is reconciliation, are those little things worth much? If you could “buy him back” by paying for a taxi and telling him that he doesn’t have to drive you anywhere, would that be worth the price? That’s an example and maybe you have figured out which battles to choose. You know best. But I’m seeing you do some of the same things you’ve seen me do. He won’t feel a need to choose you if he can get the milk for free, so to speak. Happy family events, no commitment. (Of course that may be for the kids’ sake rather than for his or for yours.)

Humans are very bad at delaying gratification and we tend to avoid pain (e.g., conflict) at the expense of future pleasure.

So I would just encourage you to ask yourself if there is anything you’re doing that works against you in the long run? Something to think about. Are you prolonging your own misery because it hurts too much to do what’s necessary now? That’s something we should be asking ourselves daily.

[DejaVu6]

Wow FS. It sounds like you are a married couple who just happen to sleep in different houses. Burned is right... he hasn’t lost much. BUT...I also know where you are at with respect to the kids and doing what is best for them. Carrying on like this is good for them in a sense as they have both of you and they get to see that you still care about each other. My concern is more about you and what this new normal is becoming. It seems like there is no OW currently so he spends his time with you. But if one all of a sudden put in an appearance and he was not around so much, how do you think you would deal with it? Would you shrug your shoulders (as you would if you were detached) or would it be BD all over again? And would it be BD all over again for your kids? I am certainly not someone to give advice in this regard and I have to say that I am envious of your sitch in some ways as I wish I saw my H that much and we were on friendly terms like that. My H is too worried about giving me false hope whereas yours does not seem too concerned about that. I don’t know. From your description (and that is all I have to go on), I would not be surprised if your H would be open to R but that he is too proud and possibly scared to bring it up. It may be cake eating but it may also be that as you did say it was you who pressed for him to MO and you are the person setting the emotional boundaries.

And just so you know... I still think your H is going to be one of the ones who wants to come back.

[FlySolo]

B - thank you, 2x4 appreciated.

It is a difficult balance this lovingly detached act we are being asked to pull. I sometimes sway too much in one direction, realise, and move too far in the other. I am glad there are people who are willing to, from time to time, tell me to pull my head out my [censored].

Re making myself desirable. I think it is difficult thing to put across here without sounding like an ego maniac but I am desirable. I am a mixed race, size 4 yoga mad female who looks about ten years younger than she is. I am stupidly clever and earn over six figures (in pounds). I am warm, kind and caring and I love my children. I am a catch by any stretch of the imagination. It's true that I forgot - the 6 months of "you are too skinny", "too muscly", "why can't you do even the simplest things" blah blah blah made sure of that, but the 7 months on my own has made me realise that I am awoafwl, and yes, he knows. Don't ask me how I know, but I do. This awareness might not be enough to bring him back to me, the weight of the past might be too much, but he knows my worth.

I have also made myself unavailable - I go out ALOT. I do not tell him where or with whom. Most of the time I don't tell him at all. If he is watching me on that stupid camera it would be driving him crazy. But this is not why I do it. I do it because I have to - otherwise I would be in my head all the time, and that way madness lives.

I am about as close to a woman only a fool would leave as a woman can be ... apart, of course, from the constant obsessing about my H.

[burned]

I am about as close to a woman only a fool would leave as a woman can be ... apart, of course, from the constant obsessing about my H.

And maybe there’s the key. He can smell it.

Objectively you sound great. I think the same things about myself and they’re mostly true. But the one thing we both have that makes us less desirable is that we both give the impression that we value something that doesn’t value us? And perhaps that indicates some deep-seated insecurity (I know it does for me), and others can detect that insecurity, and it makes them less confident that their own insecurities won’t overwhelm them and you (see my latest post in my thread for an interpretation of that). And so forth with all the weird counterintuitive psychology.

So the advice most of the men get on this site is to make yourself desirable by being unavailable. But be unavailable when he wants you. If you’re very rational and assertive then it might not make sense to act “coquettish” or whatever, but maybe biology trumps rationality, and some targeted seductive strategies like that might help? I am the last person you would want to ask about how, but I’m passing along some advice that I’ve gotten here.